Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 298. (Read 60618 times)

NATO nukes haven't moved closer to Russia in the last 30 years and there were no plans to do so. NATO expansion was quite clearly defensive and it would have remained so even if Ukraine joined NATO. Despite Putin's delusions, the West wants a stable prosperous Russia to trade with, not a shithole to fight with. If they wanted to attack it they'd have done it in mid-1990s.

Putin was upset about NATO missile defense systems in Poland et al - do you realize how insane that is? "Don't you dare to defend against us should we decide to liberate you at some point".


It doesn't look like Ukrainians want to be "friendly" (aka Belarus) with Russia so yeah let's bomb them to rubble.

I'm not saying that we're living in a perfect world...but seeing USA/NATO track record since WW2, can you blame Russians?
Looking at Napoleon, Hitler, Genghis Khan and numerous other invasions, can you blame Russians?

I suggest you look for and watch Oliver Stone (lenghty) interview with Putin on Youtube

hell, USA was afraid of small Grenada and attacked state of 100 thousands people with almost no military

Two French Intelligence operatives died in helicopter crash
https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/american-and-uk-military-advisors-plus-france-intel-operatives-holed-up-with-azov-nazis-in-mariupol-now-trapped-by-russian-forces

So, in your view, Ukraine cannot decide what to do because else Putin would not feel "secure" despite having a nuclear arsenal? Just think of it in in the opposite way: "Russian should demilitarise so that Ukraine feels secure". You see how absurd that is?

I compared current situation with Cuba crisis, BUT Ukraine in NATO would put Russia in jeopardy against conventional attack too.
Unlike conventional attack from Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania, conventional attack from Ukraine would put Russia in situation where only defense
would be use of nukes

In case of neutral or friendly Ukraine, for conventional war vs NATO  Russia only has to close Suwalki gap
Its 100km vs 2300km border to defend

Nothing that Ukraine did or didn't do had any effect on the situation (unless of course they simply gave up and joined Putin's empire voluntarily).

Putin lied to the Russian people and created the obviously false narrative that Ukraine ("nazis") and/or NATO were going to attack Russia so he had to strike first. NATO has been on Russia's borders for decades. The new members joined NATO to defend against this exact shit that's going on now in Ukraine and it was a damn good decision that saved Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania - surely Putin would have gone there first and not to Ukraine if he could.

In your view, is the fact that Cuba, in the 60s, could not install nuclear missiles on its soil the true justification for this war?

Do you think Ukraine would be admitted in the OTAN and, if so, it would have nuclear missiles installed in its soil? Before you answer that question, please notice that Lithuania is a NATO member and the distance from Moscow is less than 500 miles, that there are nuclear submarines that can be positioned in the artic or any other point in the coastal areas of Russia and that there are several other options for a first strike capability.

Do you think that now that Finland is requesting to join the NATO Putin is justified to attack Finland? Should NATO position troops in Finland now?

The fact is that if you want to invade a country, you can always find a whatabbout to justify.

Same reason as why Cuba was not allowed to put nukes on its soil?
Why you call 1960's "middle ages"?

Also, you should make distinction between "because" and "as if"

Thanks for the track covering advice, I still rather have a reliable written source. No, Google will not track any of my activity unless I want to, thank again.

You say you do not make conspiracy theories, but you did make the statement


So my question remains. Does that mean that you think he wanted Putin to attack or you think he did not want him to attack?

Also, why should Ukraine have Putin deciding what they can or cannot do? Are we in the middle ages?

Use TOR browser, so then only CIA and NSA will track you, and not Google

Its not a problem to give you text source, although its always better to actually hear it first hand,
instead reading someones opinion about what someone said, but here you go:

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/25/lets-remember-madeleine-albright-as-who-she-really-was

Google will track that too, mind you, but oh well.

Regarding what Zelensky wanted or did not want, I'm not mind reader, so I won't make any conspiracy theories
about that...I wish he accepted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements and gave up NATO membership, then
we would have much more clear situation, and Putin would have much harder job of convincing anyone, including
Russians, that he had to attack Ukraine

Sorry I do not watch youtube videos for information, I would rather not have google knowing what I am interested in nor use - in general - an algorithm that systematically promotes click-baits. Do you have a written, credible source?

Do you think that the war in Irak justifies the war in Ukraine or makes it good?

Also, I think that the questions on the IQ are biased. Most people around the world do not read about state laws in the US.

EDITED:
Let's get this clear then : Do you think they wanted him to attack or do you think they didn't?

Sorry, I thought its common knowledge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8

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About your (false) "Ukraine wanted to be invaded" translation of my "Ukraine knew its actions will lead to war" words, maybe
look at this interview with Ukrainian presidential adviser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwcwGSFPqIo

Apart from trying to justify the war on the ground of "Ukraine wanted to be invaded", "the amount of children dead is not as much as in other wars" and "the US is worse, so this is OK", may I know where you get your figures, particularly the 500k children dead in Irak?

They probably expect same respect as recently deceased USA politician who said that death of 500 000 Iraq children
was worth price to be sure that Saddam doesn't have WMDs.

let numbers sink to you for a while:

150 dead children in Ukraine, unprecedented sanctions
500 000 dead children in Iraq, nothing happens

Before you accuse me of Russophilia: yes, I think all wars are disaster, and I think Russia are in Ukraine
not only for geostrategic, but also economic reasons. But Ukrainian leadership played right into Putin
narrative, as if they wanted him to attack

Also, amount of American hypocrisy is staggering

You are 100% responsible for the war crimes Russians committed in Ukraine.

Your nation will be paying for decades for the destruction and the damage they have caused.

Your countrymen showed no humanity, they killed, robbed, and raped en masse.

As they left the Kyiv area, they stole civilian cars, minivans, all loaded with the loot they managed to carry.

In the temporarily occupied territories, they are terrorizing the civilian population and killing anyone who resists.

Russians are animals. No question about it. Nobody will want to have anything to do with you, once the UN investigation is complete and
the world actually learns what you guys did Ukraine.

I appreciate your list. Nancy Pelosi's poem, profoundly artistic and captivating in nature, still captures the West's stance on Ukraine which is stand by and watch. Five helicopters might not be much against 100k-200k Russian troops and their thousands of aircrafts and tens of thousands of armored vehicles.


Biden is correct, just as most of Europe are. They do not want to get involved. The red line NATO has set up is the usage of chemical weapons and/or tactical nukes, it would appear. The current involvement and aid the West has isn't enough for Ukraine to "win" the war IMO.


Biden is not in control and too far gone to make any of his own decisions. And that's giving him credit because his responsibility for these matters are partially forfeited. I suppose you think it is coincidental that Putin invades after a botched Afghanistan withdrawal in which Joe Biden coerced the Afghanistan President to lie about the Taliban's standing in the country, which was followed by an immediate take over resulting in the death of 13 U.S. service members. And how can we forget the botched counter-attack, which the WH initially lied and covered up until reporting by the NYT uncovered 10 innocent civilians were killed - all because Biden wanted a "tough guy" appearance in response to terrorism. Putin was watching. So was China.

Did you know so far, just from the US Ukraine has received:

Five Mi-17 helicopters;
1,400 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
4,600 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems;
100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;
300 grenade launchers, 5,000 rifles, 1,000 pistols, 600 machine guns, and 600 shotguns;
Over 60 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenade launcher and mortar rounds;
25,000 sets of body armor;
Four counter-artillery and counter-unmanned aerial system tracking radars;

And that list is 2 weeks out of date.  They've sent lots more since.  In total over $2 billion.

But Pelosi read a poem, and Biden said no to the fighter jets (and provided a rational explanation why).  So you're take away is "Biden won't send anything but pocket change and Pelosi read a poem instead".

You've got Biden Derangement Syndrome.

Not everywhere and not all Russians, but there are prerequisites for this. Perhaps, if you check the materials below, you will understand where did the rumors about Nazism come from.
Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis
'These are actual Nazis that aren't neo in any sense'
Torchlight parade in Kyiv honors Nazi-linked nationalist
Ukrainian TV host calls for 'Extermination of Russian Children'

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The fact is that Russophobia has affected even those citizens who left Russia long ago and do not participate in the presidential elections. In addition, social networks and politicians are whipping up hysteria.

I am based on data from the Russian Ministry of Defense. There are a lot of fakes on the Ukrainian side (including about 100 captured tanks), Russian data looks reliable. Putin has declared the west to be the "Empire of Lies", so Russians have to tell the truth in order to look like a knight in shining armor.

Yes, this is discrimination based on nationality, a manifestation of Nazism. What collective responsibility are you talking about? I did not vote for Putin in the elections and I am not responsible for his decisions and actions. I am responsible for my decisions and actions, but I have no responsibility simply because I am Russian. I am human and you can treat me without national or racial prejudice.

I don't think this is true at all. The virtue signaling from the US and Europe can only go so far.

The West's response can be perfectly encapsulated here. Ukraine needs jets, and Poland was ready to send them if the U.S. was ready to provide military equipment to Poland in return; they chose not to. They instead got a kind poem from Nancy Pelosi, with solidarity of course. I'm sure Putin is trembling in fear.

If the West cared about Ukraine, they would not wait for innocent civilians to perish, with dead bodies laying amongst the rubble of imploded buildings. What ever spare change the U.S. and Europe can put together isn't anything meaningful. Ukraine needs military equipment. They've been provided minimal amounts from some European countries and it isn't enough.