Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 190. (Read 73776 times)

Reply to suchmoon

Shelling of Mariupol

First of all, there were more than "a couple thousand" Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol, since at least 2,500 of them surrendered to the Russian army.
Further, it makes sense for you when the Russian authorities bomb their gas pipelines in the waters controlled by NATO countries, but when the residents of Mariupol tell you that the Armed Forces of Ukraine and soldiers from Azov fired at their houses and held them captive, for some reason you refuse to believe these testimonies.
In December 2022, journalist Panchenko traveled from Kyiv to Mariupol and asked local residents who they thought had bombed Mariupol. Since this video is fresh, I will elaborate on their comments, as they are very important.



Source (26-30 minutes video in Russian)
Original in Russian in small print
You accuse me of replicating false data in favor of the Russian side, which I allegedly do not even question. In my opinion, I'm doing something else: I present events from the other side of the conflict, relying on various information sources. I didn't count by the number of links, but according to my feelings, regarding the military conflict in Ukraine, I still refer to European, American and Ukrainian sites more often in my posts, and I have to refer to Russian sources when some news is hushed up in the USA or Europe, for example, about missile shelling of Donetsk and Luhansk by Ukrainian armed groups or when western media do not show interviews with residents of Mariupol. Therefore, I have to dilute the local information field about the events in Ukraine with those messages that, due to censorship, are not published in the Western media.

The difference between reliable sources and additional information

I see that you don't understand about that comment link. So again we have to go into a long analysis.
You referred to the YouTube channel of one of the Ukrainian media (which in their mass by May had already managed to greatly discredit themselves with various fakes: the resurrected dead from Snake Island, the Ghost of Kyiv, etc.), but you still wrote without any doubt the following: "... Glorious Russian military at its best - killing civilians. Or attacking parks and playgrounds".
That is, you accused the Russian army in a frenzied bombing of civilian infrastructure. I published a post about how things may not be as you think and that the strike was in response to a howitzer shot that was located there, referring to a comment by a user who didn't just write "this is fake", without any details. This user also provided the address where it happened, howitzer location, the details of the event. This user doesn't have a nickname, but rather a common Ukrainian surname. Her profile was created back in December 2021. The post didn't look like a comment from a troll and a deceiver. A troll would not bother with such details, for the reason that users of video platforms usually pay little attention to comments. But instead of having at least a little doubt about the accusatory information that you spread, you reproach me for unreliable sources. Naturally, a comment in social networks is also not a reliable source for me and is not equivalent to an article in the WSJ. But you don't seem to understand the difference between sources of information and additional information. As the Ukrainian media wrote, this is how it is for you. And it doesn't matter to you what people write in the comments there, because in your opinion their words are not significant at all.

The trigger

It's not about definitions. I don't like it when well-known Bitcointalk users write nonsense, talking that they understand the topic. That comment about the background of the conflict was intended not only for you, but also for other forum readers. In general, I think that users should try their best when publishing each post so that the forum doesn't look like a chat.

How the Russian army will be able to achieve its goals

Only the General Staff of the Russian Federation knows in which direction the main blow of the Russian troops will be delivered, but I believe that it will be carried out in the next 1-1.5 months. Since this is facilitated by weather conditions convenient for a Russian attack and the monotonous destruction of the Ukrainian energy infrastructure. At the moment, the main hostilities are taking place near Bakhmut/Artemovsk. The Russian leadership doesn't even have to invent anything special now, the Zelensky regime itself brings Ukrainian soldiers to exterminate the male population, to my great regret, precisely because Ukrainian and Western propaganda feeds Ukrainians with illusions that they have some chance of winning this massacre. When the Ukrainians "run out", then the Alliance forces will bring more Poles, first in the form of mercenaries, and then regular troops will go.

Now remarks to minor comments:
- Where do you get information about Severodonetsk?
- The Russian authorities call part of the shelling of Kherson a Ukrainian provocation. Given the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine against Donetsk, Luhansk and in Mariupol (in the spring of 2022 - read above), this should at least be taken into account.
- Another question about "many more Donbas residents" - what sources do you refer to? According to the UN website, from February 24, 2022 to December 26, 2022, 6884 people died in total civilians throughout Ukraine. 3569 people died in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, in the territory controlled by the Ukrainian government, and 483 people died in the territory controlled by Russia. From April 2014 to December 31, 2021, over 14,000 people died in Donbas, of which 4,400 were Ukrainian Armed Forces, 3,404 were civilians, and 6,500 were members of armed groups.

Retreat

Your optimism about the capabilities of the Ukrainian army is not at all clear what is caused. This can only be explained by the oversaturation of Western and Ukrainian propaganda. A third of the population of Ukraine has left for other countries. The rest of the population is now freezing without light and heat in cold houses. They do not have their own economy, the Ukrainian military forces are kept only at the expense of foreign handouts. In Ukraine, half of the energy infrastructure has already been destroyed, as well as most of the tanks, armored vehicles and aircraft. The only resource that the Armed Forces of Ukraine still has in large numbers is the people whom the Kyiv regime monotonously sends to be slaughtered under the artillery fire of the Russian army. Russia has not even begun to use the heavy means of destruction it has. This is not about nuclear weapons, but about heavy conventional weapons. If it comes to them, then there will be nothing left of Ukraine at all. Your logic is strange: you call Putin a "genocidal dictator", but do you think that he will simply withdraw troops without a good fight? I have already written before that the whole of Europe, together with Ukraine, will be destroyed in the fire rather than the Russian government will cede Crimea and Donbass. And judging by the rhetoric of the Russian authorities, they will not stop in Donbass.

New mentions of bayraktars in the media

You mean new information about TB2 attacks by Ukraine and their destruction? This is unlikely, because the last time the Russian Ministry of Defense mentioned them was a month and a half ago. If you have other information, please provide links.

The use of bayraktars in Ukraine

People outside the General Staff of Ukraine who do not have complete information can only speculate. And your opinion that bayraktars are now used only for reconnaissance is unlikely, since there are much cheaper Ukrainian analogues for this. Why risk expensive drones and literally hammer nails with a microscope? The main characteristic of the Turkish drone is to strike at the enemy.
Also, the Bulgarian information resource drew attention to the disappearance of bayraktars.
I see you are satisfied that the AFU is now using HIMARS. Do you know exactly who the AFU uses them against?

The "Main Liar of the Night" award goes to...

Many American, European, and especially Ukrainian sources have shown themselves quite clearly in the publication of all kinds of fakes. For example, yesterday the main liar of the evening was the Ukrainian deputy Lesya Vasylenko, who posted a fake about an 8-year-old "Ukrainian boy" Marc, who allegedly survived the Russian shelling. Although in fact this photo was published back in 2013 in Spain.



The number of military aircraft in Ukraine

I don't know about HIMARS, but the number of aircraft in the Armed Forces of Ukraine can vary greatly due to the repair and then secondary operation of previously damaged equipment, as well as due to new deliveries from Europe.

Media influence on wars

You can read about the Spanish-American war, as well as about Iraq.

Suicidal fans of atomic bombs in the Kremlin and not only

Are you sure that Russia will not use nuclear weapons? And then the American Minister Mayorcas is not entirely sure of this.

Source (p. 20)

Drunken troll on the throne

I thought that there would be a wide discussion now, but you write to me about "drunk trolls" in response. For your information, two days ago Putin appointed Medvedev first deputy chairman of the military-industrial commission. And about the throne: real monarchs do not give it to anyone, even temporarily.

Oryx and modern opportunities to influence people's minds

I don't want to say anything specific about Oryx, but do you really think that in our time it's impossible to forge photo and video evidence? If you think so, then watch a video about deep fakes.

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Reply to LTU_btc

Which of the countries creates the most fakes about military operations?

The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine in March 2022 published a video in low quality from the computer game Arma 3, declaring it as proof of the destruction of 4 Russian Ka-52 helicopters. Ukrainian Ombudsman Lyudmila Denisova was fired because she spread fake stories about massive sexual violence against Ukrainians by Russian soldiers. There were also soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Zmeiny Island, whom the Ukrainian government at first declared valiantly dead, but then it turned out that they were alive and surrendered. And this is just the tip of the iceberg of Ukrainian fakes. Enlighten me, have the Russian Ministry of Defense or key Russian media such as TASS, RIA, RG, Kommersant, IZ been caught doing something like this?

Again about bayraktars

Orlan is a Russian relatively inexpensive drone. Its cost is tens of times less than that of a bayraktar, so there is not even much to refute here. Of course, they are shot down, but in terms of the amount it is not so expensive for the Russian army as it is for the Armed Forces of Ukraine with TB2.
The exact information on the number of Turkish TB2s is known only in the General Staff of Ukraine. But they won't publish it anyway. There are indirect signs that almost all Turkish drones have already been destroyed. This is evidenced by the lull in the media and also the reports of the Russian Ministry of Defense, which are also unloved by many here, which last reported about the TB2 they shot down in early October. And if we touch on the last mention of the Russian Ministry of Defense in general, then the mention of the Turkish UAV was a month and a half ago.

Nazi slogan

No need to lie about what I like. Your text under the avatar disgusts mentally normal people, because it is a Nazi slogan, and I don't like it at all.
It's disgusting that you joke about things like that.

Defence-ua.com

Since Defense-ua.com has been the official website of the Ukrainian information company Defense Express, which publishes magazines on military topics and which participated in the implementation of information projects for the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. Many Ukrainian news sites refer to this resource (1, 2, 3). That is, as a source specifically for designating the Ukrainian position, it is quite suitable for itself.

Clown

The Chinese leadership refused Zelensky, but accepted Medvedev to discuss, among other things, the situation in Ukraine, so in this case it was clearly demonstrated which of these two is perceived by the China as a more representative person to discuss important things, and who is a clown.

The essence of a neutral party

The problem is that the resource may not publish fakes, but nevertheless, if the authors of the site are not neutral in relation to the parties to the conflict, then there is a possibility that they will publish information biased in relation to one of the parties.

Depends if Putin pays bounty in crypto or roubles.

And, its very convenient, you can freely go and kill one yourself, as everyone will blame Putin...isn't that great opportunity or what?

Falling down seems to be a huge cause of death for Russian oligarchs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths

Traditionally it's journalists who had most dangerous jobs Russia, and now it seems to be anyone having thoughts that are considered to be opposition to Putin. They don't even need to live in Russia which makes it pretty scary..

^^^ Don't forget all the money being laundered through the banks that are making the transfers of US money to Ukraine. They get their cut, just like the Bidens and the crooked Congress of the US... to say nothing about many others.

I wonder how much of the money sent by the US filters its way into Russia.

There is your grandma money, and there is dirty money that banks are laundering for people like that Russian.
Your grandma money is safe, but that Russian guy and Tony Montana money are not
Did any western bank returned Gadaffi family money, or Marcos or Mubarak money? Noriega maybe?

The bank doesn't get your money when you die, unless you designate the bank as your beneficiary, which would be quite weird.

They're stupid, they keep billions in american banks, and those banks can hire hitmen to kill them,
keep money, knowing they're excused because morons will blame it on Putin

I know, it seems weird, but maybe Putin ran out of polonium or novichok.

^^^ Are these coincidences? So we see that it is not Russia who is the aggressor.

I think they are lucky because at least their dead bodies were found...


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11574603/Another-Putin-critic-falls-window-death-Tycoon-plummets-luxury-hotel-India.html

"After months in Ukraine training soldiers, Ret Col Andrew Milburn of
@TheMozartGroup
 mercenary firm gets sauced on camera & spills the beans:

Ukraine is a "corrupt, fucked-up society" run by "fucked-up people"

Ukrainian soldiers "kill dudes who surrendered," commit "atrocities""


Don't believe me, look for yourself:

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1607477025962430465?s=20&t=kyK3_nVAGEdXLQmYr3yKhw


Ukrainian slodiers seem unhappy about that, too:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IgmVFRi2eHo

Sounds like you are beginning to wake up a little. The US absolutely DOESN'T love Ukraine. And they will prove it when they cut their losses and back out.

However, you used usatoday.com as one of your examples. Did you look at that website url? What does it say? USA Today. Don't you realize, yet, that USA Today is part of the US media propaganda machine? I know, I know. You have been taking lessons.

It seems that a drone attack has killed 3 RF soldiers. It would not be anything unusual, except for the fact that it has happened in the Engels base, 600 km inside the RF borders. But since that would be impossible, let's say that 3 RF soldiers died for smoking in the wrong place.

https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-drone-attack-hits-russias-engels-airbase-for-second-time-in-a-month/


Sources please? Monsanto is not a landowner, is a biotech company. They are not interested in owning land, but rather selling their GMO seeds to people and companies that actually produce food.

 On top of that:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/09/13/fact-check-ukraines-president-did-not-sell-farmland-us-companies/7942775001/


The US has supplied around 3 billion in weapons https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60774098.

US has never claimed to "love Ukrainian people" nor for that matter the people of any other country in the world. US is supporting Ukraine because they would rather not have the RF and particularly the current government pressing near the border of close allies and for many other reasons.

It is clear that there will be mutually beneficial trade agreements between EU, USA and Ukraine, which is absolutely normal between countries that share similar ideas and are becoming allies. Will the US benefit from it? Most likely yes. Will Ukraine profit from it? Yes, certainly more than anything they may get from Moscow ever.

You don't seem to understand proxy ownership, do you?

Consider twitter. twitter banned a large number of people and organizations, including Trump, because of their Republican slanted tweets. It started when the FBI suggested to twitter that these people weren't appropriate tweeters. So, twitter banned them, voluntarily. Then the FBI reimbursed twitter for its losses from banning those people.

Did the FBI pay twitter to ban people? No. twitter did it completely voluntarily. Then the FBI paid them for doing it.

Did the FBI pay twitter to ban people? Now, we see that, Yes, they did. Nobody knows what kinds of talk went on behind closed doors between twitter people and the FBI. But the fact is, twitter did it, and then got paid by the FBI.

Further, now we are seeing that twitter was an arm of the FBI. twitter might not have succeeded at all if they hadn't been propped up and used by the FBI to indoctrinate people in the twitter world.

The point? Just because a US company's name might not be on a Ukrainian land deed, doesn't mean they don't own the land through private agreements and money flow between them and the Ukrainians whose names are on the deed.

Check your sources.
https://fullfact.org/news/ukraine-land-sales-zelenskyy/

They invested in the Ukrainian AG industry. Ukrainian law bans foreign companies (or individuals) from owning land in Ukraine.

The US is the most aggressive country in the world and a country that lives off of selling weapons, so for them, war is the way for them to survive, to become an empire. In addition to announcing billions of dollars in arms sales to Ukraine, when war broke out, their allies also dramatically increased defense spending. It must be said that in 2021, despite high inflation, the US government has collected billions of dollars in arms sales.


President Biden has repeatedly stated that Americans will always support Ukraine against Russia to the last Ukrainian, the last Ukrainian, not the American. Ukrainians are blindly becoming pawns for the US government.

Russia invaded Ukraine.

That's how the war started.

I feel so sad for you.

Don't you realize that 3 US companies have bought up 60% of Ukraine farmland? And don't you know that one of them is Monsanto, a company with proven records of spraying crops with poisons that kill and maim people? And you would invite them in, right?

And don't you realize that the US has supplied almost $100 billion in armament and cash to Ukraine? And didn't you know that the US is promising more?

Is the US buying up Ukraine land because they love the Ukraine people? Don't you realize that you and the Ukrainian people are selling your souls to the US?  You aren't dying in this war for freedom. All you are doing is dying for a different master.

I don't have to provide you with misdirection and disinformation. You are providing yourself with all of that. All you have to do is look at the news where the US is admitting to all of this... which is essentially making Ukraine a slave for them. Ukraine is being sold into slavery by the same people (US) who you think are helping you out. And they are getting your boys and girls to fight and die for them so they, themselves, don't even have to come in and die in your war that they provoked Russia into starting.

And you can't even see it, right under your nose.

Misdirection, disinformation and just lies every time you reply, literally from a playbook of russian troll factory, just to spread confusion so that people wouldn't know what to believe. Trying to tire people with random links they would have to follow or just flood the forums with some already debunked conspiracies and lies.

So forgive me not taking your arguments seriously. If you knew any ukrainian people or even lived near by russian propaganda you might have some empathy that you could apply to this.

And your pseudo-intellectual "US propaganda" rants just shows the lack of education, which is something that's free in my country by the way.