Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 125. (Read 73646 times)

I think you should stop comsuming so much Russia propaganda if you're going to keep falling for it.

What? That's pretty rich and sad projecting coming from a man living under 24/7 dictatorship and fantasizing about anarchism. It doesn't surprise me that you don't know how democracy or social democracy keep working but i am not going to educate you about that because you can totally use wikipedia for that (if russia haven't blocked it again). I am sure you are been told it doesn't work because if Puting would rather suppress it China way. But i am not sure how that suppressing of opposition would would even differ from any other day under putinist dictatorship. So many people have been falling from russian balconies and windows that you should send those to the battlefield. It's insanely absurd how you in denial you have to be to believe the kremlin propagada anymore.

And yeah we very much made a calculated deal with NATO because we don't want to get invaded by you guys. That was something historical as we always were against joining nato. But now we see that as lesser evil so imagine how much more we disliked actions of Putin. We got bored of your bullying, fifth colonna troll tactics and fly overs.

More proof West planned all this a long ago

https://twitter.com/kennardmatt/status/1682089847698104336?t=24Jbai0p9CbPOmET-q9F8A&s=19

In other words, you yourself admit that democracy cannot defend itself by democratic means. A little earlier, you said that Russia is now in a state of cold war. Well, where does democracy come from in modern Russia if it is not effective in the face of external threats? What I dislike most about people is hypocrisy and double standards. You do not have democracy in Finland because you have lost your neutrality and have been drawn into the NATO military bloc. You live in a totalitarian state, simply because now you can't do it any other way. So don't tell me about the benefits of democracy, your vote as an elector decides absolutely nothing. Open your eyes and have the courage to face reality. Democracy is the shit that the aging hegemon in the face of the United States feeds its vassals from a shovel so that they remain weak and can continue to be plundered without hindrance. Russia has challenged the existing world order and its current totalitarian system is not a whim of Putin, but the only viable option to change the world for the better, to make it more fair and honest. You don't like it, but that doesn't stop the truth from being true.

As a Russian i am sure you know all about censorship, dictatorship and corruption. And looking from your perspective, i can totally understand why wouldn't you see democratic working governments other than a big lie, i mean that's all you had in whole history of your country. So why would others have better, right? On top of that your media gets confirming clips from borderline 5th colonna wannabes like Tucker Carlson and from our country equivalents of extreme right-wing putinists who also happens to believe that world is flat.

That's also why you see extremism as only solution for change. How ever you don't seem to have a clue that if your solution an anarchist only resets the system starting from a scratch again. Resulting to the outcome where men with biggest resources and most guns get to build another system with their band of criminals. And result would probably look something you are living under now.

Real working democratic governments come from adults doing the hard work, building a system that protects itself and all citizens of it, while giving voices to everyone. And sometimes those voices can be annoying, disrupting and even weaponized by other countries. But your system needs to be resilient to that. That's why extremists think that their voices aren't heard. Because even if their party gets elected it can't destroy the whole country even if it would have several terms. System and constitutional laws would prevent that.

Country in full scale war however are often under martial law. That's most effective way to keep your country running as democratic laws can take time to take effect and you need to make life changing fast decisions.

I am sorry if you feel that was too dumbed down but i feel like i needed to.

Russia also has elections. And in the progressive democratic Great Britain, Spain and Sweden, the monarchy. The problem is not the absence of elections, but the absence of a strong systemic opposition with a coherent program. Or take, for example, the United States, a stronghold of world democracy with bright, beautiful faces. In appearance, there is a real systemic opposition and a real turnover of power, with periodic rotation between Democrats and Republicans. But if you look at the program of the modern Democrats, it looks suspiciously much like the program of the Republicans of half a century ago, and the program of the modern Republicans, it looks very much like the program of the Democrats of half a century ago. In just a few decades, Democrats and Republicans programmatically changed places with a change of all the main vectors by 180 degrees. Modern public politics in democratic countries is show business. Externally and internally, the political course of the United States weakly correlates with who is now in the oval office of the White House and which political party now has a majority in Congress. Democracy is noodles on the ears for suckers.

In Ukraine, which is fighting for the ideals of democracy, now the strongest censorship and military dictatorship. Anyone who disagrees with Zelensky's course immediately goes to jail and is subjected to punitive methods similar to the fascist Gestapo of the era of the Third Reich.

Elections are overrated

Many Americans fled to Canada to escape the Viet Nam draft. Many Ukrainians fled Ukraine months ago... some having guessed what would be happening.

Gotta keep your eyes on what is happening, and be decisive while there still is time. If you are not decisive in a timely manner, somebody else will be decisive for you... maybe in ways you don't like.

Only thing proxy in this war is the fact that Ukraine is now defending the whole Europe.

It sounds like you haven't heard about conscription. And apparently you live in a country that never needed to fight a full scale war just to exist if you don't know how deserters are dealt with.

Do you know what happens to Russian deserters if they get caught by russia? Or historically to deserters of any country that's in full scale war with outsider invader? If you don't know, jail is pretty humane solution.

well, it's not up to them anymore. if they don't fight, they'd be considered a deserter.  i saw a video of a Ukrainian running toward Russian troops, he was congratulated because the war is over for him.

the proxy war's end game is not to win but just to prolong this war and seems no one ever asks they send a ton of money from the taxes of the people yet they are not winning. it's always too late when one realizes something.

It seems like every morning I wake up and read more terrible news about this war. Today it’s Ukraine’s ports being bombed. There are videos surfacing of captured Ukrainian troops saying they were threatened with jail if they didn’t fight. I don’t know how much longer we’re expected to pay for this horrible proxy war, but I for one don’t think Ukrainians should be forced to fight in it or face jail.

Montreux Convention, Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits have been closed off to warships for a while now. Lets attempt to limit the spread of propaganda. Not to mention that the area would be heavily mined, and no insurance company would cover any vessel, just the logistics of that would heavily outweigh the profit from the grain. If by some insanity a NATO country decided to enter a declared war-zone/mined area, article 5 would not apply to them and they'd be left on their own i.e. so no, Poland cannot send a boat there to be blown up and then expect NATO to get involved in WW3

Empathy and compassion, is what makes us human, lack of empathy is a hallmark trait of sociopaths and psychopaths (or perhaps in this case just propagandists stirring up hatred?). This is just a silly attempt at False dilemma, vast majority are fully capable of feeling sorry for innocent lives lost on both sides. Not even mentioning victim blaming (irrespective of how poor their choices appear to you)

It doesn't work that way. Russia announced the suspension of its participation in the grain deal and the traffic of commercial bulk carriers to Ukrainian ports on the Black Sea instantly dropped to zero. No security guarantees - no insurance - no traffic. To control the blockade, Russia has half a dozen submarines in the Black Sea fleet. So you will not see anything particularly interesting here.

This means that now European taxpayers will have to fork out at least $500 million a month additionally to patch up budget holes in Ukraine, not even getting moldy grain to feed Spanish cows in return. Shit happens.

US ships, seriously? Read at your leisure about the Motre Convention, there are no US ships in the Black Sea. As I imagine it, I told a little higher, not a single owner of a commercial dry cargo ship in their right mind will send their ship to Ukraine without security guarantees and without insurance. Maybe Turkey wants to take on such a burden of responsibility to ensure security guarantees? Does not look like it. It seems that the NATO countries are doing their best to avoid being directly involved in this conflict.

And what about the situation in Bakhmut? What kind of success does Ukraine have besides empty marking time? Can we better discuss the situation near Kupyansk?

I am an anarchist and my own master. If it seems to you that I am more sympathetic to Russia than Ukraine, it is only because I live here.

Ukraine can no longer help the world in the fight against hunger, she herself is in desperate need of various kinds of help. Russia can. The missile and drone strikes on Odessa are punishment for the attack on the Crimean bridge and another demonstration of the superiority of Russian offensive precision weapons over Western air defense systems. After three nights of combined strikes, the Ukrainian air defense on the southern flank looks extremely depleted, it seems the last wave of drones reached their targets without any resistance.

I think Russia will not need to make much effort to implement a naval blockade if the entire port infrastructure of Ukraine is smashed to hell.

Oh i guess all those Russian casualities of that that 3 day war (that's now been over 500 days) were part of this master strategy!
But you really are not coping well with reality. Russia is basically in cold war with the all the civilized countries. You know, countries that have elections.
Maybe they'll see the importance of trade agreements and having good relations after their things start breaking up and they don't get spare parts to fix them.
Now how are they going to manage to dig themselves from that hole? That will be interesting to watch.

Or russian media tells everyone that bridge is now a Russian submarine just to save face.

I guess bombing grain facilities in Odessa was your master's big plan to end world hunger?

Most of the world wants peace in Ukraine. But Russia is saving much of the world by bombing Odessa. How's that? It's keeping Ukraine from shipping poison grain to unsuspecting parts of the world, by taking out the Black Sea ports.

Poison grain? Yes! Monsanto poison is sprayed on the grain to protect it from pests, and as a herbicide, and to make it more easily turned into flower. But the poison is harming whichever people eat it. So, these nations should really be looking at Russia as their savior.


"Most Of The World Is Tired Of War" – PM Orbán Touts Hungary And Latin America's Pro-Peace Stance At EU-CELAC Summit

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https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/most-world-tired-war-pm-orban-touts-hungary-and-latin-americas-pro-peace-stance-eu
Although Orbán's pro-peace stance is a minority position in Europe, he has found broad support from nations with a similar outlook toward the war elsewhere in the world, including India, China, and countries in Latin America.

China, for example, has put forward a peace plan that Hungary has backed.

Within Latin America, there are a number of nations directly aligned with Russia, including Venezuela and Cuba, but more broadly speaking, there are many more nations skeptical of the Western war effort in Ukraine that have called for an immediate ceasefire.

Countries like Brazil and Mexico have also refused to back sanctions against Russia, arguing it is not in their economic interest.

Last year, Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador criticized the European Parliament's nomination of Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky for the Nobel Peace Prize.

"Regardless of whether we support one or the other (contender), how come one of the participants in a military conflict may receive the Nobel Peace Prize?" said the Mexican leader.

"Are there no others who are fighting for peace? Why not Pope Francis, the head of the UN?"

This year, Brazilian leader Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva said: "It's necessary that the U.S. stops encouraging the war and talks about peace. It's necessary that the European Union talks about peace so we can convince Putin and Zelensky that peace is in the interests of everybody and war only serves their two countries."
...

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Oh, I see. So if an US ship and a Turquiyan ship decide to go to Odessa, the RF fleet in the Black Sea will go there and stop them / sink them? And then nothing will happen and no retaliation will take place because "the RF has decided to blockade". Is that what you mean? Is that how this plays out in your mind? So no more "smoking in the wrong place" accidents as a result?

Anyway, this is more a marketing campaign more than anything else, possibly to distract from the situation in Bakhmut.

After everything what Russia already did in Ukraine I should be sorry about death of Russians. Hmmmm, no. But unlike some lowlife Russian scumbags I don't celebrate death of people when they hit apartment buildings, hospital or shop.

Oh really, Russia didn't even started seriously and they haven't took Kyiv in 3 days just because they don't want.

^
I will be interesting to watch if the blockade is able to defend itself because missiles and drones are flying everywhere these days and some of the ships that patrol the Black Sea might end up like Moskva.

The grain transported from Ukraine don't meet the EU standards anyway. I've read they're sending us a bunch of moldy, rotten shit and we keep buying it to show support. They need money after all.

Meanwhile, Ukraine seems to have lost access to the Black Sea. Physically, it is, but it is impossible or extremely difficult to use it. The naval blockade of Ukraine begins at 00:00 Moscow time on July 20, while nothing is known about the timing of the end of the blockade.