Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack - page 8. (Read 136139 times)

Zhou Tong is directly linked to the recent hack.  This is not debatable - he says that he was a victim of identity theft, through which Chen stole lots of cash.

So it is fairly normal for people to question his version of events is it not? People have lost a lot of money after all.


Yes people should not make unfounded accusations.



We cannot take one person's version of events, (either for or against ZT), at face value without sufficient evidence. It is just logical.

I don't really see the connection with Roberto, sounds like a separate issue for another thread.


Again it seems like a reasonable thing to want to know the real identity behind a business, responsible for storing peoples money. Zhou Tong is not an exception and neither should any of the people involved with BTC businesses.


Being new here I have probably missed something - can you point me to the thread about his bank accounts and such.

[Edit]
Found the ZT photos link https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.953155

Seems convincing though a photo-ID would have been nice


Wasn't that part of ZT's version of events, that he worked for a criminal relic collector? So it is apparently true. But yes this does not necessarily incriminate ZT.

Chen stole Zhou's identity. Used it for credit card fraud and steal money from Bitcoinica. Australian police would suffice, Zhou resided there during the theft.

And whatever you just wrote above directly applies to Zhou, he claimed that he got funds back from Chen by threatening with Chinese police.

As of right now Zhou is black mailing.

It would be a bad idea to release those conversations even with ZT's permission if it would negatively impact recuperating the stolen funds.

A police report from China really isn't what you think it would be. If like me, you live in a Western country and have a decent police force you might be mistaken in thinking that this would be a good way to go about things.

In China, you can 'influence' how a police officer sees things with something as simple as a carton of cigarettes. If you don't want to deal with a strong headed police officer then you can see the political head of that region and explain to them why the matter should go away. Also, when you're not present locally, it would be very hard to make a report, especially for something so complex.

It's one thing for the local police in China to deal with a local theft of physical goods but it's quite another for them to deal with a crypto-currency with multiple international jurisdictions.

My personal opinion is that going to the police before funds are recovered for those with a financial interest in this case would be detrimental. It would also hinder ZT from recovering the funds from his business associate.

Also, if anyone were to file a claim, shouldn't it be Bitcoinica? Am I right in saying that this attack happened after the sale?

Until he produces a police report against Chen, Chen is a figure of his fantasy. An imaginary friend.

As I said, I reserve my judgement : If he is proven guilty then I would probably be very angry toward him and expect a lot more.

Right now, everything is confused, at least he is very active and show willingness to help, so so far I cant really blame him.

Totally agree that this kind of evidence could back up his story a lot, and yes it would be silly for him to post things that could influence the recuperation of funds.

I imagine though that for a lot of people the more important question is `who is the real person behind the online identity "zhou tong"?`

I also agree that the best way to settle this question is to talk to Zhou directly, and this could be done simply and efficiently via a skype video chat.

Or is this not a reasonable proposal?

Private conversations with Zhou Tong that make sense and match exactly what he said on the forum (without being snide, why is it that no one is talking to Zhou? Why are they just repeating the same mindless snot in this thread? Ask him yourself.). I'll ask him if it's okay if I post it here, but it might make sense for him to get the money back from the thief before producing evidence that the theft happened in order not to disrupt the process.

I may be missing something, but where is the evidence of identity theft? Do you have other sources apart from a post made by the `Zhou Tong` ?

True. And in the same vein, we cannot assume he was drunk anymore than we can assume he is guilty and an evil Chinese hacker. The only "evidence" we have is that of identity theft, which was explained and can be verified with Zhou directly if anyone cared to find out. Anything else has nothing to do with this case and AurumXChange's silence should make that clear.

This thread does not decide who is guilty or innocent. This thread merely discusses possibilities. The fact that there are so many people here with their minds "made up" and "ready to take action" should remind the rest of us what bitcoiners look like to the rest of the world-- like wackos.

Reasoning for this line of thought:

Users have claimed Zhou Tong is guilty of stealing Bitcoinica funds without any proof of it whatsoever.

Users have claimed that Zhou Tong is guilty of money laundering without understanding Chinese culture.

Users have claimed that Zhou Tong is lying because he has not backed up his response with evidence, yet neglect to have the same line of reasoning with the suspiciously quiet AurumXChange's Roberto.

Users have claimed that Zhou Tong is not really Zhou Tong and someone else entirely-- this is quite bizarre considering he has numerous bank accounts with his name on them, businesses registered in his name, and has never once done anything to make anyone think otherwise.

Users have claimed that Zhou Tong works with criminals -- Yahoo's last CEO Scott Thompson lied about his tech degree, that must mean Yahoo are all liars and work with liars.   Kevin Mitnick is a known hacker who has broken numerous laws, numerous big companies ask for his advice in protecting against fraud. This does not make those companies criminals.

To me this line of reasoning is invalid.

We have not yet ascertained who is really behind the `Zhou Tong` online identity, so therefore we cannot make any assumptions about his/her/their intellect/motivation/personality/ability to make mistakes, etc

Hadn't realised there was a picture of him available.

It would be enough for most people but I doubt it would be sufficient for the hardcore.

If he's already known then a Skype call would help things for a lot of people.

It's unlikely he will if he's finally gotten some legal representation.

Well yes it would provide strong evidence for the fact that Zhou Tong is this 17 year old kid:



This is supposedly the real Zhou Tong, so by performing a video interview, one would hope to ascertain if he is legit or not. A paid actor would have difficulty answering questions about bitcoinica etc

One could also verify the voice of this kid as belonging to Zhou Tong - there was a VoIP discussion recorded a while back for the bitcoin tv show thing.

The mistakes were amateur and although ZT is a smart guy, I'd say that's weak evidence of his innocence though.



If only ZT had done the same. Instead he was transparent and vocal.

Too much foolish mistakes have been made in this theft, so either ZT was drunk when doing it, or he is innocent.

Intersango made a wise choice by going silent. Once there is no response for a long enough time, the lynch mob moves on to some other target.

Seems to me that a lot of people believe they've already been able to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt...


The only reason I'd have any suspicions of who he says he is would be if I believed he'd intended to steal everything when he started building his exchange. It seems to me that it'd be counter productive to claim you're a 17yr old when trying to build a business that requires credibility.


I think it's a little more nuanced than that now.

1) If you already don't believe he's who he claims to be, it would be just as easy to dismiss the person on the Skype call as an actor (paid or otherwise).
2) A video call won't actually prove his age, only an approximate one and if the stereotype that Asians look young is to be believed, he might be 30 but look 22.
3) He could be putting his/his family's physical security at risk
4) Some people will only believe it if they have the skype call themselves and even then, see 1) and 2).


Not difficult to do at all but would it prove anything to the hardcore?

When something is being investigated legally, they can't comment on the situation. Even if they weren't investigating legally, it would be really unprofessional and irresponsible to share that information in a public forum.

I'm not entirely sure but from what I understand, it was ZT that made the situation public that AX had withheld his funds however one thing that puzzles me is it seems that AX released additional information regarding the account without ZT's permission. In the UK that would be against the law but I'm not sure what jurisdiction AX is in so I can't really comment on that.


I'm not sure they did - do you have a link/source?


They'll only be allowed to share a very limited amount of information which won't be sufficient to expel/confirm doubts.

Only once the investigation has finished will they make any comment and even then they might only be able to say the funds have been released but nothing more.

It goes without saying that he is innocent until proven guilty, but I think we can all agree that there are some serious questions about Zhou Tong and whether he is who he says he is.

We should let the investigation continue and refrain from posting strong worded opinions, on either side of the argument, that are clearly not backed up by evidence. It would be better for everyone to follow along a more scientific approach and leave your emotionally based `beliefs` at home.

Zhou Tong could help to clear this matter up by simply doing a video skype call with a respected member of the community.

Is that really such a difficult thing to do?

Absolutely but at the same time you also have to accept you did business with a minor. This in no way absolves him in any way of his responsibilities but at the same time, some consideration must be given to his youth and inexperience.


I agree that everything here is purely verbal but there have been a lot of cruel things said too. It's more of a witch hunt than anything else. Imagine being 17 and having to deal with people threatening you? There's a real chance that someone who's lost a lot of money could do violence towards him if they found out where he lived, simply because others believe he's guilty.


Voicing their opinion is not what everyone here is doing.

If I'd lost $45K I'd be raging - it's a huge amount of money to most people. I'd do everything I could to get that money back but without real evidence of someone's guilt, I wouldn't accept going after the next best thing (which in this case is someone with circumstantial evidence).


I really feel for you. I really do. I've lost a similar amount of money in the past (still paying for it now) and I know who the culprit that took the money, I'm just not in a strong legal position to recover it.

Without an official statement from the people responsible for this disaster, it seems to me that ZT is doing more to resolve this situation than others. This doesn't mean he's innocent. It just leaves a lot of explaining from the responsible parties (seems like they're on holiday?!!!)


Right - and you've got a huuge stake in this issue. May I ask you why you think he's innocent because from where I'm sitting it sure does seem like he's more guilty than he is innocent?


I agree. Why is everyone's efforts aimed at ZT? Is it because he was silly enough to try and help everyone? Shouldn't more be asked of Intersango? Shouldn't they at least release a statement saying what's happening?

If I were ZT and saw the disproportionate level of attacks against him/Intersango then I'd be wondering "Well stuff-it, I'm innocent - let them spend years trying to sort it out for themselves".

ZT: Don't give up. Remember you're helping the people who have been hurt most in this drama as well as clearing yourself. Sure, it's a lonely and scary time for you but your responsibility is to clear this mess up and move on.


*As ever, this post assumes that ZT is innocent until proven guilty.*

AurumXchange keeps on asking zhoutong to give his address to send legal papers.
For to get AML level 2 status, zhoutong already sent his address.
Why AurumXchange not sending legal papers to that address?
They think its a fake address?
If fake then they can show the scanned copy of papers that the legal papers returned back to AurumXchange coz of no address exist or wrong address.
Why they not sending or if they sent, why they not showing proof of sending?
If some one called some one thief publicly, then legally they have to prove what, how, when, why he called thief.
If they didn't told anything to this forum, then we dont have to worry.

They accused zhoutong as thief, fraud...in AN OPEN PUBLIC FORUM & so far, more than 10+ days i think, not showing zhoutong as LEGALLY guilty in that same open public forum.
Why they are passing time instead of showing the same forum publicly their legal status & what they have done so far legally?
What AurumXchange hiding or saving?

Some people in here are already in such a bloodrage, that even if ZT turns out as a innocent child, they would still hang him, just to satisfy their bloodthirst.