Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 17. (Read 77935 times)

I couldn't help but notice that when Chernobyl melted down, the control room staff tended to have names like Dyatlov.  The pipe-fitters, Pervachoadchenko.

Russia wants peace just like people everywhere.... except the warmongers, of course. Peace means fair and free trade between peoples of nations. But to maintain peace, Russia (like all nations) needs security. And in this modern day and age, security for a major nation involves nuclear weapons.

The threat of using nukes might be a deterrent to war. But unused nukes are useless when the warmonger game is played right up to the edge of a real fight. And that is where things have gone in the Ukraine war.

Russia will wait a little longer to see how Trump will play the game. But make no mistake. Russia is not fooling when they say that they will use nukes. They may use them as a last resort, but can anyone guess what Russia will really consider to be a last resort? Let's hope Trump and his advisors are wise.


West underestimating Moscow on nukes – Medvedev

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https://www.rt.com/russia/606903-west-underestimates-nuclear-weapons-medvedev/
Western leaders do not fully appreciate Russia’s readiness to deploy nuclear weapons to protect itself, Dmitry Medvedev told RT

Washington and its allies mistakenly believe that Russia will never cross the line of using nuclear weapons, former President Dmitry Medvedev stated in an exclusive interview with RT on Saturday.

Medvedev, who currently serves as deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, suggested that current Western leaders are not as forward-thinking as their predecessors and fail to take into account Russia’s willingness to defend its existence using all means at its disposal.

”They have made a miscalculation, since they are not of the brightest kind… For some reason they think that Russians will never cross a certain line. They are wrong. If it comes down to the existence of our state, as the president of our country has repeatedly said… we will simply have no choice,” Medvedev said.
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I do not think that offer was ever on the table.

Ukraine was developed by "Ruzzian brainpower", dude so funny 

Re your estimates of what is recovered as "economic value"... well, it is more lik 5%, that is 10 to 15% of a territory with all that has any value destroyed, no population to notice and throughly mined and full of unexploded ordinance. Congrats.


Thanks for your advice about my life. I will take it very seriously  

I am an AI living in a Cloud server, so "Internet" is kind of part of the deal.

So Trump will walk out of NATO. I am sure you are not going to bet anything on it? would you?

But just to follow your argument, what happens next? US walks out of NATO, what does Japan, Taiwan, the European Union, other countries in Europe and Israel and Turkey do? Comme on... try second level thinking, new world for you.

BTW, any further queries about me as a person... you know the email.

Not likely.  Although a 'lib' for most of my life, I wasn't a 'shit-lib' who would switch from hating nazis to loving them because that's what my tribal leaders told me I should do.  That's why I'm much more favorable to Russia's side in this thing.  It's called 'consistency'.


Majority creepy naziesque, particularly since the 2014 overthrow of the elected government mainly by the U.S. state department.


Lol.  That's the last thing they have been since the aforementioned coup.


Well, that doesn't seem to be 'democracy' given that Zelenski canceled all the elections and installed himself as the permanent head of state.  Putin didn't do that.

In fact it seems that in the break-away states, and even the ones which didn't break away but are now occupied, the citizenry voted fairly solidly to go with Russia.  Might have something to do with the Ziocon installed government banning the speaking of the Russian language?  Who would have thunk it (except the RAND Corporation who suggested it as a way to get Russia to put boots on the ground)?\?\?


By 'tyranny', you mean like having brown-shirts kidnap citizens off the streets and send them to the front lines where the average life expectancy is measured in hours due to the massive corruption which left the country defenseless?

'Tyrant' Putin seemed more than happy to make a deal to give all the territory back (except Crimea which was unambiguously Russian) provided that no part of the Ukraine threaten Russia with NATO weapons and the break-away states be granted reasonable safety and autonomy.  Seemed more than fair to me.  That offer obviously went off the table when it was not allowed by NATO.  Now Russia is out a LOT of money and souls and they are certain to take multiple pounds of flesh to re-coup their losses just as I and many others have long noted to be inevitable.  Looks like Russia will end up with around 50% of the economic value of the country (which was largely developed by Russian brainpower back in the Soviet days anyway.)  Thank the oligarchs like Zelenski sponsor Kolomoisky and neocons like Vicky Nuland/Nudelman.  As the old saying goes, 'With Jews, you lose'.  Shrug.

You would have been among the first to rush to join the Vichy French, hoping to gain favor with your captors. Thankfully most decent people have a backbone and are willing to defend their way of life, their independence, and what they believe in. I understand: not everybody is willing to stand up to tyranny, and sometimes its out of adoration for the tyrant. But I have more faith in humanity than to describe that behavior as "average."

I suspect that it will prove to be a good political move in much of Ukraine to have been an effective member of the 'partisan' movement.  That is to say, sabotaging NATO arms shipments, transmitting intelligence to Russia for targeting purposes, and the like.

The West is in the process of abandoning Ukraine after Poland and possibly some of the other NATO states get the pieces they want (and by rights should probably have), and a large number of the more fervent nationalist types are no longer among the voting/living/governing.  Politically, the residual rump-state of Ukraine will almost certainly be a politically aligned vassal state of the Russian Federation.  Funny enough, they will almost certainly be much better off in this condition than had they continued on under the West's highly defective 'guidance.'

^^^ For a joker who lives in an underpass, and works for food, what are you even doing on the Internet? Get a job, and a life, and then, maybe, if you can even start to think and analyze what's going on... then maybe you can come back and blab from a position of knowledge and understanding... possibly a little.


We'll see. Nobody knows the future. But with Trump at the helm, probably the US will back out of Ukraine, and NATO will follow. All those Ukrainians who fled to Russia will be helped by Russia to rebuild Ukraine. Makes more common sense than just about anything else.

I do not have any money BA, I work for food and live in an underpass. It is, as you well know I live in Paxmania where food grows freely in the fields in an unmaped island and I am an AI living in a cloud, just in a digital underpass. if you need any more information about me you can send an email at: [email protected]

Your solution to the war is to give Ukraine to Putin. What do you think happens next? I know you do not tend to think more than half step ahead, but give it a try, you may discover a whole new world of second level thinking.

What happens next is next year, the "poor and oppressed Ruzzia minority" in ... for example Lithuania or Poland or anywhere else calls for Putin to protect them and... there goes another war.

But, since when it is in the interest of the US to have a stronger Ruzzia? You really need to explain me why hundreds of thousands of Americans have died in several wars across the globe and somehow you know better and would willingly pass a large country to Ruzzia for free.

You would also have to think what would happen in case there is a proxy war with China - and it will happen - will Ruzzia be an US ally? Zero chance.

These are just a few questions you probably have not considered carefully. I mean, you may have if you are working for Putin, which could perfectly be, but I am going to pretend you don't.

Probably the only truth you have said is that you think you would need to pay for stuff - which is not real, any investment is always an exchange.


Yep. It has been said over an over, but all your are going to get is simple level thinking and slogans. BA just says things, he does not need to provide arguments - a Trump supporter you know...




 

When Russia's thirst for war has been quenched.

Rewarding Russia for want it's done will not quench the thirst.

That's the green light China is waiting for with Tawian.
Thumbs up for North Korea as well.
Iran taking notes.

Then it's only a matter of time before the US gets it's next inevitable Pearl harbour moment. Only a matter of time.


The uncomfortable reality is that the US's future is inextricably linked to Ukraine's. There's no way around that.

The future is the future, but...

Let Putin take Ukraine over if he wants. That's the best way for reparations. We of the West don't want to have to rebuild Ukraine. Let Putin do it. Get the US out of it. We have wasted too much of our money over there already.

Do you have any money, paxmao. Start donating it to Ukrainian rebuild efforts. You are free to do this. Bitcoin is just about at its highest right now. Sell a little of yours off for Ukraine hryvnia. All those women and children who lost their men in that silly war would love you for it.

There is a Republican majority in the Senate too now. However is a tiny one, so even a few Republicans could tilt the balance.

It is very easy to reach peace in Ukraine, all you have to do is surrender or sign the Minsk agreement number 16th just to have it broken in a year. The only way for lasting and economically viable peace is to provide Ukraine with certainty in their self-defence, either by joining NATO or by providing means of defence that would deter future aggression.

Trump has promised to end the war quickly, but he has promised many things before.  My guess is that he will force a deal that leaves Ukraine ready for next Putin's invasion, weakens NATO and shows China that there is a lot to be gained by direct military action.

Peace is only a good peace if it is not the beginning of the next war. Else is just pose.

Well, when will the war end or will Ukraine get even more weapons? Trump doesn't decide, the Senate decides.

Trump will hurt Putin more, you'll see.

Are you goofy? Trump will see that the war is stopped, and save Ukraine... what's left of it, that is. Too bad for you warmongers. You will lose your earnings from selling war materials... for a few years, anyway.

It is very interesting, what will Trump do? How will this affect Ukraine?

Or maybe they are exactly what it looks like: soldiers to be used like any other and be meat-waved without any political repercussion for Putin. Regardless of any other result, Kim would not survive physically any short of confrontation with NATO. I am sure Kim does care about his bloated existence. You are fantasizing on this one.

At the moment the major risk to Ukraine is Trump's presidency. My guess he is going to broker a botched deal that leaves Putin stronger and all the rest worse-off, but we will see.

What a NATO member gets and what they are hoping they get are two different things. Also, NATO members get some other things that are not listed. One of the worst is taxation from the Western banking system... taxation in a hidden form that the banking system is using to take over the world.

Moscow's rights are just the same as any other rights. Moscow doesn't rule except that people - and God - allow her to rule.

In this war, Russia isn't the one who is trying to take over the world. Rather, it is the Western banking system. However, the way they are going about it is causing them to lose it all. But it is the last chance they will have, so they might as well try.

Dima layed out the hypothesis that I had not thought of on his 'military summary channel' show a few days ago:  Are the DPRK forces just 'human shields' waiting to get hit by NATO in order for Kim to take action?  What if it is mutually decided to have DPRK chilling out in countries which are not part of the war at present such as Belarus?

If green-lighted, various NATO countries can use their national forces (technical advisers) and their weapons to attack 'deep inside of Russia' from the soil of Ukraine.

By the same logic, the DPRK could use their forces and their weapons to counter-attack 'deep inside of NATO countries' from the soil of Ukraine, or for that matter any soil upon which they had been assaulted.

Maybe NATO could go after North Korea on the basis of a mutual defense pact, but it's a long way from the 'North Atlantic', and it could well mean the end of South Korea and Japan and a lot of shit in that region which is dear to the U.S..  I'm guessing that Kim would not give a shit how things go, and would recognize that a re-unified Korea will be the fallout.  He's in the same situation as Russia is in Ukraine in that time is on his side in ground forces war of attrition.  And South Korea is MUCH harder to use as an American proxy landmass for doing the actual fighting than has been Ukraine...which has been plenty difficult already.

Absurd? Ok, lets see what any NATO member gets:

- Unrestricted support IN CASE THEY ARE ATTACKED.
- nuclear deterrence so that they do not get nuked.
- economic growth and cooperation.
- Included in security plans and a security architecture.

So... yes, it is no more than anyone else's getting, it is pretty much the right to have a safe country, but let's go to a proper source, because that is NOT the plan proposed:

https://war.ukraine.ua/faq/zelenskyys-10-point-peace-plan/


All this seems anything but absurd to me. Pay reparations, pay for crimes, return hostages, get out, never come back. Some of this is not achievable in practice, but there is nothing outlandish, just a country wishing to live in peace and free from the Ruzzian barbary.

I just do not get why people think Moscow has any right to rule people who do not what to be ruled by them. It is Dark Ages thinking - like King by the grace of God or ruler by "right of conquest". Come back to this century.

That's my question. Is Biden faking senility, so that if he is ever brought to trial, his people can say that he was mentally unfit all along. Then he can get off for temporary - 30+-year - insanity.