Topic: [SCAM] Sportsbet.io seized my profits - page 2. (Read 3078 times)

Like last time and the time before it, you overlooked many of my words to draw erroneous conclusions about what I was saying; perhaps that explains it.


This is a lot of work you did, and I admittedly didn't bother to look into a comparison of AskGamblers totals for both sportsbooks. If you are using this as a metric, then obviously Sportsbet comes out favorably here, as they only have 4 complaints, 3 of which were resolved.


They apparently have a Curacao gaming license but lost the license required to operate in the U.K.


My point was they knew something was blatantly illegal and they did it anyway for the sake of making money. This is the type of mindset that guides their operation from top to bottom, which is why a number of casino review sites have them "blacklisted".

Well, I start reading those accusations few days ago and this is what I noticed:


From bitcointalk:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54944917
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1xbit-scam-please-tell-me-help-me-5267433 -> multi-accounting
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1xbit-stole-my-winnings-almost-1-year-ago-5267919 -> multi-accounting (sorry S, I am putting all scam accusations together with response/lack of response from casino)


From askgamblers:

UNRESOVLED

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/responsable-gambling -> player asked casino to block their account because they have gambling problems and casino asked for their documents which player refused to provide.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-scam -> casino asked player to send them documents, seems like player did twice but has never seen funds.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/can-not-withdraw-account-verification-anormally-long -> player is accused of multi-accounting and...hm...someone else placed bets.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/2nd-verification-from-1xbet -> casino asked player to send documents, player did and waited for 2 weeks. It is not known what happened after.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/blocked-account-and-request-to-deliver-some-documents-to-russia -> player was asked to send documents which player did. It is not known what happened after.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/account-closed-for-250usd -> no response from casino, it is not know what happened here.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/delayed-verification-withdrawal-blocked-account-balance-13000eur -> player was asked for KYC and 9 days later casino told them their documents are being verified. There was no response from casino and it is unknown what happened with funds.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-account-and-funds-blocked-no-further-assistance -> multi-accounting

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-closed-my-account-and-delayed-deposit-refund -> multi-accounting

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-having-troubles-with-usd7-000-withdrawal -> player withdraw funds, received 2 psvouchers and they said vouchers are invalid. Casino denied this and they told player vouchers were good and they have to contact "payment system" about it which seems player refused to do.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/payment-approved-but-i-never-received-it -> player requested payment to bank account, 7 days after player said they didn't receive money. It is not known what happened after.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/delayed-payment-of-rs-9996-claiming-it-was-processed-however-it-was-not -> player didn't receive payment but casino said they did and asked them to confirm or deny this. Player said they didn't and it is not known what happened with funds after that.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-withdraw-not-receive -> Lol, this one is funny:
Seems they lost license because they offered betting on children's sport and cockfighting. While I have no idea what is children's sport, cockfighting is unethical depending on country, it is legal in some countries. Do they have license now? (I can't access site)
This?
This indeed is unethical behavior by casino, would you imagine that, they allowed people from restricted country to bet!  /s


Me trying to register on sportsbet:

...but, they restrict access for only few countries despite the fact the list is much larger than USA, Netherlands, UK and few other countries they mention in their ToS.

Me trying to register on roobet from the same IP:

No restrictions, everyone is free to use site. Unethical?

I like the way you articulated this point. When a precedent had been set about allowing forum users to act as arbitrators then it regardless of the outcome being in favour of the casino or the user - it would open the floodgates for others to ask for copycat treatment.

Still, the amount claimed by the OP is just 21mBTC, it is a tiny amount yet he went through the whole drama of playing the victim and accusing Sportsbet of cheating him just to try to get that money. It is a really silly thing to do in my opinion, just does not make sense. Maybe the OP hoped Sportsbet would give in and pay what was being claimed in order to avoid negative publicity but they did something that the OP did not expect.

Sportsbet dug their heels in and stood their ground against those breaching their ToS and did it as a matter of principle regardless of what allegations of BTC amount were being made against them.

If users to do not like the ToS offered by Sportsbet they should simply find a casino or sports betting website that offers them better ToS or those that the users prefer.

Should it though?

For you it's ok that a user gets treated differently based on the time he spends on an internet forum?

Speaks highly of you...

I agree with this in some extent. Of course if something happens to a reputable user, you will assume he is telling the truth. But take it the other way. IF the casino is indeed rigging it's "KYC" process to it's advantage, it will certainly react differently towards a regarded member since his accusation would damage their reputation far more.

So what you are saying sound dangerous to me, and totally crazy in terms of customer relation.

As has been mentioned, ultimately what it comes down to in situations where all we have to rely upon is the word of the parties involved in a dispute, is whether you believe the word of the casino or of the player.

I think that who is making the accusation carries big weight on this forum, as it should. If a reputable member who is known to be a pretty heavy gambler reports having been scammed, their word is going to carry more weight than 5-10 newbies. That's not to say established accounts never lie or newbies always do lie, but its a decent rule of thumb to assign greater credibility to established accounts.

Also, in the case of 1xbit, the owners (1xCorp N.V.) have something of a reputation for unethical conduct among the highest levels of business.

https://europeangaming.eu/portal/latest-news/2019/09/11/53961/liverpool-and-chelsea-cancel-agreement-with-1xbet/

https://www.igamingbusiness.com/news/1xbet-hit-400k-dutch-fine-over-unlicensed-activities

As far as I know, Sportsbet doesn't have such high-level accusations against it and is in relatively good standing with the regulators. Corruption spreads in a top-down manner, meaning 1xbit is simply likely to be more seedy based on the fact that they have a track record of putting profits ahead of ethics at the highest level.

Furthermore, I would say the net bulk of unresolved complaints scattered across the web is far greater for 1xbit/1xbet than Sportsbet, but it really depends on what kind of metrics you're going by...

So that is why I am more likely to give Sportsbet the benefit of the doubt than 1xbit. Others can disagree, and that's fine -- I am open to their reasoning. It would be boring if everybody thought alike.

Unless casino has some solid proofs (or confession) that someone broke their ToS it is "our word against yours". Don't just rule out false positive results of investigations, seizing funds based on suspicion etc.
There is one bookie who become highly untrusted because they never gave information about how they caught cheaters and most accusations and seized funds came from multiaccounting and breaking ToS. If you take a look at this scam accusation https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1xbit-59-eth-missings-all-bets-cancelled-account-blocked-2160655 you will notice that it is equally the same thing which happened with sportsbet recently, only difference is that sportsbet responded to accusation literally not providing any information and 1xbit didn't respond, at least not in public.

Here is another scam accusation https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54967870 which reminded me of this case, player is accused of multiaccounting and accuser said "they sent funds from casino to friend and friend made deposit to the same casino". This is exactly the same thing which happened in this scam accusation.

Why is it OK for one site to do this and when another one does the same thing they are scamming their customers? Either both are scam or non of them is scam.

I disagree. If you place a bet knowing you are operating outside of the TOS, you forfeit all right to any winnings. Personally I feel anyone caught multi-accounting and breaking the TOS that gets back their deposit or bets is lucky.
Banning these abusers and returning funds, really just encourages them to give it another try. For that reason as well I don't think these businesses should be providing any extra information regarding their processes. They are either a trusted site or they aren't. This doesn't mean they shouldn't respond to complaints but people need to either believe them or not based on what they provide and act accordingly. 

They do so because they see an opening. Probably not entirely related to the fact that there was trial run at forum members performing binding arbitration, but could be why it's so heavily weighted to sportsbet. So if you are a multi-accounting scammer, why wouldn't you take a hail mary that doesn't cost you anything but a few minutes time, and barring undeniable evidence gives you a shot recouping fraudulent funds.

It's pretty rare someone goes "Oh well, you got me. I'll go away"

You are right marlboroza.

That is the thing that rings true. How many times have we heard about casinos freezing accounts of all associated multiple accounts before sums were deposited or just when accounts were created and sums deposited?

I commend Sportsbet for returning deposits to those that breached its ToS and I equally commend them for taking a strong against those that won on their website by breaching their ToS even if tiny amounts were involved because it is a matter of principle.

The only thing I see they have gone wrong in is when they clearly do not clamp down on multiple accounts until one of those multiple accounts tries to withdraw or wins and that clearly in unacceptable because it means Sportsbet can and will keep those funds without notifying the multiple account operators they have been caught - they seem to wait until the multiple account operators win before declaring a breach of ToS.

@Sportsbet - is there any chance you could ask the people making decisions at Sportsbet if they could look in to this please? If implemented it will put all future similar allegations against Sportsbet to rest.

http://archive.md/Ldusu#selection-8421.0-8428.0 for the post, https://bpip.org/Profile?p=saturent for the password.

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I thought it was going to be another case of 'multi account' accusations, with the only provided evidence being words. I question, though, how Sportsbet allowed 4 accounts to register and be detected as multi accounts. You would think after the first, never mind the second and third, that you could catch them as they deposit or after they create their account.

Table tennis partner?
Perhaps on some rare occasions where casino decide to go trough accounts of all customers but usually it is withdraw button which triggers fraud team, who knows...

I still stand by "if you accepted bet, pay what you own and then block account(s) if you want to".

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Looks like another alt of X-Men Cyclops. What's that with all these "circumstantial accusations" lately?  

And to think the OP did all this for just 21 mBTC which at the time was around 200€ even though Sportsbet had already returned their original deposit of 427 mBTC.

I have no idea why the OP played this game with forum members and with Sportsbet.

Liar

Your post was made 05:57:56 PM
Your password changed 6:46:23 PM

I understand you slipped and compromised your entire operation, but what exactly prompted Boris007 sudden outburst? These two events happened coincidentally one after the other. You guys know each other?

saturent saturent2 saturent7 saturent01 saturent09 saturent99 

Totally seconded, and I would have merited you for this post, but since you've been such an s in the GameProtect/GetPaid thread I would just say I agree with the above, and these are good conclusions (if I were a new user I'd be careful because of Conclusion #2 and maybe SportsBet.io should make things a bit clear in that regards so a genuine user who's 100% genuine won't get stuck with a similar drama like we had in this thread).

So I take this allegation against Sportsbet is unfounded.

Just as the other allegations against Sportsbet have been virtually unfounded, this is another one that got far too much exposure than it deserved.

It seems the OP was using the same address to send BTC to Sportsbet that was used for another account therefore was in breach of Sportsbet ToS.

In this instance it is very clear Sportsbet were well within their rights to ban the user accounts for multi-accounting even if 2 different KYC were provided simply because a single BTC address was used.

There is a high probability that Sportsbet would have kept quiet and took no action if the OP had lost funds and kept losing them but took action after he won or tried to withdraw won funds BUT there is no proof that would have happened. When a user accepts ToS for using Sportsbet or any other betting website, they play by the rules or they will be banned.

Conclusion #1: Sportsbet acted well within their ToS that the OP willing signed up to do therefore Sportsbet did nothing wrong
Conclusion #2: Never use the same IP address, never use the same device to place bets and never use the same BTC address to send/withdraw funds when using Sportsbet otherwise you will be in breach of their ToS

Lol. Reasoning at it's finest.

Nobody does it so it's not valid. If you are thinking like this change is impossible. I thought you were smarter (I'll allow myself to say this since you started with under the belt posts).

So no it's not trolling.

Please show me where in the T&Cs it's written that a bet can be nulled for violation only if that bet is won, and not if it's lost. I'm very very very impatient to see that.

You can't change the past, but certainly they should consider this a learning experience.


It's not a valid point because no sportsbook does this, and no casino does it, so singling out one business for not doing it is lame. Should they do it? Probably. But its just part of standard business practice for the industry to not do it. If somebody is going to accuse SB of acting inappropriately then by extension they are accusing pretty much every single other bitcoin casino operation in existence of the same thing.

(not including dice sites for which there is no way to increase an advantage over the house edge by having multiple accounts).

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Edit so as to not create a pointless back-and-forth discussion after the situation has already been resolved:


Obviously it doesn't say that.

If you truly believe the sportsbook or the industry in general is acting inappropriately, you should open your thread about it and let's discuss it there.

I did not mean now after the player admitted it, I meant before all these dramas. It would be nice when a scam accusation arrives then Steve come up with all his weapons to protect his brand without hiding much. That will make our lives easier.

In this particular case if Steve would come up with those blockchain evidences in the first place then we would not have 9 pages of discussions.

This does not mean trolling, fact is this is a valid point. So, let's not blame each others and make things dirty. We are better than this.

I know that you've more or less just been trolling here, but this is actually a good idea for somebody to try as an experiment. What would be more impressive is if you found a bitcoin bookmaker that had a different policy than SB.


If the player agreed to it then I would think its OK to share blockchain evidence.

This is obvious that SB has full right to close the account.

Flag support already lifted and tag removed.

@Stever buddy, can you not make these things easier for us please? I do not think it would be much if would just say that your security team detected the deposit came from same wallet, in worse case you could just share us the blockchain evidences.

They more or less confirmed they were using the same wallet didn't they? This is where sportsbet can (once again) refer to their ToS I guess... You just shouldn't do this since bookies then ALWAYS use this to their advantage claiming you were multi-accounting - that's the same with FIAT bookies. I am getting your point though and that is why I wanted to hear back from Saturent. Anyway, what is going on with all those accounts being hacked and manipulated lately guys? That's some scary shit.