UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread - page 724.

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Quote from: 3meek on May 18, 2021, 02:31:24 AM

I don't understand why so many people here are talking about Chelsea... In my opinion Man City looks much stronger! I think they have no problem winning the Champions League... And win home and UEFA championships... Wink

Why not? I mean they did lose the last two games,,, but Arsenal and Leicester City anyway are not such terrible teams so to lose to them even as favorites is not a really bad thing. Of course City are stronger but there is almost no doubt that experience matters a lot in Champions League and maybe the few strong experienced veterans including Tuchel himself can get the best out of Chelsea and City can

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Quote from: 3meek on May 18, 2021, 02:31:24 AM

I don't understand why so many people here are talking about Chelsea... In my opinion Man City looks much stronger! I think they have no problem winning the Champions League... And win home and UEFA championships... Wink

Chelsea beat Manchester City in their last game. Maybe that's why most people speak for Chelsea. Maybe it's because they think Chelsea are slightly less likely to win the UCL than Manchester City. I also think Manchester City will win. But it will still be a fierce match.

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I don't understand why so many people here are talking about Chelsea... In my opinion Man City looks much stronger! I think they have no problem winning the Champions League... And win home and UEFA championships... Wink

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Quote from: kassex on May 17, 2021, 02:17:42 PM

The first time Chelsea won the Champions League as a result of luck.

Luck is needed in soccer. You need luck to win a single match but to win a trophy, it is not simply luck. Chelsea have beaten some strong teams and they deserve the spot in Champions League final. If they win that final match, I don't call they are a lucky champion.

Quote from: Mistafreeze on May 17, 2021, 09:45:36 PM

There is nothing like lucky winners, Chelsea played the best teams from the group stage to the final, winning Barcelona on their home soil and proceed to the final to win Bayern in their home stadium if that's luck then I don't know what you call hard work. In the champions league it either you are tough or you go home. Reaching 8 semi final can never be a luck.

Chelsea have crazy honey moon with Tuchel that bring them to the fourth position in Premier League and the Champions League finale. Their performance becomes worse in the end of season but they will have three important matches to play. The finale in Champions League and the match against Leicester City in Premier League.

Tuchel has less experience in Champions League than Pep Guardiola. It can be a factor for difference in the finale. Another difference can be a general better quality of Manchester City players.

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Quote from: kassex on May 17, 2021, 02:17:42 PM

The first time Chelsea won the Champions League as a result of luck.

There is nothing like lucky winners, Chelsea played the best teams from the group stage to the final, winning Barcelona on their home soil and proceed to the final to win Bayern in their home stadium if that's luck then I don't know what you call hard work. In the champions league it either you are tough or you go home. Reaching 8 semi final can never be a luck.

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Quote from: kassex on May 17, 2021, 02:17:42 PM

The first time Chelsea won the Champions League as a result of luck.

No, it isn't caused by the luck factor only. I watched the match (final UCL 2012), all the Chelsea players did their best in that match, especially Drogba and Petr Čech. Please respect what they ever did with a full of struggle!

Also, reaching the final stage cannot rely on luck. If Chelsea players didn't play with their best performance, they must fail before reaching the final UCL. So, we are better to not call it "the luck result"! Wink

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Quote from: masulum on May 17, 2021, 06:34:02 PM

I am a little surprised if it turns out that this season's UCL final will be moved to Portugal, and making Estádio do Dragão as host of this final, in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic that is currently threatening, UEFA made this decision in order to bring 6000 fans to the stadium. Didn't this cause chaos in the country at the end of the game?

We are talking about Portugal! Unfortunately, here tolerance everything and then complain... Anyway...
What is a pity is that Portugal accepts these events, with the aim of promoting itself, and then other EU countries simply devalue this beautiful country.
It's a shame...

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Quote from: masulum on May 17, 2021, 06:34:02 PM

I am a little surprised if it turns out that this season's UCL final will be moved to Portugal, and making Estádio do Dragão as host of this final, in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic that is currently threatening, UEFA made this decision in order to bring 6000 fans to the stadium. Didn't this cause chaos in the country at the end of the game?

The British government simply did not want to meet UEFA halfway and relax the requirements for incoming guests so that they do not comply with the quarantine, as well as increase the number of spectators. And Portugal, unlike Turkey, is not on the red list of the UK authorities and you only need to pass 2 tests for coronavirus to enter and leave. Moreover, last year Portugal did a great job in organizing the final tournament of the Champions League and this year the authorities gave all the necessary guarantees. Also, I am not sure that chaos will reign throughout the country because of 12 thousand fans, it seems that the English fans are not as boundless as before Wink

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hmph..

I am a little surprised if it turns out that this season's UCL final will be moved to Portugal, and making Estádio do Dragão as host of this final, in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic that is currently threatening, UEFA made this decision in order to bring 6000 fans to the stadium. Didn't this cause chaos in the country at the end of the game?

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Quote from: justdimin on May 17, 2021, 04:33:42 PM

Quote from: kassex on May 17, 2021, 02:17:42 PM

~Snipped

Even though I hate the "park the bus" system as much as the next guy and never found it a good football, I have to say that wasn't luck at all, that wasn't remotely anything close to luck, that was the strategy and tactic they were playing. All they did was park the bus on defense and close up, not get scored, let the other team attack and attack and attack and at some point other team usually gets so far ahead that with just one long ball your players could get a huge counter attack chance.

This was done by mourinho for years, Chelsea was specially magnificent in that regard, they were playing it so well that they won the champions league basically parking the bus whole season, even against the inferior teams as well just so they could basically keep the system going. Which is why I wouldn't call what happened a lucky break, they were in the finals after all.

Those were the days where packing the bus was more likely to earn the team a win since the strategy is a defensive one that explores the weakness of the opposing side by keeping all attacks at bay and striking whenever they have a chance to do so using a counter attack. It worked for a while but didn't take lomg for other teams to start finding a way out of such system. Just try as much as possible to score them 1-2 games and they'd be out to try and equalize and that's a window to increase the lead even further.

There's a saying that sometimes the best offense is more defense. But they have to do better if they want to win City at the final.

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Quote from: kassex on May 17, 2021, 02:17:42 PM

The first time Chelsea won the Champions League as a result of luck. The entire match was played on the defensive. Bayern in that final was more worthy of victory than Chelsea. Today, Chelsea cannot play that way. Other players, a different coach and another stronger opponent. unresolved issue with qualifying for the Champions League next year, I will still bet on Manchester City.

Even though I hate the "park the bus" system as much as the next guy and never found it a good football, I have to say that wasn't luck at all, that wasn't remotely anything close to luck, that was the strategy and tactic they were playing. All they did was park the bus on defense and close up, not get scored, let the other team attack and attack and attack and at some point other team usually gets so far ahead that with just one long ball your players could get a huge counter attack chance.

This was done by mourinho for years, Chelsea was specially magnificent in that regard, they were playing it so well that they won the champions league basically parking the bus whole season, even against the inferior teams as well just so they could basically keep the system going. Which is why I wouldn't call what happened a lucky break, they were in the finals after all.

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Quote from: kassex on May 17, 2021, 02:17:42 PM

The first time Chelsea won the Champions League as a result of luck. The entire match was played on the defensive. Bayern in that final was more worthy of victory than Chelsea. Today, Chelsea cannot play that way. Other players, a different coach and another stronger opponent. unresolved issue with qualifying for the Champions League next year, I will still bet on Manchester City.

It was a shamble season for Chelsea in 2011-2012. They sacked 2 managers (Carlo Ancelotti, André Villas-Boas) and ended their EPL being 6th on the table with Roberto Di Matteo (caretaker manager)I wouldnt call their win a luck though. They beat Barcelona doing basically the same strategy. Defend hard and counter attack harder. Bayern fully knew what was coming and still fell pray to it. Can only give props to Chelsea for pulling it off. There's a saying in the NBA ... Offense wins you games, Defense wins championships. Chelsea proved it that season.

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Quote from: mv1986 on May 16, 2021, 05:19:56 PM

Quote from: Coyster on May 16, 2021, 10:59:08 AM

Quote from: kassex on May 16, 2021, 10:02:16 AM

Tuchel lost one final against PSG. Recently lost another one against Chelsea and this time to Leicester. I think this one will also lose. Especially the opponent of Manchester City. The team is stronger than Leicester and stronger than Bayern. And very eager to win the Champions League.

The both teams are eager to win the CL alike, not just City, Chelsea have won it before, just once though, but I'm pretty sure they'll be eager to make it two, Pep has won it twice, but that's a long time ago, Tuchel has never won it, but went as far as the final last season, everyone involved in the final needs this trophy, for pride, bragging right, reputation, to assert dominance etc.

City have dominated English football in the past decade, it's just the CL that has eluded them thus far, quite a lot of people believe that's the reason Pep was signed, he now has the opportunity to beat his chest as the only manager in City's history to have won every major trophy for them, it's going to be an enthralling final on the 29th, but I'm of the opinion that Pep will outwit Tuchel in the end.

This is a clash of the giants in terms of their history regarding finals and achievements and failures. Guardiola wants to get rid of the saying that he can only win with Messi, Tuchel wants to make it for the first time but Chelsea is losing steam just now. I would call that bad timing but a final is still a final. For him every game from now on will be a final and he can't even rotate within the team that much or he risks to lose the routine that has been built up within his team.

The first time Chelsea won the Champions League as a result of luck. The entire match was played on the defensive. Bayern in that final was more worthy of victory than Chelsea. Today, Chelsea cannot play that way. Other players, a different coach and another stronger opponent. unresolved issue with qualifying for the Champions League next year, I will still bet on Manchester City.

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Quote from: vennali on May 17, 2021, 10:15:47 AM

Money my dude! Chelsea and City have spent a ton of money for the clubs to even be competitive. Similar cases from both clubs. Early 90's Chelsea werent even top 10 team and later 90's and early 2000's Chelsea became competitive under Gullit, Vialli and then Claudio Ranieri's two was with the overtake of Chelsea by Roman Abramovic as they came 2nd. Chelsea brought in Mourinho and won the league straight away, Twice infact. Both teams are funded by infinite cash with any fair running business cannot compete with. Now, there are fair play rules in place but are they really being put in place? If your answer is yes, City wouldn't even be in champions league this and next season.

If I get you correctly, then, you can't blame them for being financially able and are using it to actually upgrade there team to be better prepared for the competition. Soccer might be a sport but it is too business and business is about using money to make money so, why should we expect anything different when there is a money price attached?
Of course the financial able would always bank on the cash to get a better chance at the games.
Manchester City spent a lot of cash, won the EPL and are now at the UCL finals for 5he first time. Hope they don't win though, lol. Pep Guardiola has archived so much with this team and his not done with them yet.

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Quote from: vennali on May 17, 2021, 10:15:47 AM

Now, there are fair play rules in place but are they really being put in place? If your answer is yes, City wouldn't even be in champions league this and next season.

Financial Fair Play? This is just theory, because in practice it only affects the smaller clubs in Europe.
The big ones, in addition to UEFA not being able to penalize, always arrange schemes so that this limit is never exceeded.
An example of this is City, Chelsea, PSG, and a few more.

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Quote from: joker_josue on May 17, 2021, 03:00:28 AM

Quote from: mv1986 on May 16, 2021, 05:19:56 PM

This is a clash of the giants in terms of their history regarding finals and achievements and failures. Guardiola wants to get rid of the saying that he can only win with Messi, Tuchel wants to make it for the first time but Chelsea is losing steam just now. I would call that bad timing but a final is still a final. For him every game from now on will be a final and he can't even rotate within the team that much or he risks to lose the routine that has been built up within his team.

Giants are not! Chelsea was not even considered a big club 20 years ago.
Fortunately, they are clubs that have grown a lot and despite not having a great track record in the competition, they deserve the current place they occupy.

You can say that this was thanks to the money coming from outside. But in football today, you can only be big with money.

Money my dude! Chelsea and City have spent a ton of money for the clubs to even be competitive. Similar cases from both clubs. Early 90's Chelsea werent even top 10 team and later 90's and early 2000's Chelsea became competitive under Gullit, Vialli and then Claudio Ranieri's two was with the overtake of Chelsea by Roman Abramovic as they came 2nd. Chelsea brought in Mourinho and won the league straight away, Twice infact. Both teams are funded by infinite cash with any fair running business cannot compete with. Now, there are fair play rules in place but are they really being put in place? If your answer is yes, City wouldn't even be in champions league this and next season.

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Quote from: mv1986 on May 16, 2021, 05:19:56 PM

This is a clash of the giants in terms of their history regarding finals and achievements and failures. Guardiola wants to get rid of the saying that he can only win with Messi, Tuchel wants to make it for the first time but Chelsea is losing steam just now. I would call that bad timing but a final is still a final. For him every game from now on will be a final and he can't even rotate within the team that much or he risks to lose the routine that has been built up within his team.

Giants are not! Chelsea was not even considered a big club 20 years ago.
Fortunately, they are clubs that have grown a lot and despite not having a great track record in the competition, they deserve the current place they occupy.

You can say that this was thanks to the money coming from outside. But in football today, you can only be big with money.

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Quote from: boltz on May 16, 2021, 07:08:44 PM

Hmm I won't call neither of the teams having a giant history but most likely a good recent history but so far City did not won a single international trophy so maybe it's time for that 2012 final when Chelsea had pure luck and a Drogba in monster mood to rotate around City and take the win and the tittle. Also Guardiola really lost ages from his life trying to win the UCL again with both Bayern and now with City so maybe it's time for him as Tuchel proved that he is a future coach that probably will win his title at some point , maybe even now but like I said the odds are with City and Pep.

They can be called as big teams in Premier League and giants in the last two decades. They are not deserved to be called as giants in England if consider all history of that national league, before and during the era of Premier League.

In Champions League, they are not giants. Chelsea have only one title, long time ago and this is the first final match for Manchester City.

With the changes from Pep, reduction of perfection obsession, and less weird choices for his squad in important matches, I think Manchester City can win the final match. They dominated the Premier League and can bring it to the final match. Nevertheless, football is not predictable and it is a beauty of it. Chelsea have their chance to win, even it is small, but they can.

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Quote from: mv1986 on May 16, 2021, 05:19:56 PM

Quote from: Coyster on May 16, 2021, 10:59:08 AM

Quote from: kassex on May 16, 2021, 10:02:16 AM

Tuchel lost one final against PSG. Recently lost another one against Chelsea and this time to Leicester. I think this one will also lose. Especially the opponent of Manchester City. The team is stronger than Leicester and stronger than Bayern. And very eager to win the Champions League.

The both teams are eager to win the CL alike, not just City, Chelsea have won it before, just once though, but I'm pretty sure they'll be eager to make it two, Pep has won it twice, but that's a long time ago, Tuchel has never won it, but went as far as the final last season, everyone involved in the final needs this trophy, for pride, bragging right, reputation, to assert dominance etc.

City have dominated English football in the past decade, it's just the CL that has eluded them thus far, quite a lot of people believe that's the reason Pep was signed, he now has the opportunity to beat his chest as the only manager in City's history to have won every major trophy for them, it's going to be an enthralling final on the 29th, but I'm of the opinion that Pep will outwit Tuchel in the end.

This is a clash of the giants in terms of their history regarding finals and achievements and failures. Guardiola wants to get rid of the saying that he can only win with Messi, Tuchel wants to make it for the first time but Chelsea is losing steam just now. I would call that bad timing but a final is still a final. For him every game from now on will be a final and he can't even rotate within the team that much or he risks to lose the routine that has been built up within his team.

Hmm I won't call neither of the teams having a giant history but most likely a good recent history but so far City did not won a single international trophy so maybe it's time for that 2012 final when Chelsea had pure luck and a Drogba in monster mood to rotate around City and take the win and the tittle. Also Guardiola really lost ages from his life trying to win the UCL again with both Bayern and now with City so maybe it's time for him as Tuchel proved that he is a future coach that probably will win his title at some point , maybe even now but like I said the odds are with City and Pep.

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Quote from: Coyster on May 16, 2021, 10:59:08 AM

Quote from: kassex on May 16, 2021, 10:02:16 AM

Tuchel lost one final against PSG. Recently lost another one against Chelsea and this time to Leicester. I think this one will also lose. Especially the opponent of Manchester City. The team is stronger than Leicester and stronger than Bayern. And very eager to win the Champions League.

The both teams are eager to win the CL alike, not just City, Chelsea have won it before, just once though, but I'm pretty sure they'll be eager to make it two, Pep has won it twice, but that's a long time ago, Tuchel has never won it, but went as far as the final last season, everyone involved in the final needs this trophy, for pride, bragging right, reputation, to assert dominance etc.

City have dominated English football in the past decade, it's just the CL that has eluded them thus far, quite a lot of people believe that's the reason Pep was signed, he now has the opportunity to beat his chest as the only manager in City's history to have won every major trophy for them, it's going to be an enthralling final on the 29th, but I'm of the opinion that Pep will outwit Tuchel in the end.

This is a clash of the giants in terms of their history regarding finals and achievements and failures. Guardiola wants to get rid of the saying that he can only win with Messi, Tuchel wants to make it for the first time but Chelsea is losing steam just now. I would call that bad timing but a final is still a final. For him every game from now on will be a final and he can't even rotate within the team that much or he risks to lose the routine that has been built up within his team.

Topic: UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread - page 724. (Read 129794 times)