Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 12. (Read 75276 times)

The point I was trying to make was surrendering to nuclear blackmail is never a rational option to take.

Everybody knows how ferociously a cornered rat will fight. When they know their end is near, they have nothing to lose, anyway. So they fight all the harder.

Any nuclear nation that is cornered - like NATO has been trying corner Russia, and the US using Ukraine - will use nukes if they feel that there is no other option.

I'm sure you would like to forget the word for obvious reasons, but Azovstal was one of the largest steel facilies around.  Among the reasons, the region is fairly rich in raw materials.

You may or may not have noticed, but the Russians are taking these man-made mountains at an increasingly high rate these days.  Do you know how these mountains got there?  They are the waste heaps resulting from mining minerals out of the ground and performing various production processes.  Many are now fully under Russian control and almost certain to remain that way for some time.

As for development, we'll see who has money after the collapse of the Western debt-backed monetary system which seems to be coming right up.  Russia is reasonable rich in replacement potential; gold, bitcoin, credibility, etc.  The fly in the ointment is that the Larry Fink types have been planning this thing out for decades and de-industrializing the West for that length of time.  These parasites are as ready as they can be to jump hosts.  Fink is no fool and very possibly will end up in control of Ukraine's resources no matter who wins the ground battles.  Hopefully he didn't get things perfectly right and ends up like Mikhail Khodorkovsky; getting his teeth kicked out in some Russian or Chinese gulag.

As said, you are getting 10 to 15% of a country with nearly anything on it destroyed. It is not particularly minerally rich compared to any other place, at most is agriculturaly interesting, but all that requires two things to get from the ground into the bank: people and investment - and de-mining. The type of things that the Ruzzian "brainpower"   does not have and will not have in quite a few years.


Nuclear weapons are there just to deter the use of nuclear weapons by others. Using them against a non-nuclear power would make even China re-think their stance. BTW, there is little chance of using nukes in Ukraine without affecting both Russia and NATO countries.

Odds are that if Putin is serious about using nukes, why would he give any warning? The nukes will simply fly. Some governments of the world will know it is happening, almost immediately. But most of us will never know until we see the mushroom clouds off in the distance, or until we lose our Facebook. The rest of us will be instantly headed for Heaven or Hell.

Hypothetical Question:
Let's say Putin formally announces tomorrow, to the world, that he's had enough and he want all Ukrainian troops to surrender by 00:00 hours, January 1st 2025. If they don't, nukes will start flying in a westward direction. He also adds "I'm not bluffing."

Nuclear blackmail.

So how would the world respond? There is only 2 choices available:
1) Oh okay, please don't. Yes Sir, right away. Whatever you say.
2) Call his bluff.

Option 1 - Well, once your gone down this rabbit hole there's no turning back. Your good as dead anyway, suicidal. North Korea and Iran will be taking notes and looking to replicate. Will replicate.
Option 2 - You may be dead, then again maybe not.

So the logical option is to pick no 2, as option 1 isn't a world worth living in anyway.

I couldn't help but notice that when Chernobyl melted down, the control room staff tended to have names like Dyatlov.  The pipe-fitters, Pervachoadchenko.

Russia wants peace just like people everywhere.... except the warmongers, of course. Peace means fair and free trade between peoples of nations. But to maintain peace, Russia (like all nations) needs security. And in this modern day and age, security for a major nation involves nuclear weapons.

The threat of using nukes might be a deterrent to war. But unused nukes are useless when the warmonger game is played right up to the edge of a real fight. And that is where things have gone in the Ukraine war.

Russia will wait a little longer to see how Trump will play the game. But make no mistake. Russia is not fooling when they say that they will use nukes. They may use them as a last resort, but can anyone guess what Russia will really consider to be a last resort? Let's hope Trump and his advisors are wise.


West underestimating Moscow on nukes – Medvedev

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https://www.rt.com/russia/606903-west-underestimates-nuclear-weapons-medvedev/
Western leaders do not fully appreciate Russia’s readiness to deploy nuclear weapons to protect itself, Dmitry Medvedev told RT

Washington and its allies mistakenly believe that Russia will never cross the line of using nuclear weapons, former President Dmitry Medvedev stated in an exclusive interview with RT on Saturday.

Medvedev, who currently serves as deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, suggested that current Western leaders are not as forward-thinking as their predecessors and fail to take into account Russia’s willingness to defend its existence using all means at its disposal.

”They have made a miscalculation, since they are not of the brightest kind… For some reason they think that Russians will never cross a certain line. They are wrong. If it comes down to the existence of our state, as the president of our country has repeatedly said… we will simply have no choice,” Medvedev said.
...

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I do not think that offer was ever on the table.

Ukraine was developed by "Ruzzian brainpower", dude so funny 

Re your estimates of what is recovered as "economic value"... well, it is more lik 5%, that is 10 to 15% of a territory with all that has any value destroyed, no population to notice and throughly mined and full of unexploded ordinance. Congrats.


Thanks for your advice about my life. I will take it very seriously  

I am an AI living in a Cloud server, so "Internet" is kind of part of the deal.

So Trump will walk out of NATO. I am sure you are not going to bet anything on it? would you?

But just to follow your argument, what happens next? US walks out of NATO, what does Japan, Taiwan, the European Union, other countries in Europe and Israel and Turkey do? Comme on... try second level thinking, new world for you.

BTW, any further queries about me as a person... you know the email.

Not likely.  Although a 'lib' for most of my life, I wasn't a 'shit-lib' who would switch from hating nazis to loving them because that's what my tribal leaders told me I should do.  That's why I'm much more favorable to Russia's side in this thing.  It's called 'consistency'.


Majority creepy naziesque, particularly since the 2014 overthrow of the elected government mainly by the U.S. state department.


Lol.  That's the last thing they have been since the aforementioned coup.


Well, that doesn't seem to be 'democracy' given that Zelenski canceled all the elections and installed himself as the permanent head of state.  Putin didn't do that.

In fact it seems that in the break-away states, and even the ones which didn't break away but are now occupied, the citizenry voted fairly solidly to go with Russia.  Might have something to do with the Ziocon installed government banning the speaking of the Russian language?  Who would have thunk it (except the RAND Corporation who suggested it as a way to get Russia to put boots on the ground)?\?\?


By 'tyranny', you mean like having brown-shirts kidnap citizens off the streets and send them to the front lines where the average life expectancy is measured in hours due to the massive corruption which left the country defenseless?

'Tyrant' Putin seemed more than happy to make a deal to give all the territory back (except Crimea which was unambiguously Russian) provided that no part of the Ukraine threaten Russia with NATO weapons and the break-away states be granted reasonable safety and autonomy.  Seemed more than fair to me.  That offer obviously went off the table when it was not allowed by NATO.  Now Russia is out a LOT of money and souls and they are certain to take multiple pounds of flesh to re-coup their losses just as I and many others have long noted to be inevitable.  Looks like Russia will end up with around 50% of the economic value of the country (which was largely developed by Russian brainpower back in the Soviet days anyway.)  Thank the oligarchs like Zelenski sponsor Kolomoisky and neocons like Vicky Nuland/Nudelman.  As the old saying goes, 'With Jews, you lose'.  Shrug.

You would have been among the first to rush to join the Vichy French, hoping to gain favor with your captors. Thankfully most decent people have a backbone and are willing to defend their way of life, their independence, and what they believe in. I understand: not everybody is willing to stand up to tyranny, and sometimes its out of adoration for the tyrant. But I have more faith in humanity than to describe that behavior as "average."

I suspect that it will prove to be a good political move in much of Ukraine to have been an effective member of the 'partisan' movement.  That is to say, sabotaging NATO arms shipments, transmitting intelligence to Russia for targeting purposes, and the like.

The West is in the process of abandoning Ukraine after Poland and possibly some of the other NATO states get the pieces they want (and by rights should probably have), and a large number of the more fervent nationalist types are no longer among the voting/living/governing.  Politically, the residual rump-state of Ukraine will almost certainly be a politically aligned vassal state of the Russian Federation.  Funny enough, they will almost certainly be much better off in this condition than had they continued on under the West's highly defective 'guidance.'

^^^ For a joker who lives in an underpass, and works for food, what are you even doing on the Internet? Get a job, and a life, and then, maybe, if you can even start to think and analyze what's going on... then maybe you can come back and blab from a position of knowledge and understanding... possibly a little.


We'll see. Nobody knows the future. But with Trump at the helm, probably the US will back out of Ukraine, and NATO will follow. All those Ukrainians who fled to Russia will be helped by Russia to rebuild Ukraine. Makes more common sense than just about anything else.

I do not have any money BA, I work for food and live in an underpass. It is, as you well know I live in Paxmania where food grows freely in the fields in an unmaped island and I am an AI living in a cloud, just in a digital underpass. if you need any more information about me you can send an email at: [email protected]

Your solution to the war is to give Ukraine to Putin. What do you think happens next? I know you do not tend to think more than half step ahead, but give it a try, you may discover a whole new world of second level thinking.

What happens next is next year, the "poor and oppressed Ruzzia minority" in ... for example Lithuania or Poland or anywhere else calls for Putin to protect them and... there goes another war.

But, since when it is in the interest of the US to have a stronger Ruzzia? You really need to explain me why hundreds of thousands of Americans have died in several wars across the globe and somehow you know better and would willingly pass a large country to Ruzzia for free.

You would also have to think what would happen in case there is a proxy war with China - and it will happen - will Ruzzia be an US ally? Zero chance.

These are just a few questions you probably have not considered carefully. I mean, you may have if you are working for Putin, which could perfectly be, but I am going to pretend you don't.

Probably the only truth you have said is that you think you would need to pay for stuff - which is not real, any investment is always an exchange.


Yep. It has been said over an over, but all your are going to get is simple level thinking and slogans. BA just says things, he does not need to provide arguments - a Trump supporter you know...




 

When Russia's thirst for war has been quenched.

Rewarding Russia for want it's done will not quench the thirst.

That's the green light China is waiting for with Tawian.
Thumbs up for North Korea as well.
Iran taking notes.

Then it's only a matter of time before the US gets it's next inevitable Pearl harbour moment. Only a matter of time.


The uncomfortable reality is that the US's future is inextricably linked to Ukraine's. There's no way around that.

The future is the future, but...

Let Putin take Ukraine over if he wants. That's the best way for reparations. We of the West don't want to have to rebuild Ukraine. Let Putin do it. Get the US out of it. We have wasted too much of our money over there already.

Do you have any money, paxmao. Start donating it to Ukrainian rebuild efforts. You are free to do this. Bitcoin is just about at its highest right now. Sell a little of yours off for Ukraine hryvnia. All those women and children who lost their men in that silly war would love you for it.

There is a Republican majority in the Senate too now. However is a tiny one, so even a few Republicans could tilt the balance.

It is very easy to reach peace in Ukraine, all you have to do is surrender or sign the Minsk agreement number 16th just to have it broken in a year. The only way for lasting and economically viable peace is to provide Ukraine with certainty in their self-defence, either by joining NATO or by providing means of defence that would deter future aggression.

Trump has promised to end the war quickly, but he has promised many things before.  My guess is that he will force a deal that leaves Ukraine ready for next Putin's invasion, weakens NATO and shows China that there is a lot to be gained by direct military action.

Peace is only a good peace if it is not the beginning of the next war. Else is just pose.

Well, when will the war end or will Ukraine get even more weapons? Trump doesn't decide, the Senate decides.

Trump will hurt Putin more, you'll see.

Are you goofy? Trump will see that the war is stopped, and save Ukraine... what's left of it, that is. Too bad for you warmongers. You will lose your earnings from selling war materials... for a few years, anyway.