Topic: Russian Gas ban - A problem for Europe or suicide for Russia? - page 5. (Read 14142 times)

Anyway it is good news that the possibility of a war between China and United States over Taiwan is avoided (at least for now). Only a few months back, US tried to provoke China by flying Nancy Pelosi to the island. So what suddenly changed in a few months? Perhaps the American politicians have now realized that the BRICS grouping is getting stronger and the idea of a common BRICS currency would destroy their own national currency (USD). Even staunch US allies such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have taken a neutral stance in the Russo-Ukrainian war, unlike the American vassal sates such as Germany, Japan and Korea.

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But the Armed Forces of Ukraine are systematically advancing in the south to the rear of the occupying Russian troops. Recently, the head of the Cheka, Prigozhin, said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine had deepened 23 kilometers behind Russian lines in the Zaporozhye direction.

In the context of missiles, they need to be fast to reach far and pass air defenses and avoid detection.

But you have a good point in the UAV scene, however the same thing I said above applies here: lack of technology. It's one thing to produce drone parts (like the engine for TB2 drones), it's another thing to manufacture a whole loitering munition with long range.
Something like Shahed-136 sounds simple on paper, but it is very complicated. For example ~3 months ago Turkey released their "copy" of Shahed-136 called Azab which looks more like a Chinese ripoff. Even though I haven't seen any videos of it to see if it can even flying, from the pictures we can clearly see that it lacks many of the Shahed-136 characteristics specially in guidance system and the launch system and possibly the landing gear.
This is while Turkey has a more advanced drone industry compared to Ukraine and is not at war.

We are talking about an aircraft that has to (1) fly on its own for a long time and in a long distance to reach its target thousands of kilometers far (2) avoid detection by radars, electro-optical and optical detection apart from on the ground observers (3) not be shot down easily by enemy defenses (4) and not be jammed by electronic/cyber warfare defenses in the enemy territory (5) reach its destination then choose the target on its own (hint mandatory A.I.) then dive in to (6) hit the bullseye because these loitering munitions don't carry big warheads they must be extremely accurate otherwise it's gonna miss making the whole thing useless.
These are some of the serious challenges off the top of my head. It requires a leap in technology of what I know Ukraine already has.

For example there are loads of quad-copters in Ukraine army. That tech is not extrapolatable!
There is AeroDrone that used to manufacture crop-dusting drones that can travel far and carry heavy loads and they have been cooperating with the army but their products were not built as a munition so they lack features number 2, 3, specially 4 and 5 and 6.
All the other drones I could find that were indigenously manufactured in Ukraine (Leleka, Punisher , Spectator-M1, ...) are all very short range drones (50 to 200 km) and are mostly for reconnaissance.

Considering that all the drones West has sold Ukraine also fall under the same short range category (Warmate-200 km, Switchblade-10 km, Phoenix Ghost-40 km, ...) I don't think West is going to sell the technology to Ukraine either.

600 km is categorized as medium range and it is not "deep". Long range which is "deep" starts basically at a thousand kilometers and above (usually around 10 km though).
But could you tell us the name of this "long-range" UAV so we can research it?

- Armored Personnel Carrier BTR-4. Used along all front lines. During the defense of Mariupol, the city defenders destroyed both terrorist manpower as well as tanks and BMPs using the BTR-4.

we can add the Sapsan missile system with a ballistic missile firing range of up to 500 kilometers.

We are two weeks in to the so called "summer offensive" from Ukraine. They have captured some 100 sq.km or so during the last three weeks in three sectors - Orekhov, Soledar and Lobkove. Meanwhile Russia is reported to be just 2km away from the outskirts of Kupyansk in Kharkiv Oblast. After thousands of deaths and loss of hundreds of tanks and armored vehicles, they just recaptured around 0.15% of the territory that is under Russian control. And before the offensive, they were making big claims of reconquering Crimea and Donbass.

You missed that fast and far are different things. The Iranian Shaheed-136 flies slowly, but its flight range is well over 300 kilometers. Ukraine does not have long-range missiles, but it has its own developments in the field of aircraft-type kamikaze drones.

long-range UAVs, which are already effectively tested in combat, striking deep into the territory of the aggressor, with a distance of 600 km from the borders, and much more !

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Sounds very rich and varied, Ukraine is doing very well, according to what you say. But the question is why they are still pressing the US and the West to supply them with more weapons, even as they are begging for massive arms aid to fight Russia. Even if they received modern American and European weapons, they could not improve the battlefield situation. Their most anticipated counterattack is also facing many difficulties and has not made any significant progress. I seriously doubt the capabilities of foreign weapons, let alone self-produced ones.

Sounds very rich and varied, Ukraine is doing very well, according to what you say. But the question is why they are still pressing the US and the West to supply them with more weapons, even as they are begging for massive arms aid to fight Russia. Even if they received modern American and European weapons, they could not improve the battlefield situation. Their most anticipated counterattack is also facing many difficulties and has not made any significant progress. I seriously doubt the capabilities of foreign weapons, let alone self-produced ones.

There are a few points to add here. In a very short time and under difficult conditions of military aggression by Russia, Ukraine has developed, created and is industrially producing:

- The Stugna-P - developed by KB "Luch", Kiev. It destroys SAU and helicopters. Easily destroys all "unparalleled" armored vehicles of the Russian Federation - tanks, APCs,...

- Neptun anti-ship system. The most famous use of "Neptun" is the destruction of the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the missile cruiser "Moscow".

- BM "Bulat" tank, with dynamic protection "Knife". A tank with excellent characteristics and the highest level of "survival"

- Armored Personnel Carrier BTR-4. Used along all front lines. During the defense of Mariupol, the city defenders destroyed both terrorist manpower as well as tanks and BMPs using the BTR-4.

- The PD-2 unmanned system was developed by Ukrspecsystems. "Eyes" of Ukrainian artillery ! The multi-purpose drone is designed for reconnaissance and can also carry a bomb load up to 3 kg. It can be delivered with a vertical takeoff and landing system.

- Alligator sniper rifle - 14.5x114 mm caliber rifle intended for attacking moving and immovable targets, fortified positions and bunkers, as well as armored vehicles (APC, BMP, BRDM).

- The Bureviy MLRS is a significantly superior system to the Uragan MLRS developed in the USSR.

- The missile system "Olkha". Smerch" class weapons, but with much better characteristics, including range - from 70 to 200 km

...as well as many more new and unique things, such as surface drones, which are wildly feared by the Black Sea fleet of the terrorist country, long-range UAVs, which are already effectively tested in combat, striking deep into the territory of the aggressor, with a distance of 600 km from the borders, and much more !

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But Ukraine itself is now developing many types of weapons that can reach the most remote corners of the European part of Russia. So expect a lot of fiery greetings from Ukraine in the near future.

It is not in the interest of the United States to open two fronts of conflict, especially since its allies are affected economically and logistically by the sanctions they themselves imposed on Russia to isolate it internationally and from the sanctions that Russia imposed on them. The Chinese-American rapprochement proves the weakness of the American position, and behind it the countries of the alliance supporting Ukraine.
Also, this rapprochement does not mean at all that China has stopped supporting its ally Russia, or that it has succeeded in overcoming the differences with the United States over trade exchanges that were raised during the Trump era. It's basically a strategic move.

In other news I just found out that the US expressed its support regarding China exerting force upon Taiwan, with some US spokesperson saying something along the lines of "The US recognizes the Chinese efforts and recognizes Taiwan as part of China" or something, can't really remember it but I saw it in this forum. It's like things are going down the shitter here and you'd hope it's only going bad for Russia but as it stands today it seems as if things aren't looking so great for US too. Makes me think that we're really about to be in one of the biggest recessions to date.

Please tell me if I missed anything but it seems like Ukraine's reach has always been kept very limited. To be honest I don't see how there can be a leap from subsonic 300 km range to supersonic 3000 km range. Developing the engine alone is a massive and impossible leap.

That's what I am saying. China will milk them like a cow. Russia has made its economy hugely dependent on Gas & oil and if they make another mistake and make their gas sells dependent on China, it's a double loss. China may open roads for Russia but that's where they will be milked. Either way, Russia will have to sell it very cheap, and their income will be lower while resources for China will be cheap. Win for China, loss for Russia.

And India? It's a poor country too that won't be able to offer them the prices that Europeans were paying.

Also, there is one thing: Who wants to strengthen the relationship with Russia but destroy with Western countries? Anyone sees the logical reasons why would someone do that and commit suicide? This war was a very wrong move, Putin probably thought that he would conquer Donbas and Lugansk and the West would close its eyes as they did on Georgia (2008) and Crimea (2014). But he failed, failed very hard.

I don't research too much about the military equipment of other countries, but I am also very interested in the war between Ukraine and Russia but have never heard of this news. Ukraine is begging for more, and the weapons they have against Russia are American and Western, they have almost no weapons of their own making or their own. Even with the weapons provided, they haven't been able to use them ideally yet, so focusing on weapon development at this point is not a smart idea.

That's very interesting, I didn't know that. As someone who is interested in military technologies I would love to read up on more details about this if you can share them. For example what type of weapons are we talking about here?

I'm theorycrafting but because Ukraine doesn't have the air superiority to conduct air raids, so it has to be from afar but certain technologies like the technology to manufacture MRCM/LRCM, MRBM/LRBM is not something you'd just come up with that easily without prior infrastructure and decades of development, also nobody is selling such technologies this easily to anyone least of all to a country at war where it could leak it to the enemy or third parties.

Edit:
I did some research and the only missiles I could find that Ukraine manufactures are very short range ones such as Kite-2 a subsonic cruise missile with less than 300 km range, OTPК a short range ballistic missile with a range between 50 to 280 km, R-360 Neptun a subsonic anti-ship cruise missle with very short range of 280 km.
Please tell me if I missed anything but it seems like Ukraine's reach has always been kept very limited. To be honest I don't see how there can be a leap from subsonic 300 km range to supersonic 3000 km range. Developing the engine alone is a massive and impossible leap.

But Ukraine itself is now developing many types of weapons that can reach the most remote corners of the European part of Russia. So expect a lot of fiery greetings from Ukraine in the near future.

The Kremlin's lapdog will say whatever the feeding hand tells him to say. Apparently he didn't notice the conflict either, so his suggestion is a waste of time, right?

There are nuances here, though. He probably really did not hear the work of the air defense, because :
1. The entire delegation of "Kremlin dogs" was sent to the bomb shelter. Ukraine is not covered by a "human shield" as they used to do in Russia.
2. The air defense system does not work "in the center of Kiev", its positions are in other places. I recommend studying how air defense sectors are formed to protect an object like a city.
3. 3-5 minutes before the first "arrival" in the direction of Kiev, a warning system went off all over Kiev, notifications and a call to move to bomb shelters and special protected facilities were sent to the cell phones of those who are geographically in Kiev.
In 3-4 km from my window, there was one shooting down which is fixed on a photo and video, from my window you can see the traces of air defense systems and be.open tells me, after reading an incomprehensible post, that nothing happened in Kiev, where I live and am physically present ))))

But be.open, realizing that all his "knowledge" is nonsense, decided to go the way of the classic representative of the Russian world:
- deny everything that is unpleasant, and the facts
- we invent everything that is pleasant and gives "greatness". And pass off as the only truth

be.open - well whence such sharp degradation of arguments and thinking? I even feel sorry for you. You have ceased to be an interesting opponent for dialogue, and have become a primitive translator of lies...

By the way the propaganda media of Russia, confirm the shelling of Kiev on June 16, 2023, i.e. yesterday...
https://russian.rt.com/ussr/news/1163126-vsu-reshenie-rossiya
https://ria.ru/20230617/spetsooperatsiya-1878872630.html
https://riamo.ru/article/649446/minoborony-vs-rf-nanesli-gruppovoj-udar-po-odnomu-iz-tsentrov-prinyatiya-reshenij-vsu
https://vz.ru/news/2023/2/17/1199493.html

Considering that there were no more arrivals and damage anywhere else, and the decision-making centers are in Kiev - you look very very stupid right now... Do you really like looking so stupid? : )

Judging by the bravado of the RosSMI , with the usual false assertion "all set targets have been hit", they destroyed General Zaluzhny 5 times  

Regarding "only at night" - yes, I confirm, it is so. Only at night, only on sleeping civilians, ONLY in dwellings. I've seen it all in Kiev... But I haven't seen or heard of any attacks on headquarters, military units or other military facilities. I haven't heard or seen it, and my friends who are now in Kiev units can't confirm that anything "flew" to them either. So yes - the most vile, despicable, cowardly kind of terrorism is Russian terrorism - cynical murder of peaceful citizens of Ukraine... I confirm it as a resident of Kiev, a direct participant of the events

By the way, I noticed a complete historical coincidence between Soviet propaganda and modern Russian propaganda. 1939, the USSR attacked the small independent Finland. Red Army planes bomb the peaceful city of Helsinki...  
"On the same day Soviet aircraft bombed and machine-gunned Helsinki; mostly residential working-class neighborhoods were damaged. In response to protests by European diplomats, Molotov claimed that Soviet planes were dropping bread on Helsinki for the starving population (after which Soviet bombs became known in Finland as 'Molotov bread baskets')."
USSR/Russia = lies, terrorism, meanness, cowardice. Shown in 1939, proven in 2023 !