Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 251. (Read 845582 times)

Is your world in chaos? Maybe your way and wisdom didn't work? So what gives you the right to pound and pounce on mine? You never even read any of the other gospels and still you insist that you have the complete Bible, which is ironically the same Bible that is promoted by the Church of Rome since ancient times.

Also: GOD TERRORIZES A CHILD IN THE BINDING OF ISAAC AND YOU BLINDLY CALL IT GOOD?
THAT is one of the reasons why atheists hate religion.

OK, you have one gospel where it seems like Jesus is savior. Why should we pick that gospel and ignore all the others? Because the Church of Rome approved it??


Actually, Jesus urged you not to worship him.
Did you never read any of the 24 gospels that were left out of the Bible?

Well, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

The Bible and Christianity are acknowledged worldwide, even in may Islamic and other religious cultures. The Phoenix Journals can't seem to get off the ground.

Just because you won't acknowledge the words of John in the Bible, that show that Jesus expressly taught salvation through Himself - even though that teaching was often in parable form - doesn't mean those words aren't there.

Your religion. Jesus holds the choice open for you.

This is more post-hoc reasoning. Your argument is like so:
These books are in the Bible because they are the true teaching of God.
Thus, whoever left out those other books must have done so because they are not as true.

You do not examine the possibility that the true cause of those books being in the Bible is that the Church of Rome wanted them in there. Satan is not my buddy because I RECOGNIZE that these books are promoted by the adversary. Do you?

How would you know that some knowledge is not needed if you have not read it and dismiss it offhand?
You would have to be respecting someone else's OPINION in not reading knowledge.
So you are just accepting the Church of Rome's authority for what should go in the Bible, you have done no independent thinking or study to determine that something is not needed because it does not fit, you just assume that what you have in front of you is 100% true because the Church of Rome authorities never allowed you a look at any other material. No way can you come to a conclusion about a book by NOT READING IT.

I am obligated to use reason. If the Bible is flawed, then it is NOT INERRANT. It is obviously tampered and totally incomplete with only 4 of 28 gospels, therefore it is flawed and NOT INERRANT. How could GOD terrorize a child??

You should start to doubt the claim that GOD RE-WROTE the Bible to make it perfect. Nothing of this world is perfect, BADecker.

There is no such thing as "Jesus salvation".

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say that the way to goodness and life is "through me, Jesus". In fact, he says that "God's Kingdom is not here (i.e. within Jesus), and it is not there (i.e. somewhere else); GOD'S KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU". So repentance and forgiveness must begin within self, for that is where God resides--within YOU! Furthermore, if you read the other gospels, you will get the message, but the Church authorities picked only a few gospels to mislead you. You probably already know that the biggest lies are 90% truth!

That's more or less correct, since it wouldn't be a lie added by man if it were in the Bible. If it were in only a copy or two, it might be a lie. But if it were in the vast majority of copies, it would not be a lie. It would be, as it is, God's Word.


You are wrong. There isn't any magic in the Bible. There is only God's Word. When you happen to become so great that you understand and are able to use enough logic and knowledge to keep yourself alive much longer than 100 years - like 1,000 years - then you might have enough reasoning ability to determine that your logic is a bit better than that of someone else. (BTW, Satan does have a lot of knowledge, and has kept himself alive for thousands of years. Aren't you going to ask him how? After all, wouldn't your good buddy, Satan, offer some of that knowledge to you?)

Until that time, recognize that your logic is flawed if you don't accept Bible logic. Why? Because Bible logic has proven itself over and over to be the truth down through the ages.


No matter who left other books out of the Bible, it was because those books were flawed with regard to the uniform knowledge that the Bible contains - the teaching of God that is in the Bible. This is available for anyone to examine.

Thus, why play around with things not needed? The Bible is self-sufficient, no matter if you repeat the same things over and over with multitudes of additional books. The point is salvation through Jesus, and the Bible is well sufficient for that as it is.


Well, what does this have to do with Bible tampering? You seem to like the idea of tampering with the Bible. You would even mess up the teachings of salvation by making your stupid Phoenix Journals that teach works righteousness into the way of salvation.

If the Bible happened to be flawed a little, you want to go all the way into that which is false by getting rid of the truth of the Bible.


Of course the Kingdom of God within you is true... if you are a Bible-believing Christian. Jesus even said such. You repeat this over and over all the time. The fact that you do this is that you are constantly trying to corrupt the way of salvation for people. How big of a cut on Phoenix Journals that you sell are you getting?

Since it is the Bible that shows salvation, thereby making the Kingdom of God to be in those who are saved by Bible salvation, the Kingdom of God is in the Bible as well. The Bible has no saying that says it is not.

The beginning of the Book of John shows that Jesus is the Word of God. So, when you get into the Bible, and get some of the Word into yourself, you are getting into the Word, and are getting some of the Word into yourself. That is how the Kingdom of God is in you as well as you being in the Kingdom of God.

The funny part is, since you have read some of the Bible, the Kingdom of God is working in you to convert you to the salvation of Jesus, the Word. Ha, ha, ha. You can't fight it. Either convert, or you will die.


Huh? I have constantly said that there is a greater body than the physical body, a spiritual body, and that it is even possible that our memories are stored there. Why are you attempting to slander me in some silly way that is backfiring on you? It's probably because you don't have any foundation for the things that you tout.


God is the One Who controls the Bible and what is written therein. Thus the Bible is inerrant even if it changes 100%. But, because God wants stability, the Bible has not changed. There simply are additional books and stories that are trying tho do the same thing that you do to some extent... ad themselves to the Bible.

Neither your false claims of salvation by works righteousness, nor your works righteousness will ever save you. You aren't good enough. You need the proffered perfection of Jesus for salvation. Every day you wait, you are coming closer to losing yourself forever.



Whew! How much time is it going to take for the minimal quality of the Phoenix Journals to dissipate completely? The more of them that are written, the crazier they become.

You don't have anything that can stand up to the good works of Islam. With the coming Armageddon between Islam and the free world - in particular, with Christianity - when your buddy, Satan, takes over for a little while, then my Jesus will return and destroy Satan, Islam, and all good-works religions at the same time.

You really need to convert to Christianity now, while you have a chance. If you wait until after the return of Jesus, it will be too late for you.

I do not wish to surrender my discernment to any one set of texts, that is totally irrational.
I would FAR rather READ IT ALL and judge in wisdom of knowledge. That is called "using God's gift of reason".

According to YOU, ANYTHING could be in the Bible and it is still valid, even if it is a LIE added by man:


Wow, how convenient! No need to think critically or even rationally, just use post-hoc reasoning and believe that ALL of history aligns to your worldview and your magical thinking. There must be some kind of magic in that book you call Bible!

Since you like to study the Bible so much, why don't YOU stop being SO NARROW in your "studies" and read the 24 other Gospels that you missed? Oh, I see that you won't accept anything from those other books because the Church of Rome did not accept them into the official canon of "inerrant ancient writings" and declared them to be heresies? Wow! You will get nowhere in your studies with that attitude.

You are an intellectual child, BADecker. At least MMH has enough critical thinking to realize that the Bible has been tampered with. You are totally into magical thinking and using post-hoc reasoning to justify your "perfect book" which is actually full of LIES added by man. Jesus tried to tell you that God's kingdom is within YOU, but you choose to think that God's kingdom of perfection is within the Bible. What folly! You are just like those scientists who search for consciousness within the structures of the brain; you seek out the radio announcer inside the radio; what part of "God's kingdom is within YOU" is so hard to understand? Your narrow-mindedness will not EVER lead you to KNOWLEDGE, and your faith in GOD'S WORD is in error if you think that the BIBLE is inerrant. It is NOT, and you are promoting a horrible lie that does not stand up to reason nor even basic moral scrutiny (the Binding of Isaac is an OT story that has God terrorizing a child; how could that story be true if God is morally good?).

No need to post your irrational opinion in this thread until you have faced the facts about your narrow-minded and fallacious claims about the Bible. God intervened to make that book perfect? NO WAY, THE QUALITY OF ANY ISOLATED MESSAGE DECREASES OVER TIME, AND THAT IS A LAW OF NATURE.

Based on hard evidence i.e. blocks of pure water that fell from the sky I'd say the whole universe is mostly water.

Since you ignore the Bible explanations that show how Jesus says that He is the way, the truth, and the life... and you ignore that the Kingdom of God is within the people that believe Jesus salvation... you are simply of a different religion. If you happen to use the term Christian regarding yourself, it is with reference to a tainted meaning.

Now you are really talking silly.

What do you think the whole universe is? It is an artificial construct made by God. The Heaven of Heavens is the reality.

Repentance is done by people all the time. If someone is walking down the sidewalk in one direction, and he repents, that means that he turns around and goes the other way.

The only repentance that keeps a person from perishing in finality is, the repentance of unbelief in Jesus God as Savior. If you want to be saved, repent and believe... that is, repent from not believing to believing. In what should you believe? In the salvation offered by Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Formerly you didn't believe in Jesus salvation. Then you repented. You repented by becoming a believer in Jesus salvation. Then you repented from evil works and did good deeds.

Since you like to play with the Bible so much, why don't you repent by becoming a believer of it?

Once you understand that we're living on a flat earth underneath artificially constructed dome, this whole thread becomes an exercise in foolishness.

How would you know what yoga teaches if you have not even read a single book on yoga?

And moreover, how would you know what Jesus taught if you have only read 4 of 28 gospels?  

And what is a Christian?
The action that makes one a Christian also make one a member of Christ's church.
What is that action? My conclusion, which may be different from yours, is that it is found in Luke 13:3
"And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God."

Therefore, the way to goodness and life comes through repentance and obedience to God. Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say that the way to goodness and life is "through me, Jesus". In fact, he says that "God's Kingdom is not here (i.e. within Jesus), and it is not there (i.e. somewhere else); GOD'S KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU". So repentance and forgiveness must begin within self, for that is where God resides--within YOU!

Again, the Bible is NOT basically meant to be a history book. Nor is meant to be a book of things like Yoga.

Simply because the Bible has laws it, doesn't mean that some of these laws cannot be found in places like Yoga. Good laws and understandings are found all over the world, in all kinds of writings, and in all kinds of societies.

The point of the Bible is that God made all the laws, and set them in peoples' hearts, and then re-gave the best of them through Moses because people were forgetting them. The whole idea behind doing this was to prepare the setting for the Savior, Jesus Christ.

In other words, the laws for living can be found in many places. But the law for eternal life can only be found from one source, the Bible. You, yourself, said above that Jesus sent apostles to India. Why not honor the Bible, the only source that tells about Jesus Christ, the only salvation, even though there have been many books written about Him.

Yoga and its writings have been around a long time. Yoga existed long before Jesus came... even before the time of Moses. Yet it never had any exact information about Jesus. The best it had was some symbolism about how there might come a time of salvation. If there are writings in Yoga that have incorporated Jesus into Yoga, written at a time following the time of Jesus, great. Now, get into the Bible and find the details.

Laws and wisdom of earth and science - like how many Chakras are in the body - don't have anything to do with salvation. They exist with or without salvation. Jesus is the only way of salvation. In fact, one of the old meanings of the word, "Nicolaitans," in the Revelation is, the people who combine Christianity with Eastern religions. People who practice Yoga regularly, have essentially turned it into an eastern religion.

Keep Yoga separate from Christianity, because it IS separate from Christianity. Yoga teaches good living in this life. Christianity teach the only way to everlasting life, through Jesus.

Play with Yoga all you want. Learn all the knowledge of the secrets of the universe that you can find. But in you learning, remember to rely on the things of the Bible, or you will lose everything.

Mate, I have a question for you... Did you read and analyze the whole Bible?

Because, if you did it I am sure that you will not wrote this things about Yoga. Everything that is mentioned in the Yoga you can find in the Bible. In the New Testament, when Christ rose from the dead he send the apostles in the different area of the world to spread The Holy Scripture. Do you know which apostle was send in India?

How many chakras are in the body? How many commandments there are? How many apostles are? The answer of the three question is 12! Everything that is is mention in the Bible is always connected with the number 12! Do you think that there isn't some logic here?

I am sure that any person who will first read about the Yoga and then start to read the Bible (New Testament) will understand the acts of the apostles.

Long thread. I admit I have not read all of the posts, or even most of them.

The scientific method is based in part on observation and repeatability. Those seem to rule out being able to scientifically prove the existence of God, but that does not mean God doesn't exist.

I think about it like this: how much of the universe do we know about? How much of the things in what little we do know about, do we have an extremely good understanding of? Very, very little. In all of human history, in only the last 150 years did we know about germs, airplanes, space travel, heart transplants, deep space exploration, etc.

So, it's safe to say that at the very most, we know 2% of everything in the universe. That's being generous.

Is it not possible that somewhere in the other 98% there is enough evidence for God? If you say "yes" to that, then you're an agnostic (or were already convinced that God exists). If you say "no," then you're an atheist.

Ben Stein's "Expelled" movie was interesting. He interviews several top physicists and other scientists. Some don't believe in God, some do, and some believe there is enough evidence already available for a higher power that must exist. It's worth watching if you're interested in this subject, imho.

I've talked with many varieties of Christians and while they say there is scientific evidence, they admit that it comes down to faith. I believe it comes down to faith in any belief, whether in religion or in evolution (there are many problems with this theory so it ultimately comes down to faith too).

So looking for a scientific answer to a religious question may not be the best approach. I believe it is one approach and that it should be used and investigated, but to stop there seems to be limiting the pool of possible answers.  I do believe God exists.

Do you mow your lawn? If you do, you are a terrorist. But it is okay, because you own that lawn.

Do you eat beef? The meat packers slaughter beef by the thousands for people to eat. Yet they have the right, because they own the beef.

God made and owns all people. But what good are people who don't live up to the purposes that He created them for? Yet God is merciful, giving rain in its day, and crops for food, air to breathe, sunlight and joy.

Then when the people go about to destroy themselves by disobeying their laws of life, God goes so far that He prepared His own Son to take death for them. After God raised His Son from the dead, both the Father and the Son offer people the eternal life back that they threw away the first time around. But the people throw this chance away, as well.

What can God do when people are out there to genocide themselves? All they do is complain that God doesn't give them life. Yet when they are offered life by God, they don't accept it.

It isn't God's fault. It is your own fault.

You said it, not me. In my opinion genocide isn't in the best interests of all, but I've honestly had enough with your clown show trying to help you understand basic logic beyond that of a toddler.
So I'll leave that at that my friend.

Thank You,
Viz.

The way I used the word "dictation," was in quotes. This means that the word does not have the exact dictionary definition of the word, but that it is similar.

However, God is a dictator in the sense that He owns everything, because He made it all, and controls it all in the way He wants. In His method of control He offers much freedom to people.


Since God is alive, and since He has the ability to think and comprehend much better than people do, your analogy is false. God is proactive way beyond anything we can comprehend. He doesn't simply sit there like the sun, and shine on things.

My post at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13023742 shows you not only that God exists, but also that he is a much greater thinker than we are. Of course, it won't jump right out at you. You will need to think about it a bit to understand it.

Before people fell into sin, the commands for doing what was right and what was wrong were built into their hearts and minds. They did them automatically.

The commands that God has given to people after they fell into sin, are commands for the benefit of the people, if the people adhere to the commands, because they have forgotten much of the pre-sin commands. A great part of the commands exists to show the people that, since they fell into sin, they can't obey the commands perfectly, and that they will be destroyed by their inability. God also shows the people that He has provided a Savior for them, One who will save them from death, ultimately. This Savior is His Son, Jesus, the Christ.



You don't go far enough back in your idea of "nurturance." Ahead of the nurturance is God, supplying it and holding it in place, through nature and the universe He has made. God's idea wasn't to destroy the universe or people. If that was the case, He wouldn't have made it all in the first place. Destruction was the devil's idea. Mankind picked up the devil's idea and ran with it. God, however, is showing both the devil and people that He is stronger. And, yet, he will give them the thing that they have asked for - destruction of this universe. But, He will do it in His own time, and His own way.

Science at its base is simply the gathering and examining of information. There is so extremely much information in this universe, that people are having a difficult time in gathering it, and an even more difficult time in understanding it. In addition, it seems that there is universe science that people cannot find out. That's part of the reason they have turned science into an informal religion, making all kinds of theories that they can't prove, and probably will never be able to prove.

Let's look at your key word:

dic·ta·tion
dikˈtāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: dictation; noun: dict.
    2.
    the action of giving orders authoritatively or categorically.


dic·ta·tor
ˈdikˌtādər/
noun
noun: dictator; plural noun: dictators

    1.
    a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained power by force.

I hope you see your errors in your calculations of the words in my last statement, with your number of 0 for sun, and also to really see the definitions of what you are preaching, which is of course rooted in your word "dictation" which I can see you spinning around speculating that it is the "Dictation of text", but if you were to go that route, make sure it is consistent with one of the cores of the bible:

com·mand
kəˈmand/
verb
verb: command; 3rd person present: commands; past tense: commanded; past participle: commanded; gerund or present participle: commanding

    1.
    give an authoritative order.
    "a gruff voice commanded us to enter"
    synonyms:   order, tell, direct, instruct, call on, require; literarybid
    "he commanded his men to retreat"

Essentially the god in your bible, has issued commands, but in my analogy that's like saying the sun issues commands for the world to receive its light. Light knows not of distinguishing anything being more "worth" its rays, it just shines... It doesn't issue commands saying "though shalt not drink water, or my light shall not shine on thee". It simply shines, without seeing any piece of particulate matter being more worthy of its rays, the matter is what chooses to receive the Light by the place and time it chooses to be in.

This is the error I see in your theology, that the nurturance that is given to all life is distinguished by that force of nurturance. It's like saying water only hydrates those that deserve it, food only gives energy to those that deserve it. When in truth it is the receiver of the nurturance that decides if they want to be nourished, such as someone choosing to drink water or eat food or plant a seed to let the sunlight grow it. Of course I can see you saying the bible is that nurturance, which to an extent can be true, but that's like saying there is only one food to eat, such as bread. Or that there is only one type of wine, or that there is only one type of fruit. There are many ways in which people find nurturance of their minds, science can be another. To say one is correct and the only absolute is only to delude yourself of reality, just as another saying the same to you carries the weight of the same truth.

Thank You,
Viz.

I didn't know if you were commenting to me or not, so I searched for the words of your quote, above, in the things we had been posting. The words, "the, on, that," and, "it," are very common words. So I left them out of my search. The results of the other words are as follows. Incidents of:
sun = 0;
only = 4;
shines = 0;
those = 6;
deserve = 0.

None of the words that were found were talking about sunshine at all. However, with regard to what the sun shines on, it doesn't shine on everything. It only shines on the surface of many things. And nothing on earth gets sunshine on it 100% of the time.

I question if you were talking to me, and what you were talking about in that post^^.

God did a special kind of spiritual "dictation" when He gave the info to the people who wrote the Bible. The gifts of God are for everyone, for a time, to give them a chance to turn to Him. When enough time has passed, all people die.

No matter the people, God gives some gifts to all. Then they die and await the resurrection where they will find out from God what His judgment will be on the way they accepted and used His gifts in the life that He had given them.