Topic: Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers - page 16. (Read 7364 times)

Since we're throwing around ideas:

Based on the laser CNC idea from the Italian board, as seen below, how about using an actual (cheap, DIY type) CNC router?

From what I can tell, you can get DIY CNC routers for $200-$300; compared to laser etching, you can't hurt your eyesight, the cut would be deeper and it should be much quicker (though a bit messier).
What's nice about these simple machines is that in general (from my experience with 3D printers), they don't save the code persistently. When they're turned off, they essentially 'forget everything' and often print / cut from a microSD card directly, which you can wipe after you are done. It can also be generated offline with the supplied software or something more elaborate on a dedicated laptop. Most people who do 3D printing and milling have a dedicated machine in the shop just for the purpose of generating toolpaths anyway.

As many of you suggested, using those machines require putting your seed into those.
I would never trust any of those machine, even if they claim they don’t track what has been stamped.
So, either we buy one of those for personal use, and then we are ready to destroy it after the first use, or the washer method is superior in security terms.

Yeah also recently came to know about the news from him and was happy to see that they are adopting BIP-39 entropy for the recovery seed phrase.Along with it you can download the recovery file and you have to upload it if you want to change the password for your mail.This seed needs to be properly backed up and don't leave it at unsafe places.

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Coming back to the orginal topic for seed phrases then we see above the SIC marking Doot peen marking machine beast that could help you to mark up on metals with clarity also but didn't know the prices for the same.

So there was one article which I found interesting about these marking machines depending on the metal type we are using and explain in good depth how the engraving works and which technology is best for the particular metal and if you "washer guys" are interested in it you can read it here : Right marking machine

There was a thread about it here: Proton-mail is using BIP39 for its recovery phrase!

As noted in that thread, this account recovery phrase follows the exact same specification as BIP39. You can see the code here: https://github.com/ProtonMail/bip39

It should go without saying that you should not use the same seed phrase for both ProtonMail recovery and for storing bitcoins, for obvious reasons.

Very interesting thanks.
It’s the first time I see a seed outside the bitcoin protocol.
But yeah, for sure you can use the same technique!

I just learned from o_e_l_e_o that the privacy-focused email provider proton.me, which some of you may be using, now offers to create 12-word recovery phrases for your email account.
This will be another useful application for this seed phrase backup technique. After all, these washer backups are dirt cheap after initial investment for the equipment.
Just wanted to let all the 'washer guys' (? ) here know about it in case they're interested..

I don’t like it.
Or you go full badass overkill mode with the E Mark 18v or you go the smart way with washers, sledgehammer, and anvil.
There is no way in the middle!

/j

This is interesting, but it would require at least a metallic normograph for clear lettering.
At this point I would choose the laser engraving frame proposed on the Italian thread.

On a side note I had to check what is this price everyone is talking about:
Roughly 0.25 BTC (one week worth of sig campaign in the good ol’time).

I'm not talking about renting it to make seed phrase backups, that's still "electronic device" and even if you delete the seed file, for sure there will be a way to recover it.
There are many small manufacturers which could use your service. Of course, all depends from where you are located. In a rural farmlands you won't have that much marking there to do for sure
As I said in my first post, buying this machine only for making seed backups is an overkill.

For a fraction of the price of the e-mark you could get this >


It will do the same job, not that nice and not that fast but way cheaper

Who's going to rent a device to "print" their seed phrase? That seems risky!

Wow, I never thought that this machine would draw so much  interest.
Regarding the price, I'll quote my previous commet.


The Initial investment is serious but you can make a ton of money providing marking service or renting it out.
I promise I'll do a nice review when I get the time.

TheBeardedBaby first intrigued the machine, and then forces us all to wait! How cruel it is. We are already waiting for a detailed review and an approximate price.

Since this machine is industrial or for professional work, the price should be significant, as many of you assume. Undoubtedly, the result of this machine is amazing, but buying one will be unnecessarily expensive for the sake of a few seed-phrases and until you play enough with applying text to everything that comes to hand in your home.

I hope some startup will figure it out before others and create a simpler analogue for a reasonable price for bitcoiners. Such a machine can be a success. At what price would you be willing to buy this?

In addition to a machine review, it would be nice to do tests for the strength of the text, because the marking depth is only 0.3 mm. Whether the text will be vulnerable to scratches and other mechanical impacts that prevent further readability.


Copied info from the manufacturer's website https://www.sic-marking.com/e-mark-cordless-marking-system (so that the characteristics are in this topic):

Mechanic features
Dimensions: 288 x 271 x 135 mm (11.34" x 10.67" x 5.3")
Marking Types: Alphanumeric, Variable (serial or text), Datamatrix Code, and Logo
Marking Window: 60 x 25 mm (2.36" x 0.98")
Weight: 3.2 kg (7 lbs.)

Electronic features
Memory: 100 MB
LCD color screen: 320 x 240 Pixel
Keyboard: integrated Overlay Membrane
Power: 100 Watt
18V Li-ion 18V Battery: 4 Hours Marking Autonomy (normal use)

Steering software
Marking Types: Alphanumeric, Variable (serial or text), Datamatrix Code, and Logo
Transfer of Marking Files: Via USB Key
Fonts: 4x6, Arial, Courier, OCR, OCR-A, OCR_BOLD, Comic, and Comic_B
File Editing and Creation: Complete Set-Up of All Parameters
Impact Force: 1 to 9
Marking Depth: 0.3 mm (may vary depending on the material being marked)
Resolution Between Dots: 0.05 mm
Password: 1 level

Was also interested in knowing the price and searched for it on their site but didn't find out the pricing manual and on other sites also they show that we need to ask for quotation after filling a form with our details

Industry Plaza e-mark machine

So it seems we have to ask for quotation or the man here can tell us the exact price for it.

This machine is really cool like the lithium ion 18V battery with capacity to mark on the metals like steel upto 62HRC and you can plug in USB cables also for file transfer and then choose the options from screen on the beast and have watched this video from SIC official YouTube channel

SIC e- mark machine This is cool and was out of our sight for so many years and thanks @TheBeardedBaby for bringing this up and would like to see more detailed review about it's usage from you once you are back.

On the Italian thread, someone suggested a less hardcore capital intensive alternative: a laser engraving frame.


I like this badass toy more.. I can’t wait to have some test by you @TheBeardedBaby.

I would gladly make a review when I'm back from vacation.
Just some quick info.
In general, it's a great dot peen type for marking any metal surfaces, stainless steel, iron, no problem.
It comes with a software and you can design the labels on the computer, then transfer the files via USB stick or another clever option is to create a barcode for the label, print it out on paper and there's a wireless barcode scanner (I think it's an option, depending on the package) when connected to the machine and when you scan the code, you can directly load the label from that barcode.
You can adjust the hardness of punching, you can also crate and punch logos.
Of course, the price (of a new one) is almost as the price of a 10 years old VW up! but it's a hell of a machine. If you are lucky to put your hands on one of those you won't regret.

Does not support QR codes, at least not by default, you can upload a QR code in form of picture.
Can use datamatrix code and it comes in a nice suitcase with spare battery and spare needle.
I think it's about 3 kg, quite heavy but there's conformable handle to hold it, and you can make a small stand for if you planning to punch series of plates.

That's for now, I'll take some pics when I'm back
 

I am very interested in your review of this machine.

I have only the doubt about the costs, and the fact that, being quite a specific industrial machine, someone could be suspectful of the usage if shipped to a private customer.

Wow, that looks great!

Good job TheBeardedBaby; this looks like a cool alternative to basically all other methods which require to stamp every letter individually by hand. It's a little bit exhausting. Typing the seed on the device itself is great for security, as it's basically 'air-gapped', right. May I ask how much such a machine costs? It doesn't look very cheap, but I love the end result.

I think it is one of those beast:
 


https://www.sic-marking.com/e-mark-cordless-marking-system

Can you explain more about the equipment that you used and is this an offline process or how do you create the files that the machine can read? Also is it easily possible to scan such an QR Code with a Smartphone?

I love the idea to save your seed phrase on a washers or metal in general.

In this case I think I went a bit too far with it.



I can post the results later if anyone is interested

Made a test piece here... made it less visible on purpose.

@o_e_l_e_o is correct. The whole point of the guide is to have the washers stamped without anyone having the clue of what you are doing with this very common hardware.

Giving your seeds to someone to print it is the most basic error you could do in seeds management.
I can’t believe you have done such a stupid thing.