Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 159. (Read 845650 times)
actually i belive Gods, even without science
Claiming that everything outside the universe needs no cause doesn't make it true.
The claim isn't what makes it true. The fact that if it has a cause, it is part of our universe. This is what makes it true.
In other words, show us something that is not part of the universe, yet has a cause.
How would I do that? Have you studied something that is outside the universe? If it has a cause it's a part of the universe and if it doesn't, it's not? How do you know all this, maybe you are god.
Claiming that everything outside the universe needs no cause doesn't make it true.
The claim isn't what makes it true. The fact that if it has a cause, it is part of our universe. This is what makes it true.
In other words, show us something that is not part of the universe, yet has a cause.
I do not know what, but I am very concerned about the directions of atheism in humanity. Blasphemy is a very great sin and it seems to me that today the whole planet suffers from this disease.
Believing in the bible is also a sin in other religions so i don't know about the directions of christianity. Believing in other gods is a great sin and it seems to me that everyone believes in different gods.
Searching for truth in honest maner always converge to the same things.
Believing in the bible is sin in which religion ? Your's ?
All religions agree on many things, only the impurity in the individual understanding create divergence.
Or cultural indoctrination that goes against the teaching.
I do not know what, but I am very concerned about the directions of atheism in humanity. Blasphemy is a very great sin and it seems to me that today the whole planet suffers from this disease.
Believing in the bible is also a sin in other religions so i don't know about the directions of christianity. Believing in other gods is a great sin and it seems to me that everyone believes in different gods.
I do not know what, but I am very concerned about the directions of atheism in humanity. Blasphemy is a very great sin and it seems to me that today the whole planet suffers from this disease.
Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10718395
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16803380.
You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.
"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.
Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.
You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?
Cause is only something that applies to this universe. In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.
God doesn't have a cause. You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
''In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.'' - Badecker 2017
Why would things outside the universe have no cause? How can you possibly know that? You are claiming to know things that are impossible to know, you are a joke.
You are so funny. You write the answer to your question. Then you ask the question right below it.
In the past you would ask a question, the answer to which was written several posts up. Now you are asking the question directly following its answer.
You are becoming rather humorous.
Claiming that everything outside the universe needs no cause doesn't make it true.
Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10718395
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16803380.
You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.
"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.
Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.
You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?
Cause is only something that applies to this universe. In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.
God doesn't have a cause. You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
''In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.'' - Badecker 2017
Why would things outside the universe have no cause? How can you possibly know that? You are claiming to know things that are impossible to know, you are a joke.
You are so funny. You write the answer to your question. Then you ask the question right below it.
In the past you would ask a question, the answer to which was written several posts up. Now you are asking the question directly following its answer.
You are becoming rather humorous.
Actually it doesnt matter if science proof that God exist or not. What matters the most is you are believing that God exist. Even if you do not see God visually but in your heart, He is true. Just keep your faith towards Him, do not doubt in His words and plans to you.
But people die and God lives forever. So it doesn't really matter what you believe... except if it matters to the emotional heart of God.
Need to read the kaballah with the original void 
All religion with god In heaven and angels as messenger are derived from the kaballah.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah#Tzimtzum.2C_Shevirah_and_Tikkun
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/kabbalah/Creation/creation.html
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Realism/realism.html
All religion with god In heaven and angels as messenger are derived from the kaballah.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah#Tzimtzum.2C_Shevirah_and_Tikkun
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/kabbalah/Creation/creation.html
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Realism/realism.html
Actually it doesnt matter if science proof that God exist or not. What matters the most is you are believing that God exist. Even if you do not see God visually but in your heart, He is true. Just keep your faith towards Him, do not doubt in His words and plans to you.
Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10718395
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16803380.
You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.
"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.
Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.
You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?
Cause is only something that applies to this universe. In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.
God doesn't have a cause. You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
''In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.'' - Badecker 2017
Why would things outside the universe have no cause? How can you possibly know that? You are claiming to know things that are impossible to know, you are a joke.
Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10718395
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16803380.
You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.
"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.
Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.
You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?
Cause is only something that applies to this universe. In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.
God doesn't have a cause. You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10718395
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16803380.
You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.
"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.
Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.
You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?
Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10718395
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16803380.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10718395
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16803380.
I will quote from valerian as i just saw it lol
Love without limit, very cheap is the love that can be counted
This can apply for god too
I have heard some lucid explanations for how "infinity became aware"; consider this:
The One Infinite Creator
The Law of One states that there is only one, and that one is the Infinite Creator (4.20), which Ra also calls “Infinite Intelligence” and “Intelligent Infinity.” It is impossible to describe the “one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole,” but It can be activated or potentiated (28.1). Each portion of the creation contains, paradoxically, the whole (13.13).
Illusion
Since all is one, all manifestation, or appearance of many-ness, is an illusion (1.6, 106.23). According to Ra, it is an illusion carefully engineered in order to give the Creator the opportunity to know Itself (27.17).
http://www.lawofone.info/synopsis.php
Philosophical Materialism is the philosophy of atheist scientists. I also claim that all rational atheists are humanists and that humanism is false based on readily available evidence.
Those principle come from platonism or neo platonism.
Like plotinus
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotinus
"Materialism" is more or less aristotle metaphysics / natural science / empirism.
"Rationalism" is more or less socratic/platonic/euclidian .
The thing of the illusion of changing appearence vs permanent truth is from parmenides.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmenides
All conceptions of reality are the result of a mental process, no more no less.
Cultivating the mental process of understanding ( aka rationalism ) is more important than cultivating memory of facts ( aka empirism ).
The concept of true or false can be interpreted both in term of factual evidence, or in the context of rational analysis like euclidian axiomatic reasoning.
In the context of axiomatic reasoning, truth is not about "factual evidence" but about logical deduction from axioms.
There is no "factual evidence" that 1+1=2, arithmetics, or to euclidian geometric principle, just logical deduction from axioms.
Riemann show very well the problematics of finding the good axiomatic model or geometry / space to describe physics, as there is no manner to demonstrate which geometry or axioms are true or false in themselves as far as physics is concerned.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemannian_geometry
http://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783319260402
On the Hypotheses Which Lie at the Bases of Geometry.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_universe
Relativity is special case of riemannian geometry, and show to be the more accurate model of space that correspond to physics so far.
Before riemann it was assumed euclidian geometry and axioms were more or less same than truth or physics.
Humanism is quite subjective concept, but it would be often considered platonic or socratic model are more humanist, they lead to republic in politics, "science" derived from empirism, aka interpretation of facts lead to oligarchy, as long as this interpretation cannot be demonstrated rationally.
For plato truth is deeply related to good or justice, and concerned with humanism.
"I don’t think the brain came in the Darwinian manner. In fact, it is disprovable. Simple mechanism can’t yield the brain. I think the basic elements of the universe are simple. Life force is a primitive element of the universe and it obeys certain laws of action. These laws are not simple, and they are not mechanical. "
There are some good demonstration of this problematics in this book.
Between Leibniz, Newton, and Kant: Philosophy and Science in the Eighteenth
https://books.google.fr/books?id=D5fcBQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT118&dq=leibniz%20mechanics%20vs%20newton&pg=PT21#v=onepage&q&f=false
said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself. There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Things can exist as unmanifested "pure potential" before they "exists" as in manifesting themselves.
It's not because we dont understand the cause or reason that there isnt one.
Time is one dimension in the 4d space according to relativity, and is affected by the nature of space itself.
God is not "sitting in the clouds" but exist as idea in the sky = mental plane = realm of idea.
The One Infinite Creator
The Law of One states that there is only one, and that one is the Infinite Creator (4.20), which Ra also calls “Infinite Intelligence” and “Intelligent Infinity.” It is impossible to describe the “one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole,” but It can be activated or potentiated (28.1). Each portion of the creation contains, paradoxically, the whole (13.13).
Illusion
Since all is one, all manifestation, or appearance of many-ness, is an illusion (1.6, 106.23). According to Ra, it is an illusion carefully engineered in order to give the Creator the opportunity to know Itself (27.17).
http://www.lawofone.info/synopsis.php
Philosophical Materialism is the philosophy of atheist scientists. I also claim that all rational atheists are humanists and that humanism is false based on readily available evidence.
"I don’t think the brain came in the Darwinian manner. In fact, it is disprovable. Simple mechanism can’t yield the brain. I think the basic elements of the universe are simple. Life force is a primitive element of the universe and it obeys certain laws of action. These laws are not simple, and they are not mechanical. "
said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself. There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Things can exist as unmanifested "pure potential" before they "exists" as in manifesting themselves.
It's not because we dont understand the cause or reason that there isnt one.
Time is one dimension in the 4d space according to relativity, and is affected by the nature of space itself.
God is not "sitting in the clouds" but exist as idea in the sky = mental plane = realm of idea.
Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.
Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.
I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol
Kinda show something too ..
It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world
French : always complaining, never happy, always needs more.
American : more or less same.
Drama drama.
Money money.
The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol
Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.
As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.
Specially in developed country, it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.
And nature already provide enough food .
Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10718395
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16803380.
You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?
Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)
Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.
"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.
Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.
You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.
As a scientist it is impossible to disprove the existence of God but current evidence is non-existence. If God does exist though, what a bastard they are for letting children die of illness, famine and poverty.
Well said.
This is why I am Agnostic
What a bastard you are for letting all those children die of starvation
Huh?
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