Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1922.

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: jmaccoin on July 24, 2013, 09:51:45 AM

The talk of closed btc loops is crazy. It shouldn't matter at all if you buy something with btc if the recipient cashes out immediately or not. If there is enough demand for bitcoins it won't hurt the price, if it drops the price then it means the price was too high.

The Canadian dollar is a strong world currency, sometimes at par with usd, sometimes above, sometimes below. Could you imagine if we had to keep Canadian dollars to keep the value high? We wouldn't have any electronics whatsoever. We wouldn't really have anything.

If trading our Canadian dollars for usd in order to buy pretty much anything caused the price of cad to plummet, we wouldn't have a cad dollar anymore.

We can trade back and forth between cad and other currencies because cad is known as a strong, stable currency and therefore there is always people ready to buy when there are people selling.

The closed loop idea is crazy, look at Argentina.

The closed loop means more people are able to buy everything they need in Bitcoin. If we want bitcoin to work as a currency then we want people to be able to spend it directly, rather then selling it and then using currency.

Also, the price of a national currency like CAD is controlled by the central bank. If the price of CAD starts to go down because people are spending it in the US then the central bank can do things like raise interest rates, and destroy excess currency decreasing the money supply and increasing the price. On the other hand, if the price starts to go up to quickly, the central bank can print more. Central banks print and destroy money in order to keep the price stable.

Bitcoin doesn't have a central bank, it has a fixed supply. So holding it makes the price go up, while spending it rapidly makes the price go down, like with gold.

genykm

newbie

Activity: 35

Merit: 0

Ehh.. There only $0.031/kwh in Ukraine, but very possible problems with customs. Embarrassed

idee2013

sr. member

Activity: 407

Merit: 250

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:47:52 AM

Quote from: glungnahund on July 24, 2013, 08:10:28 AM

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:07:27 AM

Okay, since I have enough of this no ROI crap, here is a little hint:

even at 700.000.000 difficulty you have an ROI. Granted, if you buy an asic at that point it takes 1 year and a half, but ROI is still possible.

If the cost of electricity(*) exceeds the value of the mined BTCs you´ll never have ROI.

(*) There is no such thing as free lunch/electricity

smartass. the calculation was made with 0,31 usd/kwh. That is German standard and most countries will be lower than that.

And, just for the fun of it: with 0,15 usd/kwh which would be an US standard you get your ROI after 1 year.

hi, i pay in germany 0,29 €/kwh thats 0,385 $/kwh and this is one of the cheaper contracts in this region.

jmaccoin

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

The talk of closed btc loops is crazy. It shouldn't matter at all if you buy something with btc if the recipient cashes out immediately or not. If there is enough demand for bitcoins it won't hurt the price, if it drops the price then it means the price was too high.

The Canadian dollar is a strong world currency, sometimes at par with usd, sometimes above, sometimes below. Could you imagine if we had to keep Canadian dollars to keep the value high? We wouldn't have any electronics whatsoever. We wouldn't really have anything.

If trading our Canadian dollars for usd in order to buy pretty much anything caused the price of cad to plummet, we wouldn't have a cad dollar anymore.

We can trade back and forth between cad and other currencies because cad is known as a strong, stable currency and therefore there is always people ready to buy when there are people selling.

The closed loop idea is crazy, look at Argentina.

WastedLTC

hero member

Activity: 778

Merit: 563

Back in the day, KNC talked about having a few options around making sure their customers would receive an ROI from the devices. They didn't provide any detail but they did state that this was very important to them since they want people to come back and purchase more units.

KNC is aware of the current difficulty and they also know how many chips will be shipped. They will know what the difficulty will be after they ship (something none of us will know since we do not know the total TH produced). They stated that they will stop shipping at the end of 2013 to allow customers to receive an ROI.

If KNC wants us to take our return and purchase more hardware, they may have a plan. We are not in Aug. We still got many weeks ahead of us. KNC already upped the GH/s spec once without a price increase. They released hosting information which seems expensive but remember their goal. The goal is to meet the deadline of september and provide units which return an ROI so they will have consumers returning. This is where KNC will make their larger profits.

Good luck everyone! Will be interesting!

robix

sr. member

Activity: 360

Merit: 250

Quote from: Nemo1024 on July 24, 2013, 09:13:49 AM

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:47:52 AM

smartass. the calculation was made with 0,31 usd/kwh. That is German standard and most countries will be lower than that.

And, just for the fun of it: with 0,15 usd/kwh which would be an US standard you get your ROI after 1 year.

Current price in Norway is $0.064 and Iceland is even lower: $0.0187 Grin

So you have free elctricity Grin

Nemo1024

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1014

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:47:52 AM

smartass. the calculation was made with 0,31 usd/kwh. That is German standard and most countries will be lower than that.

And, just for the fun of it: with 0,15 usd/kwh which would be an US standard you get your ROI after 1 year.

Current price in Norway is $0.064 and Iceland is even lower: $0.0187 Grin

glungnahund

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:47:52 AM

Quote from: glungnahund on July 24, 2013, 08:10:28 AM

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:07:27 AM

Okay, since I have enough of this no ROI crap, here is a little hint:

even at 700.000.000 difficulty you have an ROI. Granted, if you buy an asic at that point it takes 1 year and a half, but ROI is still possible.

If the cost of electricity(*) exceeds the value of the mined BTCs you´ll never have ROI.

(*) There is no such thing as free lunch/electricity

smartass. the calculation was made with 0,31 usd/kwh. That is German standard and most countries will be lower than that.

And, just for the fun of it: with 0,15 usd/kwh which would be an US standard you get your ROI after 1 year.

The difficulty rises constantly while mining ... after X days mining won´t be profitable anymore. If X < 1 1/2 years you dont have ROI.

Let´s get back to the topic.

Mota

legendary

Activity: 804

Merit: 1002

Quote from: glungnahund on July 24, 2013, 08:10:28 AM

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:07:27 AM

Okay, since I have enough of this no ROI crap, here is a little hint:

even at 700.000.000 difficulty you have an ROI. Granted, if you buy an asic at that point it takes 1 year and a half, but ROI is still possible.

If the cost of electricity(*) exceeds the value of the mined BTCs you´ll never have ROI.

(*) There is no such thing as free lunch/electricity

smartass. the calculation was made with 0,31 usd/kwh. That is German standard and most countries will be lower than that.

And, just for the fun of it: with 0,15 usd/kwh which would be an US standard you get your ROI after 1 year.

Nemo1024

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1014

Quote from: glungnahund on July 24, 2013, 08:10:28 AM

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:07:27 AM

Okay, since I have enough of this no ROI crap, here is a little hint:

even at 700.000.000 difficulty you have an ROI. Granted, if you buy an asic at that point it takes 1 year and a half, but ROI is still possible.

If the cost of electricity(*) exceeds the value of the mined BTCs you´ll never have ROI.

(*) There is no such thing as free lunch/electricity

Oh yes, there is. At least during winter, when it's -10C to -25C outside and you are heating with electricity anyway.

glungnahund

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Mota on July 24, 2013, 08:07:27 AM

Okay, since I have enough of this no ROI crap, here is a little hint:

even at 700.000.000 difficulty you have an ROI. Granted, if you buy an asic at that point it takes 1 year and a half, but ROI is still possible.

If the cost of electricity(*) exceeds the value of the mined BTCs you´ll never have ROI.

(*) There is no such thing as free lunch/electricity

Mota

legendary

Activity: 804

Merit: 1002

Okay, since I have enough of this no ROI crap, here is a little hint:

even at 700.000.000 difficulty you have an ROI. Granted, if you buy an asic at that point it takes 1 year and a half, but ROI is still possible.

Mota

legendary

Activity: 804

Merit: 1002

Quote from: johnyj on July 24, 2013, 07:45:04 AM

Coin generating speed per GH is related to the time that an asic device enter the network, from BTC ROI point of view, some of the devices might never ROI if purchased use bitcoin

again, bullshit.

johnyj

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1012

Beyond Imagination

Coin generating speed per GH is related to the time that an asic device enter the network, from BTC ROI point of view, some of the devices might never ROI if purchased use bitcoin

Nemo1024

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1014

Quote from: rangedriver on July 24, 2013, 06:21:43 AM

Quote from: DPoS on July 23, 2013, 08:08:27 PM

I am still sticking with my prediction of a few months ago that there will be some real strain and dark days ahead for btc in general.. hopefully wash out all the weak hands and get rich quickers... if so I will buy up all the 'unprofitible' miners on firesale as btc goes down to sub $50

Depends how Iran / Syria plays out. If the Syrian game leads to full blown conflict that draws in Iran, particularly in light of recent rhetoric around 'strategic' US airstrikes, then Iran could conceivably hit back very hard...closing the Strait of Hormuz, thus sending oil prices and markets crazy. Would be the straw that breaks the camels back in places such as Argentina and Portugal. BTC wins.

...while the world goes up in flame. I would rather BTC stayed neutral, while the US stopped supplying unti-government terrorists in Syria with chemical weapons and pressuring (through extrenally-organised riots) the Turkish government to provide platform for Israeli airstrikes against the sovereign state of Syria.

rangedriver

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 504

Quote from: DPoS on July 23, 2013, 08:08:27 PM

I am still sticking with my prediction of a few months ago that there will be some real strain and dark days ahead for btc in general.. hopefully wash out all the weak hands and get rich quickers... if so I will buy up all the 'unprofitible' miners on firesale as btc goes down to sub $50

Depends how Iran / Syria plays out. If the Syrian game leads to full blown conflict that draws in Iran, particularly in light of recent rhetoric around 'strategic' US airstrikes, then Iran could conceivably hit back very hard...closing the Strait of Hormuz, thus sending oil prices and markets crazy. Would be the straw that breaks the camels back in places such as Argentina and Portugal. BTC wins.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: dan99 on July 24, 2013, 04:19:28 AM

They is a need to have more e-commerce websites using bitcoin as their medium of exchange. Definitely not enough has been done to promote the useability of btc..

Agreed, and for people searching solely for profit, this is where the biggest returns lie. It also require more effort than purchasing a machine from a manufacturer and switching it on. Both are currently ground floor entry, but more needs to be done promoting and encouraging expenditure in BTC...and the time is ripe now to get involved!

dan99

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

They is a need to have more e-commerce websites using bitcoin as their medium of exchange. Definitely not enough has been done to promote the useability of btc..

timmmers

sr. member

Activity: 1176

Merit: 265

Quote from: Ytterbium on July 23, 2013, 11:05:50 PM

Quote from: DPoS on July 23, 2013, 09:35:37 PM

that was a different landscape like you described in where the only big piles of btc where with those old timers who already had their ROI x1000 so they could hold. Now you have this other wave of chip makers & group buyers that took btc (not all , but plenty) that have to do a force exchange to pay fabs, etc to keep their deadlines. and then the second gothca is that many of the ASIC miners are going to need to get their ROI ASAP since they spent so much this turn.. the old prisoner's dilemma - since you have fewer people with larger piles which kill the bid in the exchanges will force each one to act before the other.

having more ways to use btc and also keeping it in its own ecosystem will counter act it. having the winkles try to dump on that ETF idea and more and more heat on SR won't help btc..

just many more weights to the downside in the next 6-8 months

Many of the ASIC makers used services that converted BTC to USD right away, they probably sold everything they needed to immediately. The rest is profit, along with may small costs to pay employees, etc. Any selling due to ASIC purchases has probably already happened.

This time round it has, but this cycle is going to repeat with each batch of new gen gear isn't it?
Maybe next time round though, more people will be paying with mined BTC from their last ASIC ?
It's an interesting thought how these cycles will change the price of BTC for a while, and how predictable they will be?
IF several large batches from decent suppliers are announced around the same time for example...can we say that their BTC converting to pay for supplies and overhead will drop the price and cause the type of dip we've seen already?

I used to read Sherlock Holmes for a mystery to solve...who needs him anymore with this to work out eh?

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: DPoS on July 23, 2013, 09:35:37 PM

that was a different landscape like you described in where the only big piles of btc where with those old timers who already had their ROI x1000 so they could hold. Now you have this other wave of chip makers & group buyers that took btc (not all , but plenty) that have to do a force exchange to pay fabs, etc to keep their deadlines. and then the second gothca is that many of the ASIC miners are going to need to get their ROI ASAP since they spent so much this turn.. the old prisoner's dilemma - since you have fewer people with larger piles which kill the bid in the exchanges will force each one to act before the other.

having more ways to use btc and also keeping it in its own ecosystem will counter act it. having the winkles try to dump on that ETF idea and more and more heat on SR won't help btc..

just many more weights to the downside in the next 6-8 months

Many of the ASIC makers used services that converted BTC to USD right away, they probably sold everything they needed to immediately. The rest is profit, along with may small costs to pay employees, etc. Any selling due to ASIC purchases has probably already happened.

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