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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 33061. (Read 26623541 times)

sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 250
offtopic:
ASICMiner- Letting the cat out of the bag.

Recent analysis has led me to some interesting conclusions. I would like to present them to the community for discussion. Feel free to shoot holes in it as you desire.

In the early 1990's, Microsoft made a huge investment in their direct competitor, Apple. Apple was failing, and common wisdom dictated that this was done to keep from getting impaled by anti-trust lawsuits. I would suggest that it was nothing of the sort. I believe they were just doing it to grow the market, so that the value of their share would increase. Witness AM. AM has demonstrated a capability to completely dominate the entire global hash if they so desired. I don't think this is conjecture, but rather a demonstrable fact. But unlike Microsoft, they had to deal with a very important restraint: they could not ever under and circumstances breach 50% of market share. This placed a practical limit on their growth. They could never grow to more than 50% of the current hash. So what is the obvious solution? Increase the hash that they do not control, and the easiest way to do that is to supply their competitor (Joe and Jane miner) with devices that could hash. AM, in order to grow, increased the hash of their competition by selling them hardware that they could have easily put into their own farm. AM effectively put themselves into the catbird seat by not only profiting from their own farm, but from hardware sales as well. The tertiary profit came from increased hashrate allowing them to expand even further. They raised the value of the cap.

I have no doubt that many have realized this strategy already, in fact, there have been several posts that have alluded it to it. What I think most have missed however is much more complicated.

As specialized hardware is required to make any sort of profit, the actual number of miners has been decreasing. The costs of obtaining the latest hardware continue to increase leading to only one conclusion: That eventually no individual will be able to own hardware capable of hashing a profit. We will eventually reach a point where there exist only a handful of companies with the resources to purchase and operate the hardware required... and instead of owning hardware, we will all own shares in farms. Just as the wildcat oil-drillers gave way to Standard Oil. But Friedcat has a trick up his sleeve, there will be no Standard Oil. Friedcat appears to have embarked on a strategy that pays attention to history. He knows the result of a monopoly, and knows it is poison to bitcoins. He welcomes the competition. he encourages it, and above all else, he profits from it. He knows he needs it. So he ensures it exists.

Where will this lead? The obvious conclusion is a system wherein Friedcat runs the bitcoin mining ecosystem in the same manner the federal Reserve manages dollars. A total domination on almost every level. Avalon kicking up the hash? Excellent, we can just increase to match, and sell even more block erupters to everyone who is trying to keep up. More profit for shareholders. BFL actually delivering? Pop the cork, we can now bring another 10 Terrahash online and sell even more USB miners! More profit for shareholders!

And so, we end up with AM ensuring no entity ever gets 51%, protecting the bitcoin system, and rewarding shareholders with an almost endless stream of dividends. It almost looks like it is all tied up with a pretty bow. When you read it like this, it is hard to wonder if Friedcat and Satoshi might be in some way... related.

Oh, well, off to bed. It was a good bedtime story if nothing else. Please deposit the tinfoil hats in the bin as you leave.

legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
HODL OR DIE

Very very cool. I'd like to see how this plays out. Many have said it will be in the 2nd and 3rd world nations where BTC gets traction first.

That makes sense because that is where the weakest fiat is issued.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 501

doesn't quite fit the subject, but however i have to throw in that article
as it's a very interesting read about Hawala - an old method for trading money (that roots back to the eighth century)

http://mkshft.org/2013/07/thin-wire

legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile

Very very cool. I'd like to see how this plays out. Many have said it will be in the 2nd and 3rd world nations where BTC gets traction first.
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile
I don't see a trend reversal, not even short term. Only the most fine-grained of the indicators I look at saw a swing in the other direction, everything else indicates we're going down further, or are at least not about to go up rapidly, within the next 24h.

I am however mildly nervous because my gut feeling tells me that recent news (Bitcoin ETF, mtgox press release re: wire transfers) are comparably positive, and we've reached a price level that, say, 4 weeks ago would have had people salivating. In other words, I don't trust this downtrend.

The ETF may or may not happen. They filed the paperwork. It will be months before we know. It could help add exposure to BTC though and that is great. In and of itself it is not much.

The MtGox release is NOT good news. They are essentially saying "We almost got our problem resolved. Things will still be slow for a while until we catch up." It is not good news to just function as expected.
Good news will be in a few weeks when they have the new trade engine. But LTC is being released around then (perhaps) so we'll see the effect.

Not to be a downer but just calling it like it is.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
I don't see a trend reversal, not even short term. Only the most fine-grained of the indicators I look at saw a swing in the other direction, everything else indicates we're going down further, or are at least not about to go up rapidly, within the next 24h.

I am however mildly nervous because my gut feeling tells me that recent news (Bitcoin ETF, mtgox press release re: wire transfers) are comparably positive, and we've reached a price level that, say, 4 weeks ago would have had people salivating. In other words, I don't trust this downtrend.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
ofcourse price will fall.

sold at 72.

bought back at 80..

makes sense.. Smiley

next time i'll just use the ema's crossing on daily charts lol i'd be fucking rich if i only did that..

I haven't bought back yet. On the fence so to speak
sr. member
Activity: 411
Merit: 250
ofcourse price will fall.

sold at 72.

bought back at 80..

makes sense.. Smiley

next time i'll just use the ema's crossing on daily charts lol i'd be fucking rich if i only did that..
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Was more fun when the price was falling.
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile

No no no, contain your emotions a bit here and look at the bigger picture. I may be wrong but this looks very much like a bounce (maybe to 82).


Well predicted Smiley

Me, I pulled my sell just above that. This is after all exactly the drop I've been expecting since $130.

I'm loathe to try to trade the next one though, unless it's clear it's an avalanche.

I am hoping my other prediction a few pages back comes true. This one will be more meaningfull:
Quote
A move up to 86 or so and then a bit of selling to bring things back down is possible. That will then create a nice spinning top candle. Some indecision for a day or two and then continue with the down trend.

It is looking like it so far, was off by $1 on the move up.

I'm with you, I am really hesitant to trade this. Had I went with my last two "calls" on the bounces I would have made $5-$7 on each move, if I followed it exactly. Anyway, won't matter much once we are lower.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Is there som site there people can vote for what thay think will happen with bitcoin up or down ?

today's your lucky day, there are actually several sites like that:

http://mtgox.com/

http://bitstamp.net/

need more?

(you set yourself up for this one :D)
full member
Activity: 462
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A Top Web 3 Gaming Layer2 Provider
this trading between 79 and 80 USD is pretty boring ... Undecided
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Is there som site there people can vote for what thay think will happen with bitcoin up or down ?

any vote on future price that is not backed up by money is worth exactly that - nothing
member
Activity: 93
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Is there som site there people can vote for what thay think will happen with bitcoin up or down ?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
My point is that I don't get what is the "killer similarity" between BTC and Rhodium. Yes, Bitcoin is a "digital commodity". But its "digital" form is not only an adjective, is a very important characteristic that makes Bitcoin different from any physical commodity. It can be easily transfered, transported, hided, divided, etc. Stores of value are needed, they provide an utility, and Bitcoin is a huge improvement in utility over physical stores of value because of its convenience and "digital" characteristics. Plus, you have the blockchain, which is a fascinating, multi-use beast by itself. Then, you have colored coins applications. The possibilities Bitcoins open go well beyond its similarity with physical commodities. I really think that saying that in the long term Bitcoin will probably behave like Rhodium is baseless.

My point is it attracts the same kind of crowds, fringe types and salesmen personalities. I view Bruce Wagner, Max Kaiser or Bitcoin Jesus not different than those types who sell "Rare Rhodium Proofs" on a TV-shopping channel. It's the same kind of Gold-Digger Mentality, hordes of people thinking they are on to the next big thing.
I am probably more overall bearish than you when it comes to fundamental use of Bitcoin, but I don't think it's certain this Bubble will collapse the way it should. For all I care we could shoot back up to 200+ within a month or so.
Only within a certain short timespan of about a few days to a weeks I think Bitcoin can be predicted with enough accuracy to trade it successfully. And even then it can only be predicted in certain cases.
hero member
Activity: 1302
Merit: 502
Sideways trading on low volume. Tonight, I'd expect red fireworks celebrating USA dollars of independence. Roll Eyes

Good, save the green ones for next week.
legendary
Activity: 1428
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Sideways trading on low volume. Tonight, I'd expect red fireworks celebrating USA dollars of independence. Roll Eyes


legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
People, you don't get it. Rampion said we need to hit 50 first before we go up. So you can easily sell 100% now like he obviously also did. Unless he's full of shit ofcourse.

You and him both.
Perhaps two sides of the same coin.

I'm no perm-bear, saying the bubble needs to deflate (to $50 or whatever the bottom will be, I have no crystal ball) is just stating the obvious.

If you think that I'm full of shit for believing we had a bubble which is now deflating, then maybe you are in denial of facts, but honestly it didn't seem so by your posts.

In my opinion you can't say with certainty for extended periods.
I made this thread once to state what I think about it: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-is-not-digital-gold-it-is-digital-rhodium-189308

Agreed, impossible say with certainty for extended periods. I just say that before a positive cycle is resumed the price needs to fully deflate and then enter in a sustainable uptrend. Obviously nobody can predict a 100% certain timeframe, only guesstimate.

But anyhow I don't understand your post about Rhodium, your point is that BTC will behave as Rhodium long term? I think that's BS. I don't deny that the charts look similar, with their two bubbles (good catch BTW), but they are fundamentally different assets. You say they have three properties in common:

Quote
It is very rare, (much) rarer than Gold
It is somewhat of a fringe investment
It is subject to hypes

1) scarcity is relative in Bitcoin, as each BTC can be easily and very conveniently divided in 100.000.000 sub-units, ready to be immediately transferred with a clic. I don't see how its scarcity is comparable to Gold or Rhodium, apart from a fundamental and general aspect: supply is limited inflation is more or less predictable.

2) yes, but for different reasons. Bitcoin is still an experiment in its initial stages.

3) all commodities are subject to hypes

My point is that I don't get what is the "killer similarity" between BTC and Rhodium. Yes, Bitcoin is a "digital commodity". But its "digital" form is not only an adjective, is a very important characteristic that makes Bitcoin different from any physical commodity. It can be easily transfered, transported, hided, divided, etc. Stores of value are needed, they provide an utility, and Bitcoin is a huge improvement in utility over physical stores of value because of its convenience and "digital" characteristics. Plus, you have the blockchain, which is a fascinating, multi-use beast by itself. Then, you have colored coins applications. The possibilities Bitcoins open go well beyond its similarity with physical commodities. I really think that saying that in the long term Bitcoin will probably behave like Rhodium is baseless.
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