Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 189. (Read 73776 times)

It's kinda surprising that they admitted significant casualties ("Moskva" sailors say hi from their new submarine assignments).


Aside from the convulsively absurd revenge propaganda (we destroyed the evil HIMARS! and killed 100500 Ukrainians!), Russian MOD also figured out who's responsible for the Makiivka attack... it's the soldiers themselves because they used cell phones and Ukrainians triangulated them. The relatives of the deceased must be thrilled with these findings. As if cramming so many people, vehicles, and ammunition into one building wouldn't be noticeable from any drone or satellite... but they can't possibly blame their glorious generals of being so negligent after months of Ukrainian strikes on ammunition depots etc, can they.

Oh, and some deluded Russian "senator" seems to imply that this attack is a NATO-supported crime against Russian citizens. If even a "senator" is not aware that they're at war, then what can we expect from ordinary consumers of Kremlin fairy tales like Veleor.

Now it's already 89 dead and probably rest few hundreds will be announced as gone without any sign
BTW, Russia already made ''revenge'' for it. They attacked ice arena Altair in Druzhkivka. Maybe some of you already saw this video when moment of attack was caught live on French TV:
https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1610044712215257088
Guess what Russia said about it. They destroyed 2 HIMARS systems, 4 RM-70 Vampire systems and killed 120 Ukrainian troops:
https://meduza.io/news/2023/01/03/minoborony-rf-otchitalos-ob-udare-po-skopleniyu-voennoy-tehniki-v-druzhkovke-ukrainskie-vlasti-soobschali-chto-tam-razrushili-ledovuyu-arenu-altair
Here is ice arena looks after attack. I don't see any signs that it was base of military. If things that Russia says would be true, I think that this place would look similar like school in Makeevka after attack.
https://t.me/uniannet/85434
BTW, about destroyed HIMARS. Russia now already had destroyed 27 HIMARS, when Ukraine had only 20:
https://imgur.com/3EsVRw0
So, now Russia destroyed more HIMARS than Ukraine had and Ukraine somehow still manage to destroy occupants using it. It's material for Veleor who said that Russian Defense ministry and state owned media never caught lying.

Ordinary day in Ukraine



BTW it seems that a HIMARS strike aimed (probably) to a munitions depot has also killed between 62 (official RF figure) and 300 (Ukrainian estimate) soldiers.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-shells-donetsks-makiivka-hitting-military-quarters-officials-2023-01-01/



Apparently, the RF Chief Psychos think that it is a great idea to make their young unprepared and sometime enslaved soldiers sleep on top of the gun-shells, just in case someone tries to steal them I guess.

Any RF soldier must know how little they care about them dying - there is a lot of people in the RF that are spendable to them.

Ordinary day in Ukraine

Congratulations! You have built the post with the largest length to rational thinking ratio of the thread. I could even say one of the most propagandistic despite the lack of style and effectiveness.

Most of you assertions are wishful thinking... "when Ukraine runs out...", "when Ukrainians realize this or that"... As I said in many posts, patience is important for people who think like you. You can spend lots of time waiting for all of that to happen. Or you whole life waiting for it sometimes.

As of now, none of the facts show any ability from the RF to reach objectives others than wanton destruction and other war crimes and crimes against humanity. No military achievement that could remotely match the death toll and the economic impact for the present and the future.

Keep up the trolling, you are doing a favour to Ukraine.


be, the GDP of Russia is equivalent to the one of just Italy. The manufacturing capacity of Europe is and order of magnitude above the RF. There is no scenario whatsoever in which the RF gains any short of control over Europe, even if the US decided to do nothing.

GPD percentages are effectively what you need to pay for a war. Europe has no shortage of manufacturing capacity, several times in excess of anything the RF may dream of. If you are arguing that the RF could win a war of attrition, you are severely mistaken. These are hard data and facts.

Apart from data, your assertions collide with reality. The RF advance was slowed, stopped and then turned back because the RF does not have the logistics to carry on with the war.

Before Iraq attacked them, Kuwait had (by invested dollars) one of strongest militaries in the world.
However, they all flee once Iraq attacked. You can't buy courage and will to fight

I don't recall ever saying "a little more and the victory of Ukraine is not far off", but I'm guessing that asking you for quote would be too expensive for 15 rubles.

Anyway, the fact that Ukrainians are defending against the attempted genocide doesn't magically make it not genocide. Neither does the possibility of some or many of them surviving the war, win or lose. It is the intent that defines genocide and the intent has been clear throughout, from the Ukrainian state declared as illegitimate by Putin himself to defining every non-putinist Ukrainian as "nazi" to the ongoing missile attacks against civilian population. "They only killed a few thousand civilians" is a weak excuse, I doubt it's gonna fly when the perps face the tribunal.

Now it’s like the global financial crisis, poke your finger at any country and see how well things are going, everywhere you will find problems similar or even worse than in Russia - and this is without any sanctions. It's just the nature of the moment.
Medvedev was definitely wrong in at least one point of his forecast - having predicted the possible collapse of the Bretton Woods monetary system, he did not take into account that it collapsed back in 1976.

Let's take a sober look at things and call them by their proper names. How many people actually froze to death or died of thirst from interruptions in the supply of heat, water and electricity due to Russian missile attacks on the power grid? One hundred? Thousand? No, the death toll is close to zero. What kind of genocide is this? Common everyday inconvenience. Don't be dramatic.

I just realistically assess the situation, it seems you are dreaming and fantasizing here. Europe is now almost completely demilitarized, its armories are almost empty. She would be happy to increase the supply of military aid to Ukraine, but she cannot. And an increase in military spending by 1% of GDP does not solve this issue in the near or even more distant future, because GDP percentages cannot shoot. And Europe cannot accelerate military production, because it is in a state of severe energy shortage and is more concerned about how to survive this winter on the accumulated gas reserves in storage facilities, and then how to fill these storage facilities again by next winter. Europe is not able to defend itself, it is forced to rely on an external security guarantor. Today it is the USA, tomorrow it may be Russia. Europe will fall under anyone who turns out to be stronger and spreads her legs herself. After the Second World War, this position is familiar to her.

Nonsense. It is not Russia, but Zelensky who is engaged in the genocide of the Ukrainian people. It is he who consistently pursues a policy of "fighting to the last Ukrainian" and it is he who has legally banned himself from peace negotiations with Russia. This is the genocide of the Ukrainian people. Even if Zelensky achieves success in his strategy and continues his senseless war without a chance of success until the last Ukrainian, the Ukrainian people will not completely disappear from the face of the earth, if only because there are several million refugees from Ukraine in Russia and no one is oppressing them here.

I am surprised by the schizoid behavior of your behavior here and the behavior of your supporters in a virtual uncompromising struggle against Russian aggression. You are almost simultaneously boasting about the numerous successes of Ukraine on the battlefields, which, they say, a little more and the victory of Ukraine is not far off. And while complaining about the genocide. Decide already, is Ukraine winning or is it being systematically destroyed?

The attack on the Ukrainian people with the intent of erasing them as a nation and/or destroying their country. That kind of genocide. It's been 10 months, try to keep up.

be, you are dreaming. Only with an increase of a 1% of GDP in military spending in the EU the military power of Europe would surpass the RF. And that is happening already - guess thanks to who.

 Not to mention the abundant evidence given by the RF not having most of the claimed capabilities, the number of vehicles, the technology, the manufacturing capacity... This war has evidenced that the RF army is unable to reach any objective even against a theoretically inferior enemy, with a weaker economy and a bad starting strategic situation.

For example, and I take this with a "pinch of salt", a brit general recently declared: "I am going to inform Putin of something that his generals do not dare to say: You do not have enough artillery shells for fighting". An American sources says that there's a "critical shortage" of shells and even other war "staples".

Instead of dreaming of the great Russia, you should be waking up to the harsh reality of a broken system.

It reminds me 2023 forecasts by Medvedev, did you got influenced by him? But from what I remember you're not doing very well with future predictions. Russia from main security threat for Europe turning into security guarantee of Europe - that's good one.

Leaving people without electricity, water and heating in the middle of winter is everyday inonvenience - that's interesting logic. Paкeты дoбpa, like one propagandist called it:
https://t.me/logikamarkova/4625

^^^ As the Russian war effort picks up, its unemployment goes down even further.

You can officially have a very low unemployment, and even you can have a really low unemployment, but it is also about the type of employment you have and the salary you will get for it. This includes the fact that if the currency looses value, salaries fall comparatively.

The RF, as any other country can do without external investment, perhaps better than others I reckon since the economy is based on commodities and raw goods exports, but, as the USSR proves, it eventually makes the country less competitive and inflation creates chaos.

As resilient as it is, history proves that this does not end up well.

You are so saturated with Western propaganda that you don't even notice it. What kind of genocide are we talking about? Rocket attacks on energy facilities began in response to the Ukrainian terrorist attack on the Crimean bridge. The strikes themselves are targeted, civilians do not suffer directly from them. The schedule of missile strikes on power facilities is designed in such a way that power engineers have a chance to restore the supply of heat and electricity in a short time after each strike, which actually happens in practice. Basically, the suffering of civilians in Ukraine from strikes on energy facilities is not fatal, it's just everyday inconvenience. There would have been fewer of them if the priority for the supply of electricity had not been shifted in favor of the enterprises of the Military Industrial Complex. This is the choice of Ukraine and Russia is not responsible for it.

The Russian propaganda machine is quite gleeful about "bombing Ukraine into stone age", making Ukrainians freeze etc. They seem to have given up on any attempts to appear not totally genocidal. Veleor hasn't been able to reconcile the contradiction between "liberators" and "terrorists" yet, but I'm sure he'll get there eventually.

The unemployment rate in Russia is now at a very low level, it seems to be around 3%.

By investment, you probably mean external investment. Russia completely manages without them, investing funds from the National Wealth Fund or borrowing on the domestic market.

I believe that the current state of the Russian economy is quite satisfactory. Of course, it was not possible to completely avoid a fall in GDP in 2022, but it amounted to just over 2% at the end of the year, although a fall of 12% was predicted in early spring. The inflation rate at the end of the year was about 12%, which is comparable to the inflation rate in the European Union and much better than the inflation rate, for example, in the Baltics. Things are not going great, but much better than they could be.

It will be a great success if Europe manages to avoid a big war next year. Everything that is happening in Ukraine now is, by and large, not a story about Ukraine, it is a struggle for the redistribution of spheres of influence in Europe. Russia is not satisfied with the current state of affairs, in which Europe is actually occupied by the United States and is under the protection of NATO. According to Russia, this is a threat to its security and generally destabilizes the situation in the region. I think following the results of the special operation in Ukraine, continental Europe will pass under the military protectorate of Russia. That is, Russia will be the guarantor of security in Europe and ensure stability in the region.

Oh, here we go again. I don't really have that much time like, but I'll try to respond you.

I'll ask you simple question. Do you think that in current Mariupol it's safe to say something bad about Russia? And not somewehere in the kitchen, but in public, for millions of people potentially.
You pick this video to show, but you will ignore all videos from people who had to evacuate from Mariupol and talking about Russian hostilities.
BTW, how about these videos where Russian tanks are shooting at apartment buildings in Mariupol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hm6LW8TImI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev6_cpWfcDo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QPUmZ9XsR8
Is it all fakes or all these buildings were basis of Azov ''nazis''

I hope that you understand that if Russia will decide to destroy Europe, it will be the end of Russia. Don't forget that not Russia only have nukes.

This photo is obvious proof that they hit residential area and not some military depot. C'mon, you can do better.


So, where did I said that Ukrainian media never post fakes? And that story about Snake Island defenders is more like fog of war, rather than fake IMO. It happened in first days of war when there was lot of panic and uncertainity and when Ukraine even had to make story about Ghost of Kyiv to keep faith of people. Also, IIRC, Russia also didn't announced about surrender of Snake Island defenders, so, their faith wasn't certain.
You want to say that Russian Defensy ministry or state owned media never got caught publishing fakes? Are you serious?

I didn't thought that's so easy to trigger you. BTW, do you really think have Nazi minds in their heads when they use this slogan or they just express patriotic feeling to their country?

It still don't makes them official source. By such logic you can all all websites with .ua domain as offcial sources. They even might get funded by Ukraine's government, but it's still not official source. I told what can be called as official source.

I won't question preferences of China president here, same like their Covid policy. You call Zelensky clown, I prefer word comedian. Offcourse, it's question of taste, but IMO, he was good comedian. And IMO, that's better than former KGB agent.

The essence of a neutral party

So, ok, who exactly can be completely neutral side in this conflict and can be relied as objective source? It would be interesting to hear.

I am not sure I am getting it. Are somehow stating that the RF has not bombed (and is still shelling and rocketing) civilian infrastructure? I mean, the satellite pictures show basically cities flattened and there is an obvious attack on power plants -which I cannot better describe than civilian infrastructure.

I am not sure if you are also trying to argue that no war crimes have been committed o somehow trying to whitewash these. I think that at this point the evidence gathered is overwhelming.

^^^ You are missing the whole point. Putin got elected because he talked his people into trying things the fake American way... free, peaceful, and honest trade with the world. The US is using Ukraine to stop this peace. So, what's next? Nobody really knows, but...

If Putin's attempts don't work, he will be replaced. The next guy might be Medvedev. If this happens, Russia won't be playing around any longer, trying to do it the peaceful way.

No cognitive dissonance whatsoever?



UN hasn't counted civilian deaths in Mariupol yet, nor in some other locations still under Russian control. Even then, the numbers you posted show more civilian deaths in the 10 months of invasion than in the 8 years prior to it, let alone the numbers from the most recent years. So not sure what you're trying to prove or disprove here.

Here is the quote in case you somehow managed to miss this statement in the article you linked to:


Nice attempt to move the goal posts. Your statement was "[for] some reason, you don't ask yourself that bayraktars have practically ceased to be talked about in the media". I don't know which media you're referring to, just saying that I do see Bayraktars mentioned in Z-channels. Also there were reports of Ukraine getting a supply of missiles that can be guided by TB2s, which (a) would be quite weird if they didn't have any TB2s and (b) might result in more "media" mentions for you.


I'm stating a fact. See, this might be the reason (or one of the reasons anyway) why you're so adamant that what I post is false or has bad intent or whatever. You seem to be reading what simply isn't there, like feelings. They have HIMARS. It's a fact.


... and here we go again. Seriously, aren't you tired of this yet?


That's not what I said. I said it'd be suicidal, and that they haven't used it yet, and those  two things might be related.

I can't predict the future but I'm reasonably certain that if someone is deluded enough to use nukes - they don't need much of a reason, so all this posturing about certain red lines (like Crimea) that Ukrainians should not cross makes no sense. Putin can decide to nuke anything for any reason or no reason at all, just like he decided to start the suicidal invasion. No point in trying to guess his mental state. So far he seems to grasp the reality of nuclear blackmail being useful only for the internal consumption on people like yourself. He might wake up tomorrow thinking he's invincible and push the button.


That was back when Putin still pretended to have some respect for the constitution. Did you really not learn anything about your country's history, even just 15 years back?


Nice try. Did they?