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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 33456. (Read 26496493 times)

legendary
Activity: 2097
Merit: 1070
A friend in China mentioned today there's growing curiosity about BTC there after it was featured this weekend on CCTV.  It's made it to the daily hot topic on sina weibo.  Anyone want to speculate on whether/when this might be reflected in the exchanges?

Sure : It will make no difference whatsoever.

That is about as extreme as saying it will cause the price to explode to $10,000. I just don't see how advertising to millions or potentially billions of people will have no effect???

It had pretty much no difference the first time hit hit the TV in China.

There was a little price action based on the hype with money already on the exchanges but that soon died out.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Imagine, Bitstamp, Gox and all the exchanges as Gateways.  Then add Paypal, Bank of america, Citi Bank and any bank worldwide you can think of.  In time, you can use ANY of them as your gateway to move fiat and BTC.  You can also choose to NOT extend trust to any of them you choose.  This gives the power back to the people.  

I could theoretically buy BTC via paypal and send it to Gox.  Then I could sell that BTC at Gox and send Euros to some bank in the UK.  I can choose how and who I trust and when and where I utilize the gateways.  Now this is a simplified version as Ripple is in between these transfers but the cost from ripple is .00001 or something like that. It's like nothing.  This is what XRP's are for.  To pay transaction fees.  The average user wont need thousands of XRP.  The biggest fees are going to come from the gateways, which they already charge too much, IMO.

OK, so if I understand correctly, outside of regulatory issues, IYO the unique selling proposition of Ripple is that is makes it easier to move/exchange funds (BTC and fiat) at lower costs. That leads me to the following observations / questions:

1) Your example of buying BTC via Paypal presupposes that PayPal would allow services that deal in BTC to hold accounts. Similarly, Bank of America, Chase, etc. would each have to sign on to Ripple in order to be a trusted gateway. If this is necessary, isn't it just as likely that Coinbase or some other BTC based service will convince PayPal or a bank to integrate into its system?

2) Assuming Coinbase or another startup can connect with existing financial companies in this way, what advantage does Ripple have? The fees to move money on Ripple may be very low, but legacy financial companies are still going to want their fees whether money moves from their infrastructure to Ripple or Coinbase.

3) Perhaps you think that Ripple has value outside of the BTC ecosystem, for instance, that it could actually disrupt fiat payments and currency exchange by moving it outside of the banking system entirely. As this is exactly what Bitcoin seeks to do, Ripple will face the same problems, namely, getting money into and out of the banking system easily, without their buy in. I think you'd agree that banks aren't going to be disrupted without a fight, in which case, Bitcoin has network and brand advantages over Ripple.

4) You mention that the Bitcoin community has failed to address flaws and regulatory pressures, and that this gives Ripple an advantage. Certainly you must admit that Bitcoin is actively undergoing development and is at least further along in the process than Ripple. At this point, can you even judge Ripple's flaws? Aren't you just relying on the promises of OpenCoin?

As for regulatory issues, whatever some Bitcoin users believe, the main devs have indicated that avoiding regulation isn't really a concern for them. Not to mention, when has a new technology ever NOT gone through a period of uncertainty with regard to regulation? In the U.S. we are still debating whether interstate online sales should be subject to sales tax, and it has been decades.

You may well be right that Ripple addresses some of Bitcoin's problems, but after thinking it through, it seems to me that you aren't comparing Ripple to Bitcoin so much as comparing Ripple to the COMPANIES currently providing service in the Bitcoin ecosystem. I'm not convinced that Ripple has any advantage over either new, well financed, BTC related companies or existing BTC companies that get their act together.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Whoa, there are a lot of cats in this wall.
A friend in China mentioned today there's growing curiosity about BTC there after it was featured this weekend on CCTV.  It's made it to the daily hot topic on sina weibo.  Anyone want to speculate on whether/when this might be reflected in the exchanges?

We've discussed this quite a bit since the first CCTV news.  Word is that the latest news was neutral to somewhat positive. I think we are going to see adoption in China, both as a speculative investment but also because of the world economic situation. Something we have to consider also, is that people may start to get behind it as a big FU to the USD. That is probably why the government has been pretty open to it.

I imagine that over the next 6 months to a year that China will be the biggest holders of BTC. Just on population alone, it only takes a few thousand wealthy people to make that happen. Just a feeling of a guess.

As the price of BTC goes up, we either need to go to another term e.g. mBTC or do a split (if that is possible). With the latter no one loses holding power as with creating new shares. I just don't see people being as game to buy when the price is high. But, if it truly starts to grow and is seen as valuable, then mBTC will be the new term.

IAS

I agree.  It's psychological as much as anything.  When we start using mBTC as the standard, I would be surprised if the price didn't increase almost immediately.

If you're a nobody investor without much money, would you feel more comfortable bragging to your friends that that you bought into the BTC market for .1BTC or would you rather say I bought 10,000 mBTC?

legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile
A friend in China mentioned today there's growing curiosity about BTC there after it was featured this weekend on CCTV.  It's made it to the daily hot topic on sina weibo.  Anyone want to speculate on whether/when this might be reflected in the exchanges?

Sure : It will make no difference whatsoever.

That is about as extreme as saying it will cause the price to explode to $10,000. I just don't see how advertising to millions or potentially billions of people will have no effect???
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile
A friend in China mentioned today there's growing curiosity about BTC there after it was featured this weekend on CCTV.  It's made it to the daily hot topic on sina weibo.  Anyone want to speculate on whether/when this might be reflected in the exchanges?

We've discussed this quite a bit since the first CCTV news.  Word is that the latest news was neutral to somewhat positive. I think we are going to see adoption in China, both as a speculative investment but also because of the world economic situation. Something we have to consider also, is that people may start to get behind it as a big FU to the USD. That is probably why the government has been pretty open to it.

I imagine that over the next 6 months to a year that China will be the biggest holders of BTC. Just on population alone, it only takes a few thousand wealthy people to make that happen. Just a feeling of a guess.

As the price of BTC goes up, we either need to go to another term e.g. mBTC or do a split (if that is possible). With the latter no one loses holding power as with creating new shares. I just don't see people being as game to buy when the price is high. But, if it truly starts to grow and is seen as valuable, then mBTC will be the new term.

IAS
legendary
Activity: 2097
Merit: 1070
A friend in China mentioned today there's growing curiosity about BTC there after it was featured this weekend on CCTV.  It's made it to the daily hot topic on sina weibo.  Anyone want to speculate on whether/when this might be reflected in the exchanges?

Sure : It will make no difference whatsoever.
newbie
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
A friend in China mentioned today there's growing curiosity about BTC there after it was featured this weekend on CCTV.  It's made it to the daily hot topic on sina weibo.  Anyone want to speculate on whether/when this might be reflected in the exchanges?
newbie
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner


 Shocked

wat a day for the silver market
legendary
Activity: 2097
Merit: 1070
Today's volume (or lack thereof) surprising or concerning to any of you?

No, not at all.
legendary
Activity: 1552
Merit: 1047
What I mean when I use that analogy is that Napster started the music download revolution but in the end was killed and it was iTunes that came in and did it the right way.

The foundation of Bitcoin is solid but it's full of flaws the Bitcoin community refuses to address.  Add to that, the continued refusal (As if it would even be possible to avoid) to submit to regulations.  This will kill bitcoin on a mass adoption scale faster than anything.  

Ripple, like iTunes is prepared to play nice and work within the confines of the law.  Not to mention, doing all the things Bitcoin could have done, but didn't.
Regulation is a problem mkay? Bitcoin was made to solve this problem. You want regulation? Just use the banks, use paypal, use the now dead e-gold.

How you can talk about regulations as something necessary to bring bitcoin mainstream is beyond me. That invalidates the whole point of bitcoin in the first place and it makes me wonder what you are doing here.

Why use Paypal when I can have incredibly low transaction fees?  Makes no sense.  It might invalidate YOUR view of Bitcoin but that's not what it's going to be moving forward.
Because bitcoin is very unstable and you may very well lose a lot more than paypal fees when buying and selling using bitcoin. So it makes perfect sense.

We'll regulate it or we'll kill it.  Meaning blackball it from any mainstream existence and reduce it to a black market only currency that legitamate business wont touch with a 10 foot pole.
Like we regulated e-gold? Yeah, that worked out real nice. Anyhow, that's why I love bitcoin, it can't be regulated, no matter how much you would love it, it just won't happen.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
This account was recently hacked
When i look at this topic today:


+1

If only there was some buying and selling to speculate about....
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1819
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
supernode
When i look at this topic today:

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Today's volume (or lack thereof) surprising or concerning to any of you?

Surprising? No.

Concerning? A little.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 500
https://youengine.io/
You want to understand Ripple, this guy know his stuff.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ripple-explained-for-bitcoiners-211068
Thank you, but no further reading needed. As mentiond above the TradeFortress thread explains better than anything else I have seen so far. Especially how web3er now ended up holding 10.15 worthless TF-฿ while someone else at the other end of the world could convert 10.15 worthless TF-฿ into Bitstamp-฿.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Today's volume (or lack thereof) surprising or concerning to any of you?
member
Activity: 79
Merit: 10

What are you talking about? You do not exchange cryptocurrency in Ripple. You exchange a) XRP's or b) other cryptocurrencies IOU's


The only thing you exchange on Mt Gox is IOUs for USD and BTC. You have to trust that Mt Gox will let you withdraw your balance at the end of day. (The law might help you if Mt Gox defaults, but a gateway can attach legal meaning to its Ripple IOUs as well.) Ripple isn't replacing Bitcoin, and you shouldn't treat gateway IOUs as any more secure than fiat or bitcoin on an exchange. However, Ripple does potentially provide a very interesting replacement for the exchange component of the Bitcoin world.

As for whether XRP will compete with Bitcoin: I agree with the skeptics in this thread that the degree of control OpenCoin has is a good reason to shy away from using XRP as a currency and a store of value. Until such a point where OpenCoin's control has become negligible, XRP won't be as "free" a currency as bitcoin, and I think this is a compelling reason to not use it. This isn't really a criticism of Ripple, because using XRP as a currency isn't the point of Ripple. I have about 200 XRP total, and I'm going to sell all the ones I get in the giveaway immediately. Using or speculating in XRP is fine if you want to do it, but I don't. This doesn't make me less excited about Ripple.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 500
https://youengine.io/
This is what TradeFortress is doing - people gave him "trusted" status, so he can virtually create money (455 BTC up to date) - because inside Ripple you just trade IOU's - the only thing is not a IOU are Ripples.

This thread from TradeFortress finally made me understand Ripple, especially the last part of the thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2209470 where web3er got his 10.15 Bitstamp-BTC exchanged for worthless TradeFortress-BTC because he basically told the Ripple-System that for him any Fortress-BTC are equally good as Bitstamp-BTC. And so the system automatically took his Bitstamp and gave him TradeFortress in exchange when the system needed some Bitstamp instead of TradeFortress on someone else's behalf. Highly educational thread! Recommended to read. This made me finally understand how Ripple works.
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