Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network - page 54. (Read 309762 times)
Smart folks might have hedged as I did.
Still, it does seem unfair if market price drops immediately on folks who only expected to be buying at <31 cents. I did end up keeping some unlocked coins at 66 cents and am slightly underwater on those now. Perhaps a "price protected period" is in order.
My suggestion would be
----Set a date everyone must decide by (1 week from now - example July 7)
----Offer a more than usual LOCKED discount for these folks (already done, but not specified what %)
----Anyone who purchases in this 1 week window, gets the lowest daily average (high-low) bittrex price for the following week (Example July 7 - 14), with a floor of the June prices.
Quote
june's prices can be seen in terms relative to the market price. one might claim that this is an even more accurate way to look at the price. the number 19 or 66 are not typological numbers. people decide to buy or not according (but not only) to market price.
I think actually the market price is tracking what is going on here. E.g. its 66cents right now. It seems to have climbed on some belief that coin supply was exhausted (which was almost true) and that price would be increased to 10x for remaining. When it became clear that wasn't true, the price fell.
I still don't understand why it's fair to publish a price in writing, collect funds, and then retroactively announce that the price will now be higher for those collected funds because the market price increased.
Fully agree. It seems I am not the only one as you said a few posts ago. breaking your word is breaking your asset. I know enough and am sure it's inadvertent, but i think that you are caught in the moment. The bitrex price (already 63 cents and will likely continue down) should have nothing to do with your new decision.
as promised, following is the status, some discussion, and decisions:
1. ~$2m pending on the tentative sale address. add to that some more funds i got in alts, ~100btc worth.
2. 60% of all tokens were sold (initially we planned to sell no more than 50% before tau is ready), i.e. ~25m tokens out of 42m. that's aside the tentative sale. we decided to dedicate between 3m to 4.2m tokens to the tentatives.
3. june's price was around 16-37 cents, depends on amounts and lock/unlock.
4. curernt market price is ~70c.
5. for unlocked tokens, only, it seems reasonable to distribute 3m tokens for ~$2m, i.e. ~66c a token.
6. locked tokens should get much more discount, beyond the normal 15%, on this case. more towards june's prices.
7. therefore we suggest two rounds:
a. people who are interested in an immediate refund, can ask for it now.
b. people who are interested in locked tokens, let me know, or in the worst case, we'll lock your tokens afterwards.
c. in several hours from now, i'll send to the remaining tentative buyers the unlocked tokens according to 66c cents (and corresponding btc refunds).
d. after we know the amount of money interested in locked tokens, we can offer a price in june's range, with limited supply. the whole over-60% sale will not exceed 4.2m tokens whatsoever (namely a refund will take place accordingly).
1. ~$2m pending on the tentative sale address. add to that some more funds i got in alts, ~100btc worth.
2. 60% of all tokens were sold (initially we planned to sell no more than 50% before tau is ready), i.e. ~25m tokens out of 42m. that's aside the tentative sale. we decided to dedicate between 3m to 4.2m tokens to the tentatives.
3. june's price was around 16-37 cents, depends on amounts and lock/unlock.
4. curernt market price is ~70c.
5. for unlocked tokens, only, it seems reasonable to distribute 3m tokens for ~$2m, i.e. ~66c a token.
6. locked tokens should get much more discount, beyond the normal 15%, on this case. more towards june's prices.
7. therefore we suggest two rounds:
a. people who are interested in an immediate refund, can ask for it now.
b. people who are interested in locked tokens, let me know, or in the worst case, we'll lock your tokens afterwards.
c. in several hours from now, i'll send to the remaining tentative buyers the unlocked tokens according to 66c cents (and corresponding btc refunds).
d. after we know the amount of money interested in locked tokens, we can offer a price in june's range, with limited supply. the whole over-60% sale will not exceed 4.2m tokens whatsoever (namely a refund will take place accordingly).
Hi Ohad, many thanks for this. There's a bit here for me to digest, and I'm just reading this, it's 6am here in Sydney. I probably won't be able to read all this till tonight away from hungry screaming kids etc.
Some questions:
1. How long do we have to decide refund vs take up "tentative" fund offer
2. Say for 1btc in the "tentative" funds, what % of btc would I get back and what % would I receive in AGRS (ie whats the scale back?)
3. If I decide to lock my AGRS tokens from the "tentative" funds, would I get the June price range with discount?
Many thanks
EDIT: I'm reading through the posts so I'll try to clarify some of my questions.
1. How long do we have to decide? It seems like 23:59 5 July UTC, right?
2. If I accept the locked token offer for btc deposited here (12rcPRK8adxrPN9aQ4xc1gjMAJvBD1GHuw), what is the offer price, and per BTC how much AGRS will I get vs. how much BTC will I be refunded (e.g. will I get 60% per btc refunded because of limited supply?)
3. How long are tokens locked for?
4. If I accept the unlocked token offer for btc deposited here (12rcPRK8adxrPN9aQ4xc1gjMAJvBD1GHuw), per BTC how much AGRS will I get vs. how much BTC will be refunded?
5. What is the best way to communicate my decision re my funds contributed? via PM on this forum or email?
Huge thanks!
Quote
june's prices can be seen in terms relative to the market price. one might claim that this is an even more accurate way to look at the price. the number 19 or 66 are not typological numbers. people decide to buy or not according (but not only) to market price.
I think actually the market price is tracking what is going on here. E.g. its 66cents right now. It seems to have climbed on some belief that coin supply was exhausted (which was almost true) and that price would be increased to 10x for remaining. When it became clear that wasn't true, the price fell.
I still don't understand why it's fair to publish a price in writing, collect funds, and then retroactively announce that the price will now be higher for those collected funds because the market price increased.
c. in several hours from now, i'll send to the remaining tentative buyers the unlocked tokens according to 66c cents (and corresponding btc refunds).
Please allow more than a few hours for us to decide. This is a rather difficult decision, and you just now presented us with very different information (i.e. the price) than we had been led to believe prior. Please do not send any coins today.
I propose end of day July 3?
there's time to decide, nothing is irreversible upon agreement. we just have to finish this all not after 5th of july.
back to the above point,
can look at june's prices in cents.
can also look at them as %% of market price. and they were quite in the middle of the market price (~25c on market mostly, and unlocked price as high as 37c, or 19c after full wholesale discount). that's why we wanted to raise the direct sale price x2 or x10 (not to pump the price on bittrex. which wicked mind would think i'll do such a thing? im not taking money from pumps or fancy-buzzwordy websites or any world-destroying activity, im not such a low life form).
so,
june's prices can be seen in terms relative to the market price. one might claim that this is an even more accurate way to look at the price. the number 19 or 66 are not typological numbers. people decide to buy or not according (but not only) to market price.
good points, but we need to weigh it comparing to the other hand. selling a lot of unlocked tokens at half the market price is not good for anyone. no?
I dont understand why? The market price went crazy due to misinformation and FUD. Now you are changing the sale price, which you had already clearly written out in that spreadsheet, in response to crazy swings in the market price? That doesn't make any sense, nor does it seem very honest. The market will price things as it will, but you gave your price to us in writing, then accepted an enormous amount of funds before announcing a new price due to a very recent market price change.
Does that seem fair to anyone else?
My final verdict on this coin is that FOMO on it is so high that I'm going to hold. Why dev and others on the team (if they exist) are totally uninterested in marketing their idea remains a mistery. Probably they don't want the hype...anyway I hope this becomes the ETH 2.0 as it has an autoregulatory idea behind it that others don't...
I wish Ohad sucesss and once more suggest that he finds someone to do his social networking PR for him as he is really bad at it
))
Cheers!
I wish Ohad sucesss and once more suggest that he finds someone to do his social networking PR for him as he is really bad at it
))Cheers!
c. in several hours from now, i'll send to the remaining tentative buyers the unlocked tokens according to 66c cents (and corresponding btc refunds).
Please allow more than a few hours for us to decide. This is a rather difficult decision, and you just now presented us with very different information (i.e. the price) than we had been led to believe prior. Please do not send any coins today.
I propose end of day July 3?
If Ohad pulls this off, whatever price you bought at today will be nothing compared to the price you'll see when the product is released.
If Ohad pulls this off, them IRS fuckers will come at us with Black Hawk choppers looking for their cut!!!
non sense look at etheruem
what does ethereum have to do with anything?
i hear you. and i heard also dozens of more opinions, and with all respect, you're the only one thinking so. i can reconsider everything but i need to see a wider consensus
I also think increasing the price (over 3x!) is completely unfair. We are still in June and you are still selling coins and there is a price schedule published for June. Personally, I went to considerable lengths to be able to get some liquid coins to put into this. You never mentioned you might (drastically) increase the price for the tentative sale.
I'm feeling like you are breaking your word.
all tentative buyers, please get back to me regarding whether you're interested in refund/locked/unlocked, as in https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19878061
Hello Ohad
I am new user to this forum, and am a tentative buyer as in I sent you funds in onmiwallet yesterday, and just sent you an email regarding my interest in the tokens with my omniwallet address.
Thanks for the great work!
all tentative buyers, please get back to me regarding whether you're interested in refund/locked/unlocked, as in https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19878061
If Ohad pulls this off, whatever price you bought at today will be nothing compared to the price you'll see when the product is released.
If Ohad pulls this off, them IRS fuckers will come at us with Black Hawk choppers looking for their cut!!!
non sense look at etheruem
Ohad, Just do what's best for the future of the community. The main thing is the final product! Who is not patient - that's his problem! This is a long term project. Most importantly, you were able to implement their ideas. The rest is not so important.
much appreciated
It looks like everyone is it in for themselves here. Me me me, I want XXX. This isn't an insert coin and he does what you want.
This is a start up. You pay if you believe in the underlying technology and the ability for the dev to execute.
Let the guy build. You should have looked before buying, now you're trying to change what early investors agreed to. All opinions valid ofcourse - even the insults.
If many of you were true investors you'd thank Ohad for being so blunt and honest. The truth is, not many people can understand the majority of the tech in the crypo space but they buy. The past day or two of posts have been eye opening to say the least. There are people still screaming about how cool blockchains are and pushing that garbage in the media when it's just a useless ledger. When you see someone as honest as Ohad, don't moan that you don't like certain elements, be grateful that there's open information so you can make an informed decision. You should avoid things you're not happy with or don't understand or, spend time watching the videos, reading the questions and posts from the beginning of the forum.
Are you really telling me you'd rather have a nice: Website, Blog and everything looking pretty and be 1 year away from alpha more than no website/blog and be 6 months from alpha? Why would you want a website with the same information that you can read on this forum other than it looking nice, raising the price and you dumping your coins.
You also have to remember that this project isn't the job of any normal developer you can hire off Upwork (I just checked certain technical keywords on Upwork to verify and yep you guessed it, no results) Ohad is likely one of the most talented devs full stop, let alone in the crypto space. You don't just "hire" for this kind of project, not many devs understand the project. It's very talented and high level work. All of this "I bought too high" bullshit is meaningless. Are the 1 usd buyers of BTC/ETH/DASH complaining? Tell me if you think they're worried about that time they didn't buy at 50cents. If Ohad pulls this off, whatever price you bought at today will be nothing compared to the price you'll see when the product is released.
You bought, you can always sell. Know that Ohad will be going for the product. You need to up your trading game or go long term. There are refunds for those that want out and bittrex for those that want more. Fair is fair. I personally want more.
Ohad, after today i'd free up as much of your time as possible. Give definitive info on the sale of tokens and back to work on the product.
This is a start up. You pay if you believe in the underlying technology and the ability for the dev to execute.
Let the guy build. You should have looked before buying, now you're trying to change what early investors agreed to. All opinions valid ofcourse - even the insults.
If many of you were true investors you'd thank Ohad for being so blunt and honest. The truth is, not many people can understand the majority of the tech in the crypo space but they buy. The past day or two of posts have been eye opening to say the least. There are people still screaming about how cool blockchains are and pushing that garbage in the media when it's just a useless ledger. When you see someone as honest as Ohad, don't moan that you don't like certain elements, be grateful that there's open information so you can make an informed decision. You should avoid things you're not happy with or don't understand or, spend time watching the videos, reading the questions and posts from the beginning of the forum.
Are you really telling me you'd rather have a nice: Website, Blog and everything looking pretty and be 1 year away from alpha more than no website/blog and be 6 months from alpha? Why would you want a website with the same information that you can read on this forum other than it looking nice, raising the price and you dumping your coins.
You also have to remember that this project isn't the job of any normal developer you can hire off Upwork (I just checked certain technical keywords on Upwork to verify and yep you guessed it, no results) Ohad is likely one of the most talented devs full stop, let alone in the crypto space. You don't just "hire" for this kind of project, not many devs understand the project. It's very talented and high level work. All of this "I bought too high" bullshit is meaningless. Are the 1 usd buyers of BTC/ETH/DASH complaining? Tell me if you think they're worried about that time they didn't buy at 50cents. If Ohad pulls this off, whatever price you bought at today will be nothing compared to the price you'll see when the product is released.
You bought, you can always sell. Know that Ohad will be going for the product. You need to up your trading game or go long term. There are refunds for those that want out and bittrex for those that want more. Fair is fair. I personally want more.
Ohad, after today i'd free up as much of your time as possible. Give definitive info on the sale of tokens and back to work on the product.
i hear you. and i heard also dozens of more opinions, and with all respect, you're the only one thinking so. i can reconsider everything but i need to see a wider consensus
good points, but we need to weigh it comparing to the other hand. selling a lot of unlocked tokens at half the market price is not good for anyone. no?
[/quote]
Ohad. I think that you are being caught off guard with the fomo based price increase (caused by your own 10x talk) and are about to lose something much more valuable.
YOUR WORD is the strongest and ONLY valuable and tangible asset in this project thus far.
It is the basis for the hopes for a white paper "sometime", for new code instead of the old one instead of the older one and it is the only reason aside from an academic discussion to believe in this project.
THUS- you shouldn't make a decision that changes a previous commitment made just a few days ago because there was some FOMO of new comers.
This breaks every rule in the integrity book. You said something, you published an excel with prices just a few days ago, you set a July 1st deadline-
JUST STICK WITH IT.
Locked or unlocked. based on the excel.
The price was also $1.4 a day ago. so what if it was $0.66 at 1pm today? it can be 20 cents again tomorrow. I think you are shooting your self in the foot right now by breaking your word.
Also saying that 10x is not relevant anymore and old talk is also a problem because this was the reason for the FOMO that caused the price to be 1.4 or 0.66 in the first place which is the price point you are now using. You cant have the cake and eat it too.
i am very disappointed if you indeed not change your 1pm decision and go back to what YOU said up to June 28th. NOT FAIR.
[/quote]
Ohad. I think that you are being caught off guard with the fomo based price increase (caused by your own 10x talk) and are about to lose something much more valuable.
YOUR WORD is the strongest and ONLY valuable and tangible asset in this project thus far.
It is the basis for the hopes for a white paper "sometime", for new code instead of the old one instead of the older one and it is the only reason aside from an academic discussion to believe in this project.
THUS- you shouldn't make a decision that changes a previous commitment made just a few days ago because there was some FOMO of new comers.
This breaks every rule in the integrity book. You said something, you published an excel with prices just a few days ago, you set a July 1st deadline-
JUST STICK WITH IT.
Locked or unlocked. based on the excel.
The price was also $1.4 a day ago. so what if it was $0.66 at 1pm today? it can be 20 cents again tomorrow. I think you are shooting your self in the foot right now by breaking your word.
Also saying that 10x is not relevant anymore and old talk is also a problem because this was the reason for the FOMO that caused the price to be 1.4 or 0.66 in the first place which is the price point you are now using. You cant have the cake and eat it too.
i am very disappointed if you indeed not change your 1pm decision and go back to what YOU said up to June 28th. NOT FAIR.
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