[SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 431.

child_harold

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smooth on December 26, 2014, 07:28:52 PM

Quote from: dasource on December 26, 2014, 02:35:39 PM

Guys/Gals, can we please please stop getting carried away with this shadow and cryptonote... Shadow is not based on cryptonote and does not function like cryptonote!

Sorry, but you are incorrect. It is using the exact same techniques of one time ring signatures (intractability) and stealth addresses (unlinkability). The code may be brand new but the cryptography techniques and math behind the one time ring signatures are the same (which include the zero knowledge proof) and were invented by cryptonote.

I could go and rewrite the code to do this stuff yet again (in fact I have done so for my own experimental purposes) but I wouldn't claim it to be anything other than a reimplementation of cryptonote. Someone else on the Monero project did it in python, and called it mininero.

If anyone is claiming otherwise they are either confused or trying to scam you (I don't suggest the latter necessarily, just pointing out the possibilities).

Quote from: smooth on December 27, 2014, 12:06:25 AM

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 09:38:05 PM

Quote from: smooth on December 26, 2014, 09:09:26 PM

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 08:36:42 PM

SDC is only a few months old mate this is not the final product it will be improved and right now it's as good if not better then anything else out there, that being said please stop talking about monero this is the SDC thread and everyone of your posts mentions it

I mention it only in response to others who do so, particularly when the statements are incorrect. Example:

Quote from: Fujireloaded on December 26, 2014, 03:49:59 PM

with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Quote

then xmr

Now you are doing it. Why?

I never mentioned it once here until you started talking about it the other day anyways just seams like subtle advertisement to me, carry on, not looking for a back and forth.

There is no advertisement, I'm just having a semi-technical discussion, and people seem to frequently ask about SDC compared to other coins, so those other coins come up. DRK has come up as well, and I'm certainly not advertising for that.

Thanks smooth for coming to discuss the tech. Unfortunately Ryno has been unavailable for comment (since he's celebing xmas/sleeping/whatever) BUT I am hopeful he'll be making an appearance today.

Regarding this line of yours: "If anyone is claiming otherwise [of ssv2 being like cryptonote] they are either confused or trying to scam you (I don't suggest the latter necessarily, just pointing out the possibilities)".

there is no way dasourec is trying to scam anybody. he is sound and in the Team iirc. we can discount that. I suppose confusion is a possibility (although unlikely since he's a smart cookie), but so is you not being in possession of all the facts.

I look forward to hearing from the Team and Ryno in particular regarding shadowsend's similarity (or not) to cryptonote, and more info regarding the inner workings of SSv2.

There's lots of people still scratching their heads about what exactly has been achieved (I know I am). Certainly nobody has studied the code in any great detail and the paper is terse, so some further education would be most helpful.

Thanks.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 09:38:05 PM

Quote from: smooth on December 26, 2014, 09:09:26 PM

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 08:36:42 PM

SDC is only a few months old mate this is not the final product it will be improved and right now it's as good if not better then anything else out there, that being said please stop talking about monero this is the SDC thread and everyone of your posts mentions it

I mention it only in response to others who do so, particularly when the statements are incorrect. Example:

Quote from: Fujireloaded on December 26, 2014, 03:49:59 PM

with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Quote

then xmr

Now you are doing it. Why?

I never mentioned it once here until you started talking about it the other day anyways just seams like subtle advertisement to me, carry on, not looking for a back and forth.

There is no advertisement, I'm just having a semi-technical discussion, and people seem to frequently ask about SDC compared to other coins, so those other coins come up. DRK has come up as well, and I'm certainly not advertising for that.

dadon

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1002

Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.

Quote from: Hueristic on December 26, 2014, 10:19:24 PM

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 09:38:05 PM

Quote from: smooth on December 26, 2014, 09:09:26 PM

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 08:36:42 PM

SDC is only a few months old mate this is not the final product it will be improved and right now it's as good if not better then anything else out there, that being said please stop talking about monero this is the SDC thread and everyone of your posts mentions it

I mention it only in response to others who do so, particularly when the statements are incorrect. Example:

Quote from: Fujireloaded on December 26, 2014, 03:49:59 PM

with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Quote

then xmr

Now you are doing it. Why?

I never mentioned it once here until you started talking about it the other day anyways just seams like subtle advertisement to me, carry on, not looking for a back and forth.

You probably missed this post.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9947874

yep sure did i don't go on that thread anymore, only here.

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 09:38:05 PM

Quote from: smooth on December 26, 2014, 09:09:26 PM

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 08:36:42 PM

SDC is only a few months old mate this is not the final product it will be improved and right now it's as good if not better then anything else out there, that being said please stop talking about monero this is the SDC thread and everyone of your posts mentions it

I mention it only in response to others who do so, particularly when the statements are incorrect. Example:

Quote from: Fujireloaded on December 26, 2014, 03:49:59 PM

with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Quote

then xmr

Now you are doing it. Why?

I never mentioned it once here until you started talking about it the other day anyways just seams like subtle advertisement to me, carry on, not looking for a back and forth.

You probably missed this post.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9947874

MoonDusk

member

Activity: 89

Merit: 10

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 08:36:42 PM

SDC is only a few months old mate this is not the final product it will be improved and right now it's as good if not better then anything else out there, that being said please stop talking about monero this is the SDC thread and everyone of your posts mentions it, you made your point, there are similarity's but were not done and we have done more in 4 months then xmr have in like 6 months really they haven't done much at all apart from change there name it's really not that impressive i bought in at the start and have been watching them all i see is promises and no delivery, here i see no promises only delivery, face it, there is almost no coin out there that has done what the SDC team did in 4 months, it's insulting comparing SDC to other coins, there just not even in the same league, xmr is bytecoin with less coins and smaller pre-mine apart from put an X in there name what have they actually done? and i mean delivered not promised or currently working on, delivered, this is why SDC is better in every way, sorry to carry on but this is the SDC thread, you should expect it.

I agree. The amount of coding hours the devs put into this in immense and the pretty each feature delivered was unique to the space. In 4 months we've seen PoS Lite (staking), the simply stunning HTML5 wallet, stealth addresses, mobile PoS Lite wallets which stake (iOs and Droid), encrypted chat, and now ShadowSend v2. That an impressive list.

Wider adoption beyond the people who lurk these boards comes with usability and function. With a decentralised marketplace coming soon built into the beautiful UI, along with cutting edge anonymity technology this is now a product with a very real function. Throw in mobile updates with the updated new UI and ShadowSend v2/decentralised marketplace and we have something incredibly special.

There are very other coins out there successfully progressing to innovate and have as impressive display of function as SDC. Make up your own minds but thats my 2c (or 2 Shadowshis)

Lets not even think about the i2p screenshot teaser until we get an official announcement but that is another thing to look forward to it seems Wink

EDIT: Actually lets think about it Grin

here it is

dadon

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1002

Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.

Quote from: smooth on December 26, 2014, 09:09:26 PM

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 08:36:42 PM

SDC is only a few months old mate this is not the final product it will be improved and right now it's as good if not better then anything else out there, that being said please stop talking about monero this is the SDC thread and everyone of your posts mentions it

I mention it only in response to others who do so, particularly when the statements are incorrect. Example:

Quote from: Fujireloaded on December 26, 2014, 03:49:59 PM

with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Quote

then xmr

Now you are doing it. Why?

I never mentioned it once here until you started talking about it the other day anyways just seams like subtle advertisement to me, carry on, not looking for a back and forth.

Longenecker

full member

Activity: 226

Merit: 100

Smooth... resist temptation...

*edit, damn... I was too late.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: dadon on December 26, 2014, 08:36:42 PM

SDC is only a few months old mate this is not the final product it will be improved and right now it's as good if not better then anything else out there, that being said please stop talking about monero this is the SDC thread and everyone of your posts mentions it

I mention it only in response to others who do so, particularly when the statements are incorrect. Example:

Quote from: Fujireloaded on December 26, 2014, 03:49:59 PM

with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Quote

then xmr

Now you are doing it. Why?

dadon

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1002

Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.

SDC is only a few months old mate this is not the final product it will be improved and right now it's as good if not better then anything else out there, that being said please stop talking about monero this is the SDC thread and everyone of your posts mentions it, you made your point, there are similarity's but were not done and we have done more in 4 months then xmr have in like 6 months really they haven't done much at all apart from change there name it's really not that impressive i bought in at the start and have been watching them all i see is promises and no delivery, here i see no promises only delivery, face it, there is almost no coin out there that has done what the SDC team did in 4 months, it's insulting comparing SDC to other coins, there just not even in the same league, xmr is bytecoin with less coins and smaller pre-mine apart from put an X in there name what have they actually done? and i mean delivered not promised or currently working on, delivered, this is why SDC is better in every way, sorry to carry on but this is the SDC thread, you should expect it.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Fujireloaded on December 26, 2014, 03:49:59 PM

Quote from: child_harold on December 26, 2014, 02:50:45 PM

Quote from: dasource on December 26, 2014, 02:35:39 PM

Guys/Gals, can we please please stop getting carried away with this shadow and cryptonote... Shadow is not based on cryptonote and does not function like cryptonote!

Thanks

Oops. Sorry.
smooth an I had a convo based on the assumption Shadow (ssv2) was based on cryptonote! He read the whitepaper and somehow was under the impression it was. How ddi this confusion begin?

Please tell us what it is if not based on cryptonote! Is it somehow an improvement?!

EDIT: Cryptonote 2.0 is cited in the references, altho I cannot see where the reference appears in the paper.

I have a question about shadow-to-shadow transactions.

0) I own 0 shadow.

1) Person A sends me 1 shadow.

2) I then myself 1 shadow. (not sure if this step is needed).

3) I send A some of the shadow back, say 0.9.

Question: Is it possible for A using some offline techniques in the (far enough) future to tell this 0.9 shadow is mine with a high probability? Probably this depends on the number of transactions of the network and number of users. So if you answer this question feel free to go into this as well.

I know for instance that, as things are right now, with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Thank you.

We don't know exactly what is possible in the far future. It is not possible in either Monero or shadow to tell which addresses own which coins using the obvious direct inspection the way you can with a bitcoin-style coin. I assume by your comment about Monero you are referring to MRL-0001 which talks about some failures that can occur (allowing blockchain analysis to extract some information) if too-small ring sizes are used (and the same applies to shadow). The possibility of routine and frequent transfers between shadow and SDC provide another potential avenue of attack. Those are not the only potential weaknesses.

The current anonymity techniques we have now are steps in the right direction. No one has fully "solved" this yet.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: dasource on December 26, 2014, 02:35:39 PM

Guys/Gals, can we please please stop getting carried away with this shadow and cryptonote... Shadow is not based on cryptonote and does not function like cryptonote!

Sorry, but you are incorrect. It is using the exact same techniques of one time ring signatures (intractability) and stealth addresses (unlinkability). The code may be brand new but the cryptography techniques and math behind the one time ring signatures are the same (which include the zero knowledge proof) and were invented by cryptonote.

I could go and rewrite the code to do this stuff yet again (in fact I have done so for my own experimental purposes) but I wouldn't claim it to be anything other than a reimplementation of cryptonote. Someone else on the Monero project did it in python, and called it mininero.

If anyone is claiming otherwise they are either confused or trying to scam you (I don't suggest the latter necessarily, just pointing out the possibilities).

Pline

full member

Activity: 448

Merit: 100

Can anyone offer insight into ring sizes when sending to and from shadow? I guess ring sizes must be chosen to be smaller now because the network is still small? Does ring size affect anonymity/privacy? Sometimes it won't allow you to send because it says not enough anonymous outputs exist.

Also I noticed when sending from Shadow back to SDC, you must always use a stealth address, is that correct?

MoonDusk

member

Activity: 89

Merit: 10

Quote from: Fujireloaded on December 26, 2014, 03:49:59 PM

I have a question about shadow-to-shadow transactions.

0) I own 0 shadow.

1) Person A sends me 1 shadow.

2) I then myself 1 shadow. (not sure if this step is needed).

3) I send A some of the shadow back, say 0.9.

Question: Is it possible for A using some offline techniques in the (far enough) future to tell this 0.9 shadow is mine with a high probability? Probably this depends on the number of transactions of the network and number of users. So if you answer this question feel free to go into this as well.

I know for instance that, as things are right now, with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Thank you.

Correct me if i'm wrong guys, this is what i've gauged from reading WP and slides of this brilliant system.

When you redeem Shadow token to SDC the Shadow is not destroyed but added to the pool of Shadow tokens. Say Bryan sends 1 SDC to Shadow and holds his Shadow in his stealth address, the 1 SDC is now destroyed. Phillip who is unrelated to Bryan decides to redeem 1 of his 100 Shadows to SDC, which would appear on the blockchain as a newly minted SDC. Clearly a Shadow-SDC transaction has happened but the token could have been redeemed by anyone holding Shadow. The 1 Shadow which Phillip used to redeem his 1 SDC stays in the network increasing the potential outputs.

Poor Bryan might be having fingers pointed at him if it wasnt for the stealth addresses/ringsig/Shadow token/SDC creation and destruction ensuring anonnymity.

MedaR

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1026

thanks Alty Cool

nice vids

Fujireloaded

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

Quote from: child_harold on December 26, 2014, 02:50:45 PM

Quote from: dasource on December 26, 2014, 02:35:39 PM

Guys/Gals, can we please please stop getting carried away with this shadow and cryptonote... Shadow is not based on cryptonote and does not function like cryptonote!

Thanks

Oops. Sorry.
smooth an I had a convo based on the assumption Shadow (ssv2) was based on cryptonote! He read the whitepaper and somehow was under the impression it was. How ddi this confusion begin?

Please tell us what it is if not based on cryptonote! Is it somehow an improvement?!

EDIT: Cryptonote 2.0 is cited in the references, altho I cannot see where the reference appears in the paper.

I have a question about shadow-to-shadow transactions.

0) I own 0 shadow.

1) Person A sends me 1 shadow.

2) I then myself 1 shadow. (not sure if this step is needed).

3) I send A some of the shadow back, say 0.9.

Question: Is it possible for A using some offline techniques in the (far enough) future to tell this 0.9 shadow is mine with a high probability? Probably this depends on the number of transactions of the network and number of users. So if you answer this question feel free to go into this as well.

I know for instance that, as things are right now, with Monero this fails, i.e. person A can tell the money comes from me with a high probability.

Thank you.

child_harold

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dasource on December 26, 2014, 02:35:39 PM

Guys/Gals, can we please please stop getting carried away with this shadow and cryptonote... Shadow is not based on cryptonote and does not function like cryptonote!

Thanks

Oops. Sorry.
smooth an I had a convo based on the assumption Shadow (ssv2) was based on cryptonote! He read the whitepaper and somehow was under the impression it was. How ddi this confusion begin?

Please tell us what it is if not based on cryptonote! Is it somehow an improvement?!

EDIT: Cryptonote 2.0 is cited in the references, altho I cannot see where the reference appears in the paper.

UPADTE: from IRC: 8:17 PM

Quote

<•dasource> child_harold: seriously buddy calling shadow CN is a huge disservice to the months of hardwork by the dev team .... There maybe similarities in say use of stealth address etc but shadow is NOT cryptonote

I has been trout slapped!

Apologies for misinformation! Can we get some more detail about the diffs please?

dasource

hero member

Activity: 821

Merit: 1000

Guys/Gals, can we please please stop getting carried away with this shadow and cryptonote... Shadow is not based on cryptonote and does not function like cryptonote!

Thanks

Longenecker

full member

Activity: 226

Merit: 100