Points taken...
Fact remains... if they hadn't had to re-submit the code, Neppies would have been ready sooner.
Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 307. (Read 3049515 times)
Everyone saying they planned to screw us ahead of time is like saying they knew about Gox in 1976 imho.
Rubbish.It was totally predictable (and predicted) that:
a) They would deliver absolutely as late as they could while being able to claim they didn't technically violate their promises
b) They would weasel out of their refund promises of 'at any point up to shipping'
Here is my prediction, from February:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4950745
You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.
Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.
Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.
I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -
Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2
Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.
My interpretation:
Batch 1 delivered 1st July.
Batch 2 delivered 3-4 weeks later, but with compensatory cloud hashing from 1st July.
Batch 3 delivered 1 month later, but with compensatory cloud hashing from 1st July.
Batch 1 customers are delivered on time.
They just say to batch 2 and 3 customers "Yes, we were late, but it didn't affect you, because we gave you free hashing to match"
From middle to end of June, your machines will be 'in production', and unable to be refunded.
Why was it obvious? Because it what they did last time.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Everyone saying they planned to screw us ahead of time is like saying they knew about Gox in 1976 imho.
BS. imho 
Many accurately predicted delivery date exactly including what appears to be a pause.
Please show your homework for this statement, as it certainly doesn't ring true for people who read this thread fully and regularly.The speculation was all over the place including late and never/impossible and late/never fraud.
Not gonna dig, declare self winner.
My impression of consensus could have easily been personal bias.
That opinion was definately voiced among them and repeated.
Based on my recollection.
And my signature is a disclaimer.
The homework is self graded no need to share BTW.
It's your money, research as little or as much as you choose.
YMMV
Makes claims.
Won't back them up.
Claims victory.
Sounds like you have all the groundwork to start your own asic manufacturing company there
Many accurately predicted delivery date exactly including what appears to be a pause.
Please show your homework for this statement, as it certainly doesn't ring true for people who read this thread fully and regularly.The speculation was all over the place including late and never/impossible and late/never fraud.
Not gonna dig, declare self winner.
My impression of consensus could have easily been personal bias.
That opinion was definately voiced among them and repeated.
Based on my recollection.
And my signature is a disclaimer.
The homework is self graded no need to share BTW.
It's your money, research as little or as much as you choose.
YMMV
Many accurately predicted delivery date exactly including what appears to be a pause.
Please show your homework for this statement, as it certainly doesn't ring true for people who read this thread fully and regularly."we have completely re-written and optimised the RTL code"
*Obviously, anyone who ordered most likely thought we would get Neppies shipping way before the last day of Q2. We had every reason to believe that late Q1 was a possibility. I don't think it was intentional, I think there was problems with the chip, which is also why we are hashing with 5 boxes per Neppie, instead of a single tidy box like Jupiter. The code re-submission wreaked havoc on the timeline and case design
Everyone saying they planned to screw us ahead of time is like saying they knew about Gox in 1976 imho.
KNC did what they could there... We wouldn't even be discussing this though if KNC had been more transparent and forthcoming on what was happening. It's too bad we live in a time when "secrecy" is held in such high regard by those doing the developing/manufacturing, but when there's tens of millions at stake I can understand development secrecy.
My biggest "Peeve" is the cloud-hashing farm. That hurts customers in every way.
"The post"....
1421 pages. I wonder what percentage of that content is OT.
on topic - KnC - I want an update on the status of the Neptunes, please.
on topic - KnC - I want an update on the status of the Neptunes, please.
Neptunes are still very much in the preliminary design phase. As much as the timeline will be reduced significantly in comparison to a standard engineering project at 20nm, if such exists, because this is absolute bleeding edge we want to be absolutely sure what we commit to silicon will ensure a successful product at the end. This initial phase will not be rushed.
That said we have completely re-written and optimised the RTL code. The Jupiter project was very much focused upon safe speed to market and the window of opportunity hashing power presented in this present finite period prior to significant competition. The Neptune project whilst adhering to aspects of the aforementioned must focus upon power consumption as it's primary trait if customers (you guys) will be able to compete successfully over a longer period. We know that we are reaching limits on standard household circuits, we want you to remain competitive w.r.t. the unfolding mining landscape and we are all to well aware that electricity costs will come into focus in the not too distant future.
So where we are now is that we have a working FPGA code and are in the process of testing that and tweaking any further refinements before it's submission.
With respect to the speculation above we sold out of Neptune's last night.
*Shortly after this post, we lost BitcoinOrama as a Rep. (last post Jan 20th) Any Guesses why?
My guess= N.D.A. Violation (Non Disclosure Agreement) resulting in termination without pay. Which would explain why we heard tales of KNC still owing 'Orama a few thousand dollars. Just a guess.
Many accurately predicted delivery date exactly including what appears to be a pause.
Please show your homework for this statement, as it certainly doesn't ring true for people who read this thread fully and regularly.Many accurately predicted delivery date exactly including what appears to be a pause.
Please show your homework for this statement, as it certainly doesn't ring true for people who read this thread fully and regularly. 
Many accurately predicted delivery date exactly including what appears to be a pause.
Few predicted accurately at the time, future diff.
We were, all of us in this thread, equally informed of their calculations and invited to do our own.
In fact we were re-reminded more than once.
Still got your homework?
How many were graded incomplete?
Of the accurate diff predictors, fewer still that also ordered Nep in the first place.
My recollection is that 'last second 1 box shipped @ 3.001T' was the consensus.
YMMV
Few predicted accurately at the time, future diff.
We were, all of us in this thread, equally informed of their calculations and invited to do our own.
In fact we were re-reminded more than once.
Still got your homework?
How many were graded incomplete?
Of the accurate diff predictors, fewer still that also ordered Nep in the first place.
My recollection is that 'last second 1 box shipped @ 3.001T' was the consensus.
YMMV
I think a great many were hoping for a surprise. It didn't happen. Hopefully the Neptoon penta-miner can be run at a higher rate than shipped.
Many accurately predicted delivery date exactly including what appears to be a pause.
Few predicted accurately at the time, future diff.
We were, all of us in this thread, equally informed of their calculations and invited to do our own.
In fact we were re-reminded more than once.
Still got your homework?
How many were graded incomplete?
Of the accurate diff predictors, fewer still that also ordered Nep in the first place.
My recollection is that 'last second 1 box shipped @ 3.001T' was the consensus.
YMMV
Few predicted accurately at the time, future diff.
We were, all of us in this thread, equally informed of their calculations and invited to do our own.
In fact we were re-reminded more than once.
Still got your homework?
How many were graded incomplete?
Of the accurate diff predictors, fewer still that also ordered Nep in the first place.
My recollection is that 'last second 1 box shipped @ 3.001T' was the consensus.
YMMV
negative bud i did
jesus do people read things all the way before they post a reply.
jesus do people read things all the way before they post a reply.
No, they don't, and people like Pheonix are notoriously bad at reading comprehension.
I just noticed your sig:
You've accepted you've been screwed. Therefore, why all the fuss?
You do realise if you mine 5BTC with a Neptune and the price of BTC skyrockets to $2000/coin, all that means to you is you make back what you spent.
The guys with sense and good timing got back 22BTC for Neptune refunds. And if the price of BTC skyrockets to $2000/coin, they will have pocketed a cool $44,000. With no hassles, no electricity costs, no RMA's etc.
Argue away, but you do know you were screwed by KNC. I don't see why you are defending them. Unless it's Stockholm Syndrome
Quote
My BTC mining address : 1NoRoihSKUCsXy1XKuy5KaFhqZsad1ETUn
You've accepted you've been screwed. Therefore, why all the fuss?
You do realise if you mine 5BTC with a Neptune and the price of BTC skyrockets to $2000/coin, all that means to you is you make back what you spent.
The guys with sense and good timing got back 22BTC for Neptune refunds. And if the price of BTC skyrockets to $2000/coin, they will have pocketed a cool $44,000. With no hassles, no electricity costs, no RMA's etc.
Argue away, but you do know you were screwed by KNC. I don't see why you are defending them. Unless it's Stockholm Syndrome
i got 21 BTC in fiat back from my originally bought Neptune with ~11 BTC. Thank you KNC for giving me the option to refund at around $1150 BTC price. Zero reason for me to hold on to my Neptune order in February when i can just get twice the amount of BTC without the risk of ASIC preorder blues.
Bought 20 BTC when it was ~$40
preordered a Neptune with ~11 BTC
refunded and used the fiat to buy ~21 BTC
zero heartache now about KNC screwing me over.
Funny thing about refunds, they only help the company with confidence of its consumers if they actually stick to their promises and production schedule.
I can guarantee you im not the only one that was keen enough to understand that if you used BTC to order a neptune at the high of the price then you basically locked in selling BTC at that price if you refunded.
Im not surprised they eventually are flipping over their refund policy. They are probably bleeding BTC for fiat like crazy now that it costs twice as much BTC to get fiat refunds into peoples hands.
Go back and re-sharpen that pencil.... I find this hard to believe... You refunded on the opening day of Neptune preorder and made coin?
The price never went that high at any time during the Neptune pre-order "refund era",
Neptunes went up for preorder on December 2nd, and the price was indeed "peaking" around the 1150 price you quote...
It then went down from that day(was actually that price for only a brief moment that day), and it NEVER returned.... so how could you have possibly refunded at 1150 and still make coin? Impossible. You would have had to have refunded at a LOWER price to make coin on that deal.
It's obvious you came here to join the trolling bandwagon with a fistfull of Bullshit.
If you're gonna make shit up, at least get the numbers right.
negative bud i did not refund on the opening day of Neptune orders.
go back and scan for some month time frames on when i said i got my refund.
jesus do people read things all the way before they post a reply.
NEWS FLASH!
My order says "Order #151## In progress" so it looks like I'm not getting my refund (which I requested as soon as spec was released, before they started shipping).
u27
funny how it always seems to work out that way with a asic mnfg company......My order says "Order #151## In progress" so it looks like I'm not getting my refund (which I requested as soon as spec was released, before they started shipping).
u27
I am sorry for your loss (I have a Titan coming....will join you in grief soon the way things seem will likely get a box of parts)
Searing
I feel your pain re Titan; difference is that Titan was not listed as refundable.
NEWS FLASH!
My order says "Order #151## In progress" so it looks like I'm not getting my refund (which I requested as soon as spec was released, before they started shipping).
u27
My order says "Order #151## In progress" so it looks like I'm not getting my refund (which I requested as soon as spec was released, before they started shipping).
u27
funny how it always seems to work out that way with a asic mnfg company......
I am sorry for your loss (I have a Titan coming....will join you in grief soon the way things seem will likely get a box of parts)
Searing
NEWS FLASH!
My order says "Order #151## In progress" so it looks like I'm not getting my refund (which I requested as soon as spec was released, before they started shipping).
u27
My order says "Order #151## In progress" so it looks like I'm not getting my refund (which I requested as soon as spec was released, before they started shipping).
u27
KfC did some good propaganda, trying to mislead people into thinking Q1 was ever possible.
It's not surprising when they were putting blatant and misleading (you could call it fraudulent) info out there:
February 2014 Newsletter:
Seriously, KfC say nothing in their newsletter, leaving their customers scrambling for clues. When customers see something like that, they desperately clung to the Q1 delivery hope. Even I was beginning to think KfC could ship in Q1, until buttcoinorama dropped the "preliminary design stages" bomb and revealed the extent of KNC misrepresentations (aka lies).
Then I went back to my original belief that KfC would deliver late, like they have done 100% of the time. It's now the second week of Q3 - they maintain their 100% record of delivering late!
So they have a 100% track record of delivering late. That's what I base my numbers on - what they have done over and over again - 100% of the time.
They say Q2, it could easily mean "first weeks in Q3". That's totally consistent with what they have done 100% of the time so far. If you think they will suddenly change that, when going out into uncharted water's with 20nm, you are welcome to delude yourself into believing that. It's much more realistic to look at what a company have done 100% of the time to work out how they will perform in the future.
People wouldn't believe this when I said it back in Q4, 2013. Well some did, but most didn't and said I was trolling. I don't think 100% accurately predicting when KNC would ship 7 months ago is trolling.
It's better to look at what KNC have done in the past to figure out what they will do next, rather than believe any of the misrepresentation/lies/propaganda/deceipt/fraudulent claims they spread in newsletters etc.
It's not surprising when they were putting blatant and misleading (you could call it fraudulent) info out there:
February 2014 Newsletter:
"As we are getting closer to the launch date of Neptune"
Seriously, KfC say nothing in their newsletter, leaving their customers scrambling for clues. When customers see something like that, they desperately clung to the Q1 delivery hope. Even I was beginning to think KfC could ship in Q1, until buttcoinorama dropped the "preliminary design stages" bomb and revealed the extent of KNC misrepresentations (aka lies).
Then I went back to my original belief that KfC would deliver late, like they have done 100% of the time. It's now the second week of Q3 - they maintain their 100% record of delivering late!
Q2 begins in 3 months, 2 weeks.... not seven months... and the ststement said q1/q2, so could be sooner.
KNC have shipped *everything* late. Even, somehow, boards they had in stock So they have a 100% track record of delivering late. That's what I base my numbers on - what they have done over and over again - 100% of the time. They say Q2, it could easily mean "first weeks in Q3". That's totally consistent with what they have done 100% of the time so far. If you think they will suddenly change that, when going out into uncharted water's with 20nm, you are welcome to delude yourself into believing that. It's much more realistic to look at what a company have done 100% of the time to work out how they will perform in the future.
People wouldn't believe this when I said it back in Q4, 2013. Well some did, but most didn't and said I was trolling. I don't think 100% accurately predicting when KNC would ship 7 months ago is trolling.
It's better to look at what KNC have done in the past to figure out what they will do next, rather than believe any of the misrepresentation/lies/propaganda/deceipt/fraudulent claims they spread in newsletters etc.
Q1/Q2 implies possibility in Q1 Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Admittedly, I was gullible enough to think it was a possibility. 
+1
ah the days when I thought BFL was 'evil' and KNC was "good" ....frigging turned into a 'LOST' television episode
in the last year (oh it was all a dream..ok then.....)..how money corrupts I guess is the moral of the story here.
too much drama
Searing
being retarded in more ways than one is hardly the same as being gullible.
and then 'FREAAKing out' at other peoples comprehension skills while you yourself remain willfully ignorant and aggressively retarded is sadly hilarious.
@Tolip - i dont think im part of any pity party (other than its a pity KnC are cunts), im actually glad i refunded when i did and wish id done it sooner!
YOU, ConMan & probably ElasticBand are the ONLY guys i know of that should have stuck with their orders.
@ ArcticFox 'not caring' that you lost value, thats pretty disingenuous for someone smart enough to be here in the first place. (dont.be.a.phoenix!)
but each to his own, i understand where you are coming from but KNOW there were better options for you that you chose to 'not care about'
and then 'FREAAKing out' at other peoples comprehension skills while you yourself remain willfully ignorant and aggressively retarded is sadly hilarious.
@Tolip - i dont think im part of any pity party (other than its a pity KnC are cunts), im actually glad i refunded when i did and wish id done it sooner!
YOU, ConMan & probably ElasticBand are the ONLY guys i know of that should have stuck with their orders.
@ ArcticFox 'not caring' that you lost value, thats pretty disingenuous for someone smart enough to be here in the first place. (dont.be.a.phoenix!)
but each to his own, i understand where you are coming from but KNOW there were better options for you that you chose to 'not care about'
I woukd like to add, despite all the fun i had playing with jupiters, i did refund my neptune a few ko thss ago. It cost me 13.85btc and i got 27.75 back, i wonder how much knc managed to mine though......
Now, I'm start thinking how lucky I am, I was blame myself on forgot pay my neppy order 2 weeks ago, when the time knc start shipping, and look at the diff chart on blockchain, I start to feel ease.
being retarded in more ways than one is hardly the same as being gullible.
and then 'FREAAKing out' at other peoples comprehension skills while you yourself remain willfully ignorant and aggressively retarded is sadly hilarious.
@Tolip - i dont think im part of any pity party (other than its a pity KnC are cunts), im actually glad i refunded when i did and wish id done it sooner!
YOU, ConMan & probably ElasticBand are the ONLY guys i know of that should have stuck with their orders.
@ ArcticFox 'not caring' that you lost value, thats pretty disingenuous for someone smart enough to be here in the first place. (dont.be.a.phoenix!)
but each to his own, i understand where you are coming from but KNOW there were better options for you that you chose to 'not care about'
Cmon Edgar, you ordered a machine, so you "Drank the KoolAid" too. Nobody would have bought a machine thinking the first Neppie would be shipped on the very last day of Q2... Did you? I refunded my orders as well... I guess were both retarded then. and then 'FREAAKing out' at other peoples comprehension skills while you yourself remain willfully ignorant and aggressively retarded is sadly hilarious.
@Tolip - i dont think im part of any pity party (other than its a pity KnC are cunts), im actually glad i refunded when i did and wish id done it sooner!
YOU, ConMan & probably ElasticBand are the ONLY guys i know of that should have stuck with their orders.
@ ArcticFox 'not caring' that you lost value, thats pretty disingenuous for someone smart enough to be here in the first place. (dont.be.a.phoenix!)
but each to his own, i understand where you are coming from but KNOW there were better options for you that you chose to 'not care about'
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