Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 146. (Read 845582 times)

Do you even know why there is light? And why the lightbulb emmitt light? And what fire, light bulb, radicly hot items, radiated glowing materials have in common? Do you use your brain? Or do you only use your scientism guru man pseudobrains?

If you would use your brain your would know that radiation caused by vibration is the source of light common to all those light emmitting object.

But maybe you are beyond reason here.

And yes the spirit of God was hovering above waters. So yes. There was something before the light came into being. It was a primordial chaos that God had gave order.

I could explain you fairly tales. Like a Tolkien in silmarilion have a tons of explanations why something happened. Having explanations does not mean a jack shit. I could explain you why Ent men couldnt find an Ent women. Does that means anything? No. Having explanation does not mean its true.

Its hopeless...... really. A guy that doesn't know how lightbulb works, KNOW FOR SURE how universe was created...... Oh come on..... It leads to nothing. Ignorance is not a virtue ok?


It does not explain TO YOU. What are you? Smartest guy there is? I highly doubt it.

Was god talking to himself out loud? Sonoluminescence is the emission of short bursts of light from imploding bubbles in a liquid when excited by sound. I guess he created bubbles of liquid before talking right? You are literally trying to defend the impossible with extremely silly arguments and wrong as well.
Religion talks about the world being formed, god did it. No explanation whatsoever, science knows better https://www.space.com/19175-how-was-earth-formed.html or at least tries to explain it, the bible, as I said numerous times does not explain anything. Good luck with your fraud book.

What science are you actually talking about? I hope not quantum "science" that is only represented by mathematics and has no ressemblence to reality what so ever. Its just a phony science.

Yes a big science mathematic. But it is a provable science.

True and we can't define it by only that as he may have more meaning what he said .The fact that mathematics has no relation in scientific proofs.

Not exactly. Mathematics can speak about the unexisting things in this universe. Universe that is made by God. You need to point out of what actually exist.

You can invent a millions of parralel universes using mathematics. Those are nonexistant.

Mathematics can be a mother of lies that is not of God and that God has none of it within it.

In other words. If you speak about the God universe better be sure to stay within its boudary of truth and facts.

I don't remember where it was written but I heard that Lucifer was an annointed cherub that was to guard from the expansion of the universe, in other words from lie. He betrayed and is now fascinated by the lies. And the lies are outside of the universe. Their places are not of this universe.

Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe.”
– Galileo Galilei –

Mathematics is real science.

After a nice sleep I came to conclusions why our mr. atheist had a go and excuse with his claims.

I had noticed he used an eristic escape. I had made a question that was not precise enough so that he abused its nonprecision.

I had asked. What science knows better than religion. Its obvious that science knows better about science than religion. It devotes more time to it.

Silly me. I should have asked what science knows better than religion about the matters that religion is talking about.

And the only conclusion is as of yet it was not proven to be that science can play God. Period. If it claim the otherwise, you can know they are lying and they know it.

What science vs bible is mostly doing is confirming it.

For example some people claim that those passages are inconsistant:

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

On the first day God spoke. And he had noticed that when he was speaking there was light. Thats because a sound can produce light. Sonulominescence is one of the most profound scientific experiment that proves the God's word.

And there could be a lot of sources of light other the sun. Radiation of matter like sonulomiscence shows is one form of the light. And the separation of light could mean that God's voice was not "heard" in form of trembling (radiation), making a radiation and some parts (of the water's on which the spirits of the God had float above) had trembled before the lord.

Darkness is there where one don't tremble before the lord. Its beutiful passage that science and bible come together.

I am glad that the Bible had inconsistancy like so. It only proves we are making it wrong, we do not tremble before the Lord and we are not enlightened by his word enough.

If Bible was consistent to us - silly people, it would mean its fraud made by a little less silly people that knows how silly people think.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Primack

Joel R. Primack (born July 14, 1945) is a professor of physics and astrophysics at the University of California, Santa Cruz and is a member of the Santa Cruz Institute for Particle Physics.

http://www.nancyellenabrams.com/


The God that Nancy explores -- one that's consistent with science -- unites all of humanity and provides the wisdom and larger sense of meaning that we need to face our future, as well as the future of our damaged planet, together.
 
This is a God with no smoke and mirrors.


"A God That Could Be Real is full of sparkling prose, memorable quotes, and strikingly original insights that have never been brought to the page before, despite the long-running culture wars between organized religion and modern science over God and cosmic knowledge. My family and I spent a long dinner and all of breakfast the next day debating the meaning of this book. Give this book to the other questing minds in your family, and brace yourself for heated discussions."
 
-- Sandra Moore Faber, National
Medal of Science recipient and
University Professor of Astronomy
and Astrophysics, UCSC


http://physics.ucsc.edu/cosmo/primack_abrams/htmlformat/inabeginning.html

"In A Beginning..."

Quantum Cosmology and Kabbalah

Joel R. Primack and Nancy Ellen Abrams





Modern cosmology--the scientific study of the universe

as a whole--no longer sees the universe as an infinite,

changeless arena in which events take place, the way Isaac

Newton did. The universe is an evolving, expanding being,

and its origin is the oldest mystery. For the first time in

possibly a million years of human wondering, we are not

simply imagining the beginning: We are observing it, in

radiation that has been traveling to us since the Big Bang,

possibly bearing information generated even earlier.

Theorists are piecing the data together into humanity's

first verifiable creation story.

Most educated people today have an essentially Newtonian

picture of the universe as a place, devoid of all human

meaning, in which we happen to find ourselves. If people

come to understand the emerging scientific cosmology,

however, they may see from what we know of the early

universe that we actually are part of an extraordinary

adventure. With its mind-expanding imagery, this emerging

cosmology gives us a new cosmic perspective, a powerful

source of awe, and a potential source of meaning in our

everyday lives.






The great miracle of our universe

is that something is happening. Galaxies are evolving. Life

is evolving. We are not just eternal potential--we are a

story.

If you play a drum, the skin vibrates in waves. If you

could get very close to it and slow things down

considerably, you would see the skin forming troughs and

crests, not just one at a time but different waves in

different directions across it, the troughs and crests

adding to each other. The sum of all the waves makes the

"sound." The wrinkles of inflation were the primal, cosmic

sound whose meaning the universe is still expanding to

express. This gives a physical picture of the origin akin to

the phrase at the opening of the Gospel of John: "In the

Beginning was the Word."

The idea that God followed a blueprint which existed

before the universe was created is also found in Jewish

Midrashic literature. Genesis Rabbah 1:1 says: "A ruler

building a palace consults an architect's plans. The

Blessed Holy One, in creating the universe, also worked from

a plan--the Torah."

Hokhmah and Kabbalah

Kabbalah, medieval Jewish mysticism, is the only

traditional cosmology we know of in which the universe was

understood to have begun in a point and expanded. We are not

kabbalists, nor are we trying to promote Kabbalah. We are

not arguing that Kabbalah was prescient or somehow knew

mystically what science is now discovering.

We are

interested in Kabbalah because it developed a set of ideas

describing the origin of an expanding universe and

integrated these ideas into its religious worldview. Can

Kabbalah help us to integrate the scientific concepts we

have been describing into our own culture?

"Kabbalah" means "secret tradition," and its origins are

uncertain. Though its earliest preserved writings date from

the twelfth century, from Provence and later Spain, its

adherents believed it derived from the secret Torah given to

Moses and handed down orally through the most religious Jews

ever since.

The early kabbalists were Jews living at the time when

Moslem culture was transmitting the philosophy and science

of Plato and Aristotle to Europe. Utterly committed to the

reality of the infinite and singular God, Jews began

applying Greek reasoning to long-standing problems of their

religion, especially the question of the nature of God. The

kabbalists used every resource they had--not only reason and

logic but poetry, meditation, and mystical experiences--to

try to understand the nature of God. They believed that they

could learn about God through contemplation of God's

relationship to creation. For this reason, they strove to

grasp the hidden reality behind the opening words of

Genesis.



Kabbalah was a cultural outgrowth of medieval European

Jewish experience. By the time of the European

Enlightenment, Jews who read Descartes and Newton considered

the idea of Sephirot as absurd as angels dancing on the head

of a pin. But Kabbalah is a metaphorical description of a

set of fundamental universal relationships which in light of

modern astrophysics appears closer to reality than the

infinite rectangular space of the Newtonian worldview.




Cosmology and Human Meaning in the Twenty-First Century

In a speech given in Philadelphia on July 4, 1994, on

the state of the world and its prospects, Vaclav Havel said

that the planet is in transition: as vastly different value

systems collide, all consistent value systems are

collapsing. We cannot foresee the results. Science, which

has been the bedrock of industrial civilization for so long,

he said, "fails to connect with the most intrinsic nature of

reality, and with natural human experience. It is now more

a source of disintegration and doubt than a source of

integration and meaning... We may know immeasurably more

about the universe than our ancestors did, and yet it

increasingly seems they knew something more essential about

it than we do, something that escapes us...Paradoxically,

inspiration for the renewal of this lost integrity can once

again be found in science...a science producing ideas that

in a certain sense allow it to transcend its own limits...

Transcendence is the only real alternative to extinction."

The search for scientific truth can be a form of

guidance. It is as divine as any other. The foundation-

building revolution that modern cosmology is undergoing

today, as it seeks a verifiable description of the origin of

the universe, requires that we transcend previous notions of

space, time, and reality. This is the kind of science Havel

is hoping for--a science whose metaphors may allow us to

comprehend terrestrial problems from a cosmic perspective.




http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/Creation-A-Convergence-of-Torah-and-Science.html



Only the big bang theory can account for all these observations, and therefore this theory is now accepted by all mainstrea cosmologists.

The most surprising assertion of the big bang theory is that the universe was literally created from nothing. It is instructive here to quote the world’s leading authorities:

“It seems certain that there was a definite time of creation.”2 Professor Paul Dirac, Nobel laureate from the University of Cambridge

“The instant of creation remains unexplained.”3 Professor Alan Guth, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

“The creation lies outside the scope of the known laws of physics.”4 Professor Stephen Hawking, University of Cambridge

“The big bang is the modern version of creation.”5 Professor Joseph Silk, University of California

Today, it is not possible to carry on a meaningful discussion of cosmology without the creation of the universe assuming a central role. Professor Brian Greene, a theoretical physicist at Columbia University, wrote in 1999: “The modern theory of cosmic origins asserts that the universe erupted from an enormously energetic event, which spewed forth all space and all matter.”6

When cosmologists use the term “creation,” to what are they referring? Precisely what object was created? Scientists have discovered that the universe began with the sudden appearance of an enormous ball of light, commonly called the “primeval light-ball.” This “explosion of light” was dubbed the “big bang” by British astrophysicist Fred Hoyle. The remnant of the initial ball of light was detected in 1965 by two American physicists, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, who were awarded the Nobel Prize for their discovery.


Etc etc


Only brainwashed drones or ignorant "agnostics" are unable to see the connection. .

None of them are "scientist", and are either delusional about religion and/or science, ignorants, or intectually dishonest only defending their bias against religion or science.

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http://www.einsteins-theory-of-relativity-4engineers.com/paradoxes-of-relativity.html


https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/list-of-special-relativity-paradoxes.646135/

http://listosaur.com/science-a-technology/10-classic-paradoxes-in-science/

There are glitches and paradoxes in science too btw ..

It's not like science can produce a coherent set of axioms to explain everything everything either. .

Thinking that science explain all reality and all reality can be explained by "science", or that science is a coherent set of logic axioms is actually being delusional..

To prove it scientifically is very difficult, even I do not think it is possible. But if we connect the technology of science and belief it will not be synchronized. But if you do not believe that the god does not exist, so who is the creator of man? And how does the universe exist? As I've read from some books or from google, the world or the earth created because of chaos that time, but I forget the reference from where. This is a very silly thing to me. But I am sure, when we talk about the gods of many things to deny its existence, and when we believe therein lies our faith. And until the very last day we argue about this, I'm sure there will be no end.

3 things in one link. Rest of this is not even worth mentioning.

Sorry but those things were answered many many times. Most of this is known to me. If you would be sincere to know the answer, you would find it.

Its waaaaay tooo long to waste my time on such a trivialities. If you want to - find 3 the best from this link https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html and I will answer. I wont explain all of those.

To me contradiction in the bible only comes from taking things out the historical context , and switch of reference for what is meant by it.

It's the same problem than wahabites current in Islam trying to litteralize everything leading to non sensical interpretation because of trying to discard the "platonic" dimension of the words.

It's not so much about accurate objective description of reality as in natural science.

Most of the dynamics it describe is a process that can only be observed subjectively.

Ignoring the subjective dimension of interpretation of words is what lead to wahabisme and non sensical appearence of the words.

I fully embrace the illusion of reality  

What cannot be called a pile trash ?.. your super realistic and all knowing version of reality that you want to push on everyone using mostly insult and scorning ?. .

The more important is to recognize the good time of the day, regardless of what the clock says

The spirit can recognize truth or God's word on its own, and it's the thing that mater.

This goodness in words can appear in other words than the ones of jesus. It's even rather impossible to asserts that's it's physical jesus as the "corpus christi" who said what is wrote in the bible.

Plato and Socrates are among the firsts known to emphasis this concept of understanding through active "interpretation" of interaction between two characters, in the sense the actual truth or enlightment doesnt come from learning of the word themselves, but understanding of the dynamics that is being described through the interaction, and the change being triggered by the effect of the words in the dialog.

And there is still a rather continuous string of scholars from egypt/babylon who lead to the concept of christianism, of the logos, trinity, holy spirit, and all those concept were already discussed before the time of jesus.

The problem is there is not a very clear track of this, because babylonian tablets and egyptian hieroglyph and knowledge is still not very well understood, and there is not clear reccord of this outside of old testament, or what is left of greek/hellenistic scholarship, but these concept of the bible, in the sense of what really matter as the active principle of understanding and recognition of truth through the spirit, were already known and studied before, even if very little was left of it in the politics and doctrine of kings and rulers at the time of jesus.

Damn you responded to 1 thing in 1 link. What about all the contradictions in the bible? What about all the other mistakes? Your bible is a pile of trash, don't be delusional.

So he can torture them forever? Your analogy is like a robber trying to rob you with a gun, give me your money or I kill you. Are you really free there? Is that a free choice? Of course is not, no one wants to die but you may not want to give your money to him either. You think all the millions of people that died with the flood wanted to die? Do you not see how absurd that is? If god knew they would pick that, why make them in the first place. It's a loop and it never ends up proving god, it only proves how stupid the concept of god is taking in count the reality we live in.

Why does god want to torture people forever anyways, that's just pointless by the way.

The second ofcourse. I know that without the plato.

You know how they say - Even the clock that does not work, shows the time correctly at the given moment a day.

The thing is more like, do you believe the words of jesus because it's wrote so in the bible, or because the words make sense to you ?

In first case it become more like idolatry of a man.

In the second case it's more like recognition of truth through your own spirit.

It's very important distinction emphasized by plato or socrates.

If its invisible how do you know its unicorn let alone having 3 horns?


That is a nitpicking here. Insects might be reffered as having 4 legs and 2 arms. They use those 2 frontal legs like arms sometimes. Just like Gorrilas sometimes uses only 2 legs not 4. Its nitpicking.

Who cares if someone that is not a matematician had wrote pi number not so precise. God had not wrote the book, it was only inspired.

And yes. Not only the flat earthers thinks the firnament is semisolid. The people that believe the earth is concave like me thinks the same. Before you laugh you must really get to know more about it. It really stand up up to science verification, wheter you believe it or not.

I am such a person that I think everything could be possible until proven wrong, and yes unicorns teleporting are a really easy absurd to be debunked, just like evolution.


Its not about the dogma. Its about degrading the message of christ by putting him in the grinder of hermeneutics.

Christ message is not cryptic. You don't have to do that. For you it might make more sense when you use hermeneutics. I don't deny that. Maybe its worth so little that you have to put labels on it to be worth anything. For me it makes a lot less sense that way.

By the way its important not to add or take from the message. By doing hermeneutics or comparing him with someone - you are doing precisly that.