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Topic: [SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 433. (Read 1289636 times)

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
December 26, 2014, 06:58:56 AM
Can someone explain what happens if we remove convert button and use shadow to shadow only. Isnt that alot simpler?

Perhaps. And maybe better for anonymity? However having these extra options mean we can send to a merchant that does not use a stealth address either a) with a classic SDC>SDC tx or b) a more anonymous Shadow>SDC tx

TBH Im not sure what extra anon using b) adds but Im sure somebody else will fill us in.

Certainly the anon is the priority and maybe everybody should use only Shadow addys?
sr. member
Activity: 277
Merit: 250
December 26, 2014, 06:53:37 AM
Can someone explain what happens if we remove convert button and use shadow to shadow only. Isnt that alot simpler?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
December 26, 2014, 06:50:32 AM
^FOLLOW-UP question:

1. if the user has a pool of shadow (which are invisible on the blockchain, yes?)
2. some of the pooled shadow are sent to a newly generated recipient stealth address, 
3. when/if they are converted back to SDC by the recipient stealth address they would be completely anonymous?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
December 26, 2014, 06:38:39 AM
Quote from: smooth

Consider that you take 53,17 SDC, convert it to shadow, send it to someone (for example to pay for a private purchase), and soon thereafter he converts it back to 53.17 SDC. During which time there hasn't been a whole lot of activity (certainly no other transactions in that same amount or close to it). Is this really fooling anyone?

(I have pointed out similar issues with the suggestion that Bitcoin add anonymity using a cryptonote-based sidechain.)

Thank you smooth. Most gracious of you to come in here and discuss the tech.

I'd like to focus on this part of your reply. It seems like an obvious weakness which the devs must have considered. Certainly even my non-tec brain could savvy ways to obfuscate the the coin state change. The user could determine the time/amount of conversion or this could occur ina randomised way or perhaps it never need happen at all?!

Hopefully a Team member or Ryno could address this more technical aspect of SSv2?

Thanks again smooth! Most good of you to rejoin the convo.  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
December 26, 2014, 06:22:14 AM
1. Is it true to say both SDC and XMR have built their own cryptonote systems from scratch?

As far as I can tell that is true. The SDC implementation was apparently built from scratch (I haven't personally reviewed it) and from the whitepaper is effectively cryptonote with some relatively minor tweaks.

The XMR cryptonote implementation was apparently built (presumably also from scratch) by cryptonote itself, a shadowy (no pun intended) group that has no direct participation in the cryptocurrency community as far as anyone knows. They also created something called cryptonotecoin, but only as a proof-of-concept that is designed to have no value (the blockchain resets itself after a month or something).

Quote
2. Is it true to say Shadow>Shadow transactions offer the same security as Monero? Perhaps better?

Essentially the same, if widely used, but see below. The reduced number of denominations provides a small improvement in anonymity, but also an increase in transaction size, so it isn't really clear this ends up being a net gain in anonymity (compared to say an increase in mix factor with comparable increase in size).

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3. Is it true to say providing a working GUI wallet for cryptonote transactions that SDC made great strides forward for user-adoption of a working cryptonote implementation?

I haven't seen the SDC wallet but from the screen shots in the OP it certainly looks nice. I'd give it high marks based on that alone.

Quote
1. smooth said: "If you mint and redeem frequently, you will have issues that reduce your anonymity". Is this a problem? Is so solutions? Discuss

At that point you are effectively using a traceable coin with a short trip through an untraceable coin, which makes the untraceable coin something of mixer, and that in turn only helps if there is a high level of activity, but still reduces anonymity given time-based attacks.

Consider that you take 53,17 SDC, convert it to shadow, send it to someone (for example to pay for a private purchase), and soon thereafter he converts it back to 53.17 SDC. During which time there hasn't been a whole lot of activity (certainly no other transactions in that same amount or close to it). Is this really fooling anyone?

(I have pointed out similar issues with the suggestion that Bitcoin add anonymity using a cryptonote-based sidechain.)

Quote
2. smooth mentioned advantages ("This is indeed something new, and there are some advantages to it…"). However these were not mentioned. Any suggestions?

The advantages would be easier integration with services (exchanges, etc.) that expect everything to operate just like a Bitcoin clone, not and deal with stealth addresses, mix factors, etc.

Also lower cost for the non-anon transactions, since they are smaller and less resource intensive, but the trade off is moving activity to the (lower cost) non-anonymous coin reduces activity in the anonymous coin, which in turn reduces effective anonymity.

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3. My understanding is that XMR does not use a blockchain db. Working out your db structure I bleieve is why you're still developing the gui wallet. In any case what are the implications (pros/cons) re the differing db structures

XMR stores the bloockchain in memory, which means you currently need at least 4 GB to run a node with reasonable performance, and this is growing, albeit slowly. DB development is progressing, also slowly. By contrast, SDC I understand uses the Bitcoin DB code so probably leveldb for storage? That isn't blazingly fast, but generally fast enough (especially for a coin with much less activity than BTC), and eliminates the issue of high memory requirement.

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4. Do we still need SDC>SDC? Useful for non-anon transactions? Does it compromise our anon to keep SDC>SDC an option?

That is a tradeoff you will have to make. See above.

Hope this helps.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
December 26, 2014, 06:11:57 AM
I don't doubt that fluffypony and smooth are "smart" but their statements have undoubtedly affected the price of SDC without justification IMO

LOL if you think I influence the price.

Seriously, alts are in a tough spot, 90+% of them are down a lot this year, regardless of merit. BTC too.

I thought what I said about shadowsend was largely positive (certainly compared to most of the crap out there), but (some of) you guys are just a bit too competitive and defensive to see it that way.



I am not a Team member. I speak for myself.

As one of the first established devs to weigh in (together with ur colleagure fluffypony) I believe ur comments did play a role, yes. I will re-read them.

Id be wary of casting aspersions on competitiveness. After all we have this in common, yes? A healthy competition which ultimately benefits the end user.

Good Luck.

+ merry christmas etc

OK. Apologies smooth.

I have re-read some of the thread . I agree your comments about shadowsend were largely positive. See:

What many people seem to be missing (and it is totally normal to do so because it's not been seen before) is they keep comparing it to existing solutions.

SDC has something completely new in that it destroys coins that are then converted into redeemable tokens that sit on top of the blockchain and these tokens can then be reconverted via minting into new SDC.

It's only the exchange / allocation of tokens that use the ring sig with basic NIZK to prove to the blockchain that the holder owns the value of the output without revealing identity, it's not the actual coins using ring sig.

It is indeed a very well thought out system that the cannot be followed on an explorer.

First of all, every single cryptocurrency destroys coins when they are used. That's how the work. An input can be spent once and only once, and any output (including change) is a new coin.

What SDC has is essentially two types of coins on the same blockchain. When you say "destroys the coins" what that really means is a type of transaction that has one type of coin as input and another type as output (SDC calls this "mint" I believe). The latter kind is what is virtually identical to cryptonote. The former is (as far as I know, and I will assume this, but I haven't studied it) virtually identical to bitcoin. There is also a transaction type that has cryptonote-style coins on the input side and bitcoin-style coins on the output side (SDC calls this "redeem" I think).

This is indeed something new, and there are some advantages to it, but also disadvantages. It is not correct to say that it adds anonymity though. The anonymity comes from the use of cryptonote style coins. As long as you use the cryptonote-style coins exclusively or predominantly, you have the same anonomity as Monero. If you mint and redeem frequently, you will have issues that reduce your anonymity.

I would like to invite smooth, fluffypony and anybody else to study this last para most closely and open it up for discussion.

Assertions:

1. Is it true to say both SDC and XMR have built their own cryptonote systems from scratch?
2. Is it true to say Shadow>Shadow transactions offer the same security as Monero? Perhaps better?
3. Is it true to say providing a working GUI wallet for cryptonote transactions that SDC made great strides forward for user-adoption of a working cryptonote implementation?

Questions:

1. smooth said: "If you mint and redeem frequently, you will have issues that reduce your anonymity". Is this a problem? Is so solutions? Discuss

2. smooth mentioned advantages ("This is indeed something new, and there are some advantages to it…"). However these were not mentioned. Any suggestions?

3. My understanding is that XMR does not use a blockchain db. Working out your db structure I bleieve is why you're still developing the gui wallet. In any case what are the implications (pros/cons) re the differing db structures

4. Do we still need SDC>SDC? Useful for non-anon transactions? Does it compromise our anon to keep SDC>SDC an option?

legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1002
December 26, 2014, 02:53:31 AM
Deposits and withdrawals at crypts are now fixed. We had an issue with an extremely slow daemon due to a misconfiguration which is now resolved. We apologize for the extended downtime
sr. member
Activity: 522
Merit: 266
December 26, 2014, 12:56:31 AM

Rynomster is the leader in Proof of Honor nomination 2014 by coinssource

Take part in the vote: http://www.coinssource.com/vote/

Voting will last until 12/28/2014
Winner Announcement: 1/10/2015



Vote for Shadowcash in Untraceable crypto currency nomination Poll in BCT thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/untraceable-cryptocurrency-poll-898563


all sdc votes are fake, we all should call it, "Proof of Shame".

We should all call you "Proof of Pussy" for making a noob account just to post here. Use your real account next time.
Anybody who spends Christmas trolling is really sad lets just give thanks that we have lives and family who love us unlike these sad people sniff sniff i just wish i could hug them all better.

Amen to that. Pathetic. I bet no sex either.....
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1002
Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.
December 26, 2014, 12:38:39 AM

Rynomster is the leader in Proof of Honor nomination 2014 by coinssource

Take part in the vote: http://www.coinssource.com/vote/

Voting will last until 12/28/2014
Winner Announcement: 1/10/2015



Vote for Shadowcash in Untraceable crypto currency nomination Poll in BCT thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/untraceable-cryptocurrency-poll-898563


all sdc votes are fake, we all should call it, "Proof of Shame".

We should all call you "Proof of Pussy" for making a noob account just to post here. Use your real account next time.
Anybody who spends Christmas trolling is really sad lets just give thanks that we have lives and family who love us unlike these sad people sniff sniff i just wish i could hug them all better.
full member
Activity: 226
Merit: 100
December 25, 2014, 08:18:38 PM

Rynomster is the leader in Proof of Honor nomination 2014 by coinssource

Take part in the vote: http://www.coinssource.com/vote/

Voting will last until 12/28/2014
Winner Announcement: 1/10/2015



Vote for Shadowcash in Untraceable crypto currency nomination Poll in BCT thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/untraceable-cryptocurrency-poll-898563

If Rynomster wins this it's going to bring alot of attention to SDC alot of people have voted.

+1 keep the votes coming people!
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1002
Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.
December 25, 2014, 08:00:45 PM

Rynomster is the leader in Proof of Honor nomination 2014 by coinssource

Take part in the vote: http://www.coinssource.com/vote/

Voting will last until 12/28/2014
Winner Announcement: 1/10/2015



Vote for Shadowcash in Untraceable crypto currency nomination Poll in BCT thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/untraceable-cryptocurrency-poll-898563

If Rynomster wins this it's going to bring alot of attention to SDC alot of people have voted.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
★ IT's Party Time! ★
December 25, 2014, 07:47:38 PM

Rynomster is the leader in Proof of Honor nomination 2014 by coinssource

Take part in the vote: http://www.coinssource.com/vote/

Voting will last until 12/28/2014
Winner Announcement: 1/10/2015



Vote for Shadowcash in Untraceable crypto currency nomination Poll in BCT thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/untraceable-cryptocurrency-poll-898563
full member
Activity: 448
Merit: 100
December 25, 2014, 07:18:36 PM
Anyone know what the average amount of orphaned blocks should be when staking?  It seems I have been getting a lot of blocks generated/mined, but they aren't accepted.
sr. member
Activity: 286
Merit: 250
December 25, 2014, 05:42:06 PM
Lets calm down guys. Atmosphere is icy here!

Stop feeding the retards coming here by quoting or answering them. Someone will just black list them if they keep going.

Some trolls are worth saving.  Wink

Merry Xmas

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
December 25, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
Lets calm down guys. Atmosphere is icy here!

Stop feeding the retards coming here by quoting or answering them. Someone will just black list them if they keep going.
sr. member
Activity: 286
Merit: 250
December 25, 2014, 05:34:13 PM
haha I don't want your SDC
Thanx

Lol - who asked you?
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1012
vertex output parameter not completely initialized
December 25, 2014, 05:33:37 PM
haha I don't want your SDC
Thanx
sr. member
Activity: 286
Merit: 250
December 25, 2014, 05:32:15 PM
I like this habit some people have of signing their names after they write something, like their username isn't already visible.  Cheesy

SebSebastian

How many shadow do you own Seb?

The Jackal Wink


You want me to pee in a cup too afterwards?

SebSebastian.    Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 286
Merit: 250
December 25, 2014, 05:27:35 PM
I like this habit some people have of signing their names after they write something, like their username isn't already visible.  Cheesy

SebSebastian
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
★ IT's Party Time! ★
December 25, 2014, 05:25:42 PM
Can you tell what coin I'm from?

I'm from the one attacked by the army of troll whales from shadow.

LOL

The Jackal   Grin

Nice try to crap here Grin

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