Topic: The problem with atheism. - page 17. (Read 38470 times)

No, computers are perfectly predictable. If they weren't, they'd be of no use.

given the often unpredictable behaviours of computers, I would have to say yes! 

Does it matter that our cosciousness is not like software on an interchangeable CPU, but is a function of a series of physical networks in the brain, and the only way to make a copy of someone's consciousness is to make an exact physical duplicate of mesh of neurons in the brain? I.e. our minda are mor a product of physical interractions of electrons and chemicals along unique physical paths, like gears and cogs in clockwork, rather than information stored in digital form that is free to exist on any system that allows information to be written. So, sorry, I guess a better analogy/question would have been, does a wind-up clock's time keeping exist outside of it's mechanism?
But, I guess eventually, thanks to the turing principle, if computers get fast enough, such a physical/mechanical system can be simulated in a digital form...

Basically, yes.  I think the body is one of potentially many suitable vessels for consciousness.  I really have no idea how this would work in practice, but I've had experiences of my consciousness transcending my body, albeit briefly. 

Although, I wouldn't call consciousness just some ordinary brand of software.  I don't necessarily believe, for example, that there is something analogous to a software creator that created consciousness outside of consciousness itself.

Oh, so is that how you see our "cosciousness," just software running on a computer, and the computer being (eventually, far in the future) swappable?

Well, when you go to the store, can you buy software and operating systems independent of CPUs and memory?  Sure, they're different.

Dawkins is not "atheism", he's an atheist.

There is no atheism agenda, although some atheists may have their own agendas.

I assume you believe that the software and operating system are also separate from the CPU and memory they are running on?

I'd love to know why you find that funny.

Lol!

Computer operating systems, CPUs,and software are expressions of consciousness.  In fact, all technology is an expression of consciousness.

I really have no idea what you are talking about.  Brain and consciousness are, afaik, one of the most active research areas in science where many discoveries have been made and many discoveries are yet to be made.  The mystery of consciousness is yet to be fully unravelled.

That doesn't mean there is some supernatural element to it.  In fact, what reason is there to think there might be a supernatural element to either that or anything else for that matter?  We are yet to see anything that might indicate this in any way.   

Personally, I consider the neuroscientist who actually studies, thinks and experiments on the brain to have more credibility than the stoner telling me all about god is the universe and truth and love.

There are several Gods, The sun (Ra) is one of them.

AU

Where does the operating system and software come from, if not from the CPU? Is computer software just an illusion being experienced by a computer?

Consciousness is an emerging property.
That's why it's difficult to grasp with simple reasoning.

Just look at ant. Each ant is a dumb soldier that act simply in response to external stimuli.
Whereas ant nest are more complex and able to achieve complex behaviour, such as finding the shortest way to food, building the nest, defending from aggressor etc...

The same is true about cells which constitute a plant for example, those cell are basic, but together they build complex trees with flower fruit and so on...

When you consider the brain, the neurons have basic properties, but when you put billion of them and interconnect them thousands of times, you get conscience as an emerging behaviour.
So yes you can't say which one give you the conscience since it comes from the union !

Yeah, I can do the same, it's kind of improving your immune system, or controlling the placebo effect with your mind.
But there is no magic in that.

And it's far from modifying you DNA, or even more modifying your spermatozoid DNA, which is the only way of propagating those modification down the hereditary tree.

That's easy, the Ori do

Convenient.   

I'm positive, I've been tested for allergies several times including some massive test where they stuck me over 100 times on my back with various common allergic substances with zero allergic reactions.  The most radical change was the reduction of a 101-something fever to under 99, though I forget exactly.  However, the effect was permanent and the fever didn't return.  I've had about a half-dozen experiences similar to this over the span of about 3 or 4 years, including almost every instance of sickness I've experienced within that time-frame.

I also think it's worth mentioning that when I meditate on a regular basis, I require about 1-2 fewer hours of sleep per night to feel as energized throughout the day as I would if I weren't meditating consistently.  When meditating regularly, I can do fine on 5-6 hours per night, otherwise I need at least 7-8 to feel rested.

By the way, it takes two to tango.  Virus cells don't just cause sickness, but rather  sickness is also dependent upon the person's immune system.  If two people are exposed to the same cold virus but only one person gets sick, you can't say that the virus caused the sickness.  In meditation, you (naturally) alter your breathing such that you are actually taking in more oxygen and producing more ATP.  A lot of people breath from their chest, so-to-speak, and aren't even aware of it, and this is usually a sign of subliminal tension.  When you chest-breathe, the air sacs at the bottom of your lungs aren't receiving oxygen like the air sacs at the top.  During meditation, stomach-breathing (just what you observe when you see someone sleeping) happens, and oxygen penetrates deeper into the lungs.

Are you sure it wasn't just a temporary allergy? Something had to have happened to all those virus cells in your body. They can't just disappear because you thought about it in some special way.