I'm not talking about permission from Bitcoinica/Intersango, I'm talking about a legal warrant that allows him to do what would otherwise be considered a criminal act. On what legal authority is he operating?
BB.
Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack - page 26. (Read 136180 times)
I note that in his most recent response (which actually tells us nothing new), Patrick has again neglected to tell us if he has obtained a warrant for his actions and what he is permitted to do. As you should all be able to tell, this is a pretty important area of ambiguity that needs clarification. Please answer the question Patrick.
Patrick acted upon the request of Bitcoinica's creditors. Since Bitcoinica, to our best knowledge, did not file a police report, nor seems to care whether the funds are returned to the creditors or not, it might be possible to argue that the creditors are the legitimate owners. It's unlikely that there's going to be an issue regarding him receiving or holding the funds in trust.
I politely disagree.The National Stolen Property Act makes illegal any of the following acts:
Transportation
Transmittal
Transfer
Receipt
Possession
Concealment
Storage
Barter
Sale, or
Disposal
of any goods, wares, merchandise, securities, money or articles used in counterfeiting valued at $5,000 or more. The courts have held that the goods need not be stolen in the U.S. nor be owned by a U.S. citizen to be subject to the Act.
I note that in his most recent response (which actually tells us nothing new), Patrick has again neglected to tell us if he has obtained a warrant for his actions and what he is permitted to do. As you should all be able to tell, this is a pretty important area of ambiguity that needs clarification. Please answer the question Patrick.
BB.
Kiba, Patrick has been our Director of Legal Affairs and is extremely well versed in Bitcoin.
I can tell you that top community members and security expects helped Patrick secure these funds.
I can tell you that top community members and security expects helped Patrick secure these funds.
+1 they did some good due diligence and they're likely safe and sound.
All,
I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.
So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.
There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.
Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.
So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.
There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.
Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
How much do you understand about bitcoin? Are you briefed on how to store it properly? I hope you don't forget the password or something
No offense to you, but if Tihan managed to screw it up by storing bitcoin in a hot wallet, then I am going to be skeptical of anybody who's holding money.
Kiba, Patrick has been our Director of Legal Affairs and is extremely well versed in Bitcoin.
I can tell you that top community members and security expects helped Patrick secure these funds.
All,
I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.
So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.
There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.
Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.
So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.
There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.
Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
How much do you understand about bitcoin? Are you briefed on how to store it properly? I hope you don't forget the password or something
No offense to you, but if Tihan managed to screw it up by storing bitcoin in a hot wallet, then I am going to be skeptical of anybody who's holding money.
I can't discuss any details for obvious, security reasons. But I do understand your concern.
All,
I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.
So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.
There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.
Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.
So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.
There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.
Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
How much do you understand about bitcoin? Are you briefed on how to store it properly? I hope you don't forget the password or something
No offense to you, but if Tihan managed to screw it up by storing bitcoin in a hot wallet, then I am going to be skeptical of anybody who's holding money.
As promised here are details of the transaction: http://blockchain.info/address/1LH6Q1ZXvdQepz8hfQd7kx6XHrggz1VkzD.
The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage.
Patrick
Patrick
This type of
I hope this turns out to be a good thing for the investors. What percentage do you expect will be restored and how much involvement will Intersango have in the process?
All,
I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.
So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.
There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.
Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.
So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.
There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.
Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
Quote from: zhoutong
Also any official/legal correspondence can be mailed to:
po.box.zhoutong.com
PO Box 465
Carlton South VIC 3053
Australia
(Yes, please address it with "po.box.zhoutong.com" instead of my name.)
po.box.zhoutong.com
PO Box 465
Carlton South VIC 3053
Australia
(Yes, please address it with "po.box.zhoutong.com" instead of my name.)
Quote
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Our clients consist of a wide range of businesses & people including: Internet Business Owners, Offshore Corporations, Business Executives, Tourists, Backpackers, Yachties, Military Personnel, Celebrities, Debtors, MLM'ers & Affiliates, etc.
Your own Australian PO Box & Street Mail Forwarding Address (and Virtual Office Service) ... all with Complete Confidentiality.
Our "Moneyback Guarantee" provides you with complete security
and peace of mind.
Simply click Offshore PO Box & International Mail Forwarding Service for further information, and don't forget to check our TESTIMONIALS.
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Is this a legitimate service?
I would like to thank roger from memorydealer, patrick & the exchanges as well as all the others helping in the process and the honnest people trying to gather information here and there.
You guys have helped me sleep better these last few days, and I imagine the other creditors as well. Needless to say I am 100% supporting any action trying to go forward.
I have 5021 btc in claim and lets say that I have been more than disapointed by the bitcoinica management from intersango. I am not saying more because attacks are useless but you can imagine how I feel about them.
I am still unsure about Zhou so I'll left this at it...
You guys have helped me sleep better these last few days, and I imagine the other creditors as well. Needless to say I am 100% supporting any action trying to go forward.
I have 5021 btc in claim and lets say that I have been more than disapointed by the bitcoinica management from intersango. I am not saying more because attacks are useless but you can imagine how I feel about them.
I am still unsure about Zhou so I'll left this at it...
The worst case scenario would be if they start making proportional payments to the largest depositors based on assets they believe they currently hold only to discover they no longer hold those assets. For example, imagine if they calculated they could make 85% payouts prior to this last theft and started making those payouts. Then they discover the theft and no longer have enough funds to make 85% payouts. Then what?
On the flip side, the longer they hold the money, the less chance there will be any left to distributed.
On the flip side, the longer they hold the money, the less chance there will be any left to distributed.
The claims process needs to get done much faster
-Charlie
I don't disagree with you regarding this but I don't think the claims processing can be legitimately restarted until all of the promised funds have been returned by Chen.
Your right, but I have no involvement with that. Has anyone gone after this guy?
Zhou or Chen...someone's gotta pay up
A update needs to be done ASAP, last update was 2012-06-17, in legal terms this is negligence.
Can somebody give me a TL;DR situation on this whole Patrick thing?
The claims process needs to get done much faster
-Charlie
I don't disagree with you regarding this but I don't think the claims processing can be legitimately restarted until all of the promised funds have been returned by Chen. If Bitcoinica starts paying people pro-rata today based on what's been promised and then those funds are not recovered, they will not be in a position to treat all creditors equally and that will create yet another legal shitstorm.
They could pay a percentage based on funds on hand right now and then make further payments as additional funds become available, but it's not an efficient way to handle the process and every extra step introduces more possibility of additional fuck ups.
I would feel differently if those who want Bitcoinica to restart the payment process before all of the promised funds have been delivered by Chen were undertaking to pay any short-fall themselves in the event that Chen returns only part of what's been promised.
It's unlikely that there's going to be an issue regarding him receiving or holding the funds in trust. Where an issue potentially arises is the transferring of the funds to someone else and I'm sure that Patrick's going to do everything possible to protect himself from any potential liability in that respect.
As an interesting side note, if a NZ entity becomes insolvent and a creditor helps secure assets or uncover hidden ones, the creditor's costs associated with securing those assets become a preferential debt.
As an interesting side note, if a NZ entity becomes insolvent and a creditor helps secure assets or uncover hidden ones, the creditor's costs associated with securing those assets become a preferential debt.
Patrick is probably getting paid for "helping" us, and each time he comes to the forum to answer questions, he bills for his time. He'll take his fees out of the balance the users get.
It's a trivial matter to ask those who've retained him in this matter whether they intend to absorb the cost of his fees relating to this issue.
Patrick Murck will not be taking fee's from the balance of the funds recovered. His fee's are paid for.
He will be making a statement soon, but the funds are safe. He has a good team of lawyers in the gamification and virtual currency space and knows the legalities well.
The claims process needs to get done much faster
-Charlie
Especially the part,
Quote
he found that for about $130 and a small amount of online paperwork, he could set up a shell company in New Zealand without stepping foot in the country or having any financial presence.
You should listen to the latest NPR planet money podcast:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/07/27/157499893/episode-390-we-set-up-an-offshore-company-in-a-tax-haven
Especially the part,
Quote
he found that for about $130 and a small amount of online paperwork, he could set up a shell company in New Zealand without stepping foot in the country or having any financial presence.
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