Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 155. (Read 845582 times)

You act like if all the world started with Aristotle and Arabs.... Give me a break with that ok? Thats an obvious sign of indoctrination by the Jesuits one way or another and their beloved "Saint" Thomas.

He is still the one who started to study object, classify knowledge as science, make observation write encyclopedia etc and the one who wrote metaphysics, which is the starting point of natural science, followed by arab , up to newton who studied deeply alchemy, and he wrote extensively on alchemy too.

He was the closest to the view of natural science in the Greek antiquity. More or less the one who invented natural science.

Methaphysics, natural science & alchemy are very close to each other.

You really think there is a glass firmament in the sky above earth ? Lol

Observations and the experiments is the basis of natural science. Aristotle was more wrong than he was right.

The rest - why should I not be serious? Thats just logic, observation and deduction. Make your own mind if that is worth of taking into account. Or maybe you know only a meditation and yoga techniques.


No. Im talking about the Bible specifically. Maybe some of the Wedas I would consider worth reading and to examine, but with a very critical and sharp mind.

Metaphysics is the basic of natural science.

The first person to coin the term science also wrote the metaphysics. ( aristotle )

Emptying your mind is not "hindu stuff" lol

The thing on firmament ok, are you serious ?    


But otherwise yes there are many truth in ancient texts and scripture

There are another evidences of the Bible credibility. It shows why it is rational to assume, the firnament of heavens in fact does exist, like it is explained in the Bible. Its the Karmans line on 100km above the ground. I will point out on why the glass is likely to be in the sky:



Another scientific evidences came from Ruperth Sheldrake. He had found scientificly that if one person is doing something around the world the other has easier time of learning that thing. Even when they had not physicly met. So its something that our lovely oriental/cabalistic friends are implying, but without all that Hindu "empty your mind" stuff and other metaphysical nonesense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

There are many evidences of biological truth from the Bible. For example every animal can reproduce only within its own kind. Where the kind is for example a dog, where fox, wolf and a dog are dogs etc etc.

So to summarise, there are genetical, biological, geographical, astonomical, physical, antropological and historical evidences of the Bible being right. Probably many many more are to be discovered still.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Rama

Śrī Swāmī Rāma (1925–1996) was an Indian yógī. Several Indian yogis have influenced Westerners including Swami Vivekananda, Ramkrishna Paramhansa, Paramhansa Yogananda and many more. Swami Rama was one of the first yogis, however, to be studied by Western scientists. In the 1960s he was examined by scientists at the Menninger Clinic who studied his ability to voluntarily control bodily processes (such as heartbeat, blood pressure, and body temperature) that are normally considered to be non-voluntary (autonomic).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_nidra#Scientific_evaluation


The swami demonstrated the capacity to enter the various states of consciousness at will, as evidenced by remarkable changes in the electrical activity of his brain. Upon relaxing himself in the laboratory, he first entered the yoga nidra state, producing 70% alpha wave discharge for a predetermined 5 minute period, simply by imagining an empty blue sky with occasional drifting clouds. [7] Next, Swami Rama entered a state of dreaming sleep which was accompanied by slower theta waves for 75% of the subsequent 5 minute test period.[7] This state, which he later described as being "noisy and unpleasant", was attained by "stilling the conscious mind and bringing forth the subconscious". In this state he had the internal experience of desires, ambitions, memories and past images in archetypal form rising sequentially from the subconscious and unconscious with a rush, each archetype occupying his whole awareness.[7]

Finally, the swami entered the state of (usually unconscious) deep sleep, as verified by the emergence of the characteristic pattern of slow rhythm delta waves. However, he remained perfectly aware throughout the entire experimental period.[7] He later recalled the various events which had occurred in the laboratory during the experiment, including all the questions that one of the scientists had asked him during the period of deep delta wave sleep, while his body lay snoring quietly.


http://www.consciouslifestylemag.com/siddhis-attain-yoga-powers/

Mainstream science is not so sure. Many scientists and scholars trained within the Western worldview regard such powers not as supernormal capacities of the human mind, but as superstitions used solely to promote religious faith.


“In Buddhism, these are not miracles in the sense of being supernatural events, any more than the discovery and amazing uses of lasers are miraculous— however they may appear to those ignorant of the nature and potentials of light. Such contemplatives claim to have realized the nature and potentials of consciousness far beyond anything known in contemporary science. What may appear supernatural to a scientist or a layperson may seem perfectly natural to an advanced contemplative, much as certain technological advances may appear miraculous to a contemplative.”

Attaining The Siddhis

“The whole history of science shows us that whenever the educated and scientific men of any age have denied the facts of other investigators on a priori grounds of absurdity or impossibility, the deniers have always been wrong.”

— Alfred Russell Wallace

The Yoga Sutras provide a taxonomy of supernormal mental powers and a means of obtaining them. Today we would classify most of the siddhis as various forms of psychic, or psi, phenomena. Others might be called exceptionally precise means of controlling the mind- body relationship.


Before we begin our scientific examination of the siddhis, it is noteworthy that Patanjali and others specifically highlighted the dangers  of dwelling on the siddhis. Patanjali states in Sutra III.51 a warning that may be translated as:

Avoid invitations to display or identify with any accomplishments in yoga, including the siddhis, even if invited by a respected person, because this can reinforce one’s sense of separate self, leading to ego, pride, and arrogance, and this becomes an impediment toward further spiritual unfoldment. There are many ways that this trap can manifest. If personal pride or greed causes one to be seduced by the ever-present challenge of proving one’s abilities to skeptics, such as using psychic abilities to win a prize, then the power gained by that seduction is likely to corrupt the ethical restraints that are the very first lesson to learn on the eightfold path. That “power corrupts” is an unavoidable truth in human affairs, and the consequences of the fall in this case are profound because the goal of achieving enlightenment, which requires far more discipline than simply developing clairvoyance, is lost. Even if one does not personally identify with an attained siddhi, and instead attributes it to one’s teacher or a particular lineage, the damage is done.

I am sorry but I never believed in gods and they never existed.
All gods were aliens who came from skies to teach something.

It is claimed to be a test but if it really was a scientific test, don't you think we would already hear about this all the time? Don't you think scientists would have applied that to something? Why do you think virtually all scientists do not believe in that kind of stuff if it really was proved to be true? You think they purposely say it's false?

These tests are not stories, they are scientific observations. A measurement of the power of mind.

If only that could make me sleep !  

My adhd is stronger than this 

hey man... wheres my buddy badecker? im having trolling withdrawals!
 looks like his thread got hijacked by some professors of philosophical cure for sleep deprivation    

damn.... i miss horace too  

ahh well back to the bitcoin cash drama!  its far more entertaining than this train wreck

Because it is a huge problem if the researchers already believe in that. How many times did christians claim to find the noah's ark and it turned out to be false? It is the same with them and since there is no concrete evidence a part from eye witnesses and stories there is no point in believing any of it. There are ton of stories about ton of ''paranormal'' phenomena but there is never concrete evidence, just stories. There is no point in believing any of it and I don't gain anything by believing on it either, I don't know what you are getting from it.

Mercury is used to extract gold from ore lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgam_(chemistry)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_extraction
According to de Lecerda and Salomons (1997) mercury was first in use for extraction at about 1000 BC,[7] according to Meech and others (1998), mercury was used in obtaining gold until the latter period of the first millennia.

Amalgamation with mercury was used to enhance recovery, often by adding it directly to the riffle tables, and mercury is still widely used in small diggings across the world


But it was just a simple example of chemicals reaction formulated as algebra, that I though even a simple minded person could understand.

But I guess it was already too much science at once.

https://www.bible.com/fr/bible/111/PRO.16.10-11.niv


10The lips of a king speak as an oracle,
and his mouth does not betray justice.
11Honest scales and balances belong to the Lord;
all the weights in the bag are of his making.


See it's even in your dear bible that you probably forgot to read.


I have many teachers, none of them are self proclaimed Christian simpleton who dont even read their bible.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabir_ibn_Hayyan

Abu Mūsā Jābir ibn Hayyān (Arabic: جابر بن حیان‎‎, Persian: جابر بن حیان‎‎, often given the nisbahs al-Bariqi, al-Azdi, al-Kufi, al-Tusi or al-Sufi; fl. c. 721 – c. 815),[6] also known by the Latinization Geber, was a polymath: a chemist and alchemist, astronomer and astrologer, engineer, geographer, philosopher, physicist, and pharmacist and physician. Born and educated in Tus, he later traveled to Kufa. He is sometimes referred to as the father of early chemistry.


He is also the one who invented algebra in the book of balance.


https://books.google.fr/books?id=l9bgAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=theory+of+balance+in+nature+jabir+algebra&source=bl&ots=NAdcapm1W2&sig=BPo-DB7bApO79tpzxgHgCVND4g8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWofPKuLnVAhWDKsAKHfBODmAQ6AEIMjAE#v=onepage&q&f=false

The paradox of the highest science.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/levi/phs/phs08.htm


PARADOX V.--REASON IS GOD

THIS should be placed first. It is before everything: it is self-existent, it exists even for those who do not know it, as the Sun for the Blind, but to see it, feel it, understand it, this is the triumph of the understanding in man; it is the definite result of all the travail of thought and all the aspirations of Faith.

In the principle is Reason, and Reason is in God, and God is Reason. 2 All is made by it, and without

it is nothing made. It is the true light that enlightens us from our birth: it shines even in the darkness, but the darkness does not close it in.

These words are the oracle of Reason itself, and they occur, as all know, at the commencement of the Gospel of St. John.

Without this Reason nothing exists; everything has its reason for existing, even unreason, 1 which serves as a background to reason as the shadow does to the light.

The reasonable believer is he who believes in a reason greater than knowledge; for the reason, or to speak more correctly the reasoning of each one, is not absolute wisdom.

When I reason ill, I become unreasonable 1; it is not then reason that I should distrust, but my own judgment.

I should turn then willingly to those who know more than I do, but even then I must have reason to believe in their superiority.

To conjecture, at random, what one does not know, and then believe blindly in one's own conjectures, or in those of others, who know no more than ourselves, is to behave like madmen. When we are told that God demands the sacrifice of our reason,

this is to make God, the ideal or despotic idol, of folly.

Reason gives conviction, but rash belief produces only infatuation.


It is quite reasonable to believe in things that one neither sees, touches, nor measures, because manifestly the infinite exists, and one can say not only I believe, but I know that an infinity of things exist which are beyond my reach.

Knowledge being indefinitely progressive, I can believe that I shall one day know that of which I am now ignorant. I have no doubts in regard to what I know thoroughly; I may doubt my knowledge if I know imperfectly, but I cannot have doubts as to a thing of which I know nothing, since it is impossible for me to formulate them.

He who says there is no God, without having defined God in a complete and absolute manner, simply talks nonsense. I wait for his definition, and when he has set this forth after his own fashion, I am certain, beforehand, of being able to say to him, "I agree with you, there is no such God"; but that God is certainly not my God. If he says to me: "Define your God," I should reply, "I will take good care to do nothing of the kind, for a God defined is a God dethroned." 1 Every positive definition is deniable, the Infinite is the undefined. "I believe only in matter,"

That's as good as a bias

Besides not addressing case #1 at all,
You brought up mostly invalid points for the 40 cases, you obviously failed to consider the totality of the evidence and instead focused on prejudices like "the researcher believes in GOD, so he is not reliable". You still hold to the fallacy that survival has been ruled out, you thereby avoid giving a complete account of the evidence. What good is science if you are expecting an outcome and will ignore the results if they do not meet those expectations?

You never replied to my questions about your burden of proof:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19336271

You think that you have no burden of proof in this discussion, that is why you never make an ADEQUATE rebuttal. All the other atheists who argued with me have stopped responding too.

Such a thing only in masonic day dreaming. That was long before arabics ok? Greeks and prior to greeks.


No. I have not invented anything. Im just saying that Bible word is credible. Thats the subject of the topic. At least Im empirically right. You are not about mercury turning to gold.


A guy who believes that mercury can be made into gold have no right to tell me Im indoctrinated. Thats just silly.

Im indoctrinated? The guy that says that there is some mystical balance in nature cannot tell me Im indoctrinated. Every single uneducated person would agree that there is some "balance". While thats just empty words. But who am I kidding. You believe in gold making, empty words having supreme meaning and empty heads having supreme conciousness.

Im indoctrinated. Thats a good one. I dont have a masonic teachers ok? You probably do. I met several such a people like you in my life. Same words, same empty meanings.

I can tell you - you won't know the truth about the stuff you are learning. You will not be allowed to. Only the evil people are allowed to know every single detail. You will remain good and be mislead.

All I know is that Jesus have told me I should not follow the teaching of Pharisee. And caballa is one their teachings. So sorry. But I choose Jesus rather than Pharisee.

Everyone make his own calling.

Yeah they are not speaking about 40 virgins and burning in hell, that must be hard for ypur indoctrinated mind to recognize it as religion.

You are completely mis lead about caballa & alchemy, that's too much to take for your indoctrinated mind lol

Arabic invented science lol

trigo, algebra, astronomy, chemistry etc. All sciences .

You invented the moon  sabath science, congratulations simpleton. You ll go far with this.

But I would not have expected you to read much other than the 3 pages of your bible conforting you in your simple minded view of the universe.

10The lips of a king speak as an oracle,
and his mouth does not betray justice.
11Honest scales and balances belong to the Lord;
all the weights in the bag are of his making.

God will have the last laugh here.

For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Not that Im on to something but don't be too hasty to judge others. He might be a fool, but the wisdom of the wise shall be destroyed.

One of the proof of the God existance is that the moon calendar is always observably true. There are always 4 sabaths and one and a half of new moon feasting every moon time. And after the six years there should be a seventh sabath year that fixes the periods of the years. Its more accurate than the sun calendar we are using today.

It does not prove the God existance per se. But it proves its accurate astronomicly. And proves Bible is accurate and still valid in our modern times of scepticism.

Another one is that the original four rivers could be traced with their origin on the mount Ararat and those are in the middle east and are giving the origin to the three oceans and one middle terraneum sea that is considered to be the Eufrates. Thats just a theory that states that those rivers of garden of eden contains all waters of the earth.