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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 33461. (Read 26496413 times)

hero member
Activity: 625
Merit: 501
x
Don't be silly.  Faith in ~(A & ~A) is just that:  Faith.  You choose to have faith in universal noncontradiction, others choose God.  Why quibble?  And sure, God could create a rock he couldn't lift & then (lift & ~lift) it at the same time.  Your inability to imagine such a thing speaks more about your imagination than the thing's impossibility.

This is very true. I like arguing with religious people who can make this argument as it proves I'm not conversing with an idiot, just someone with a different ground-premise than me about how the world works. Everyone has universal premisses in their mind and classical logic is mine. Nothing can ever conclusively be proven, we can just show we are unable to create a counter example.

However, I already find it quite strong to be able to conclude that to be able to believe in any deity you absolutely have to reject classical logic. (However note in my previous post I was still unable to reject omnipotence completely, I could just do it in this universe, even with the classical logic premise).

edit:  If you want to start a new topic somewhere...  Feels like i'm spamming.

Haha, spamming in 507 page topic in 1 month Cheesy

Edit:

OT: I find it quite unlikely god is able influence the price, either up or down  Grin

When ChartBuddy starts getting in on the god conversation, that's when I'll get concerned.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Don't be silly.  Faith in ~(A & ~A) is just that:  Faith.  You choose to have faith in universal noncontradiction, others choose God.  Why quibble?  And sure, God could create a rock he couldn't lift & then (lift & ~lift) it at the same time.  Your inability to imagine such a thing speaks more about your imagination than the thing's impossibility.

This is very true. I like arguing with religious people who can make this argument as it proves I'm not conversing with an idiot, just someone with a different ground-premise than me about how the world works. Everyone has universal premisses in their mind and classical logic is mine. Nothing can ever conclusively be proven, we can just show we are unable to create a counter example.

However, I already find it quite strong to be able to conclude that to be able to believe in any deity you absolutely have to reject classical logic. (However note in my previous post I was still unable to reject omnipotence completely, I could just do it in this universe, even with the classical logic premise).

edit:  If you want to start a new topic somewhere...  Feels like i'm spamming.

Haha, spamming in 507 page topic in 1 month Cheesy

Edit:

OT: I find it quite unlikely god is able influence the price, either up or down  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
Guys do you mind taking the God stuff to another thread? 
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1001
I guess it is safe to say that none of us know. But in danger of missing a Black Swan go by I would rather sacrifice some future "profit" or holdings of BTC by trying to buy in later at lower prices, with just holding at what I see to be a great price - now. But I can say, it is wise to have capital available to buy more in later should that occur. But it sounds like you are trying to rationalize the greatest social experiment in the history of our civilization. Think about that.

Now, if it jumps up $100 or $200 in a day, your going to be there sitting in cash. Moral...

Don't try to time a Black Swan.

People should really try to comprehend this. The small value you are likely to gain by waiting (which is relatively probable) does not beat the enormous gain you lose by being out when the price suddenly spikes (even though this is a far less likely event to happen in the time-frame you are out of BTC). The opportunity cost of choosing fiat over BTC short term can be extremely high.

Exactly. If you get super lucky and call it right you might get another 20% or so, but if you call it wrong you are holding ZERO and buying in at much higher levels.
[snip]

In other words, you see nothing wrong with Pascal's Wager? Cheesy


I think you have to add another column...."Wrong God Exists" there to be more accurate. 

Isn't there an infinite chance that the god he could "believe in" is the wrong one?

In that case believing in no god is probably better than believing in the wrong one.



You should also add another column "right god exists but doesn't want you to believe in him" and another "wrong god exists but doesn't want you to believe in him" and so on and so forth. Pascal's wager has been discredited as an argument for the existence of god for quite a few decades now, just like pretty much every other argument for the existence of god. Also, it's hucksterish... "believe in god to hedge your bets", not a particularly moral position.

newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Pascal's wager is wrong because no God as defined in human religion can exist.
Sure he can.  Don't be goofy.  He's omnipotent.  He breaks logic for breakfast!  A=~A every day of the year.

Omnipotence implies logical contradiction and therefore cannot exist in this universe.  (Could god create a rock he himself cannot lift? Wink)

Don't be silly.  Faith in ~(A & ~A) is just that:  Faith.  You choose to have faith in universal noncontradiction, others choose God.  Why quibble?  And sure, God could create a rock he couldn't lift & then (lift & ~lift) it at the same time.  Your inability to imagine such a thing speaks more about your imagination than the thing's impossibility.

Quote
Ignoring that is is wrong because he uses infinite numbers while these should obviously be finite.
The infinite numbers are fine.  Eternal bliss & eternal damnation!
[/theology]

The value proposition of eternal bliss or eternal damnation is still finite Smiley

Wait was I on topic?  Wink

Learn to infinity Cheesy (infinity)*X=???

edit:  If you want to start a new topic somewhere...  Feels like i'm spamming.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Id quite happily be trading between mtgox\btc-e but there isnt a quick and easy way to move $ between the two... especially when your from the UK. Sad
unless someone wants to enlighten me??

I've made a couple of successful trades via: Sell BTC on Ripple -> Fiat to BitStamp -> Buy BTC at Bitstamp.  Rinse and repeat.  Fiat transfer was super quick too.

BUT..there is almost no liquidity in Ripple, so selling at near MtGox prices is difficult and took most of the day just to pull off 2 trades that were worth the effort.  The good news is I really only paid a fee at Bitstamp so the potential is there and I could sell a bit lower but, just not enough trades happening from Ripple to really take advantage yet.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Pascal's wager is wrong because no God as defined in human religion can exist.
Sure he can.  Don't be goofy.  He's omnipotent.  He breaks logic for breakfast!  A=~A every day of the year.

Omnipotence implies logical contradiction and therefore cannot exist in this universe.  (Could god create a rock he himself cannot lift? Wink)

Quote
Ignoring that is is wrong because he uses infinite numbers while these should obviously be finite.
The infinite numbers are fine.  Eternal bliss & eternal damnation!
[/theology]

The value proposition of eternal bliss or eternal damnation is still finite Smiley

Wait was I on topic?  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1819
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Pascal's wager is wrong because no God as defined in human religion can exist.
Sure he can.  Don't be goofy.  He's omnipotent.  He breaks logic for breakfast!  A=~A every day of the year.
Quote
Ignoring that is is wrong because he uses infinite numbers while these should obviously be finite.
The infinite numbers are fine.  Eternal bliss & eternal damnation!
[/theology]
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 506
Volume at Gox is so small it is almost scary

everyone is busy at the conference Smiley

If I may extrapolate on that (with a chart of course)...



...the weekly step-down in volume would be explained by those having had to travel furthest leaving their trading desks on the 2nd week of April to start their trek to the conference, followed by those next-furthest away in the 3rd week of April and so on so that last week's volume drop-off can be explained by the Californians departing for San Jose Smiley  Let's see what happens as everyone returns home Wink

On a more serious note I'm fascinated looking at the prices on the same weekly chart, especially the EMA (3)

Look how insignificant by now April's  'crash' was;
Look at the massive contrast between the huge volume drop-off and the virtually unmoving (but slightly upward) price.

Meanwhile the transaction volume (in USD) appears only just to have dropped out of the $20.000.000 - $60,000,000 channel.



Given that more than a small part of the transaction volume must be currency trading transactions and that trading transactions have almost died off entirely I'm surprised we are only now seeing the overall transaction volume drop.  Does this mean transactions other than currency trading are going up?

I wonder if the trading volume were to drop off further or stablise at today's levels would the price fall to any significant degree?  I'm suspecting, based on the failure of low volumes to trigger sell-offs that the vast proportion of bitcoins is in strong hands by now.  Whether or not the price is being manipulated I believe the nervous have had plenty of opportunity to close their positions by now and we have also seen buyers come pouring in every time there is a dip.

So if I were to make a prediction it would be that the longer we hang around this price mark the more likely we are to continue to go mainly sideways.  When the market is too calm for day-traders to make anything we get an idea of what currency-trading is required to sustain (non-currency-trading) transaction volumes.  And if that's steady or rising there should be enough liquidity to satisfy their requirements without shifting the price very far either way.

In the meantime if we get another wave of speculators or of long-term savers (hoarders) or if existing speculators/hoarders decide to increase their bitcoin holding then up we go again.

Call me an eternal optimist but I'm failing to see credible downward pressures Smiley
 



legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1026
Volume at Gox is so small it is almost scary

everyone is busy at the conference Smiley

Isn't it over?

Ref low volume on holidays and weekends: does that concept apply for Bitcoin at all? Banking holiday in Japan is a valid reason, but I somehow doubt, a majority of BTC is traded by wallstreet guys who sit in an office at daytime. Would be great, if anyone has any data on that. A contra argument could be (not saying it is): BTC is mostly privately owned, thus people trade in their freetime.



Bid sum is still very bullish and even rising a bit in the last hours. If a breakout happens, it could be soon.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
ITT: Missing the point because mad at the mention of God and channeling the spirit of r/atheism.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
I guess it is safe to say that none of us know. But in danger of missing a Black Swan go by I would rather sacrifice some future "profit" or holdings of BTC by trying to buy in later at lower prices, with just holding at what I see to be a great price - now. But I can say, it is wise to have capital available to buy more in later should that occur. But it sounds like you are trying to rationalize the greatest social experiment in the history of our civilization. Think about that.

Now, if it jumps up $100 or $200 in a day, your going to be there sitting in cash. Moral...

Don't try to time a Black Swan.

People should really try to comprehend this. The small value you are likely to gain by waiting (which is relatively probable) does not beat the enormous gain you lose by being out when the price suddenly spikes (even though this is a far less likely event to happen in the time-frame you are out of BTC). The opportunity cost of choosing fiat over BTC short term can be extremely high.

Exactly. If you get super lucky and call it right you might get another 20% or so, but if you call it wrong you are holding ZERO and buying in at much higher levels.
[snip]

In other words, you see nothing wrong with Pascal's Wager?http://s20.postimg.org/tznsaqqt9/Capture.jpg Cheesy


I think you have to add another column...."Wrong God Exists" there to be more accurate. 


You got it!  It's ALT COIN! Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Pascal's wager is wrong because no God as defined in human religion can exist.

Ignoring that is is wrong because he uses infinite numbers while these should obviously be finite.
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile
$120 isn't cheap? 11 million shares and a global economy that we are only hoping to get a small fraction of a percentage of ? $120 is VERY cheap when you factor in the market, incoming VC money, low float, affect on currency/monetary policy, etc. We are talking about a revolutionary game changing technology. Can you come up with something better?  Wink

True, compared to world economy $120 is still cheap. But world domination takes time. Historical growth rate of bitcoin is somewhere around a tenfolding every 1-2 years. That just happened, so chances are low it will happen again anytime soon. A black swan event can ofcourse always occur, a single ambitious billionaire jumping into bitcoin can do the trick, so always be exposed to bitcoin with a decent percentage of your capital.

That being said, chances are higher for it to correct after a bubble than for it to launch into a new one shortly thereafter. So a good portion of your bitcoin capital on the sidelines is rational in my opinion.




I guess it is safe to say that none of us know. But in danger of missing a Black Swan go by I would rather sacrifice some future "profit" or holdings of BTC by trying to buy in later at lower prices, with just holding at what I see to be a great price - now. But I can say, it is wise to have capital available to buy more in later should that occur. But it sounds like you are trying to rationalize the greatest social experiment in the history of our civilization. Think about that.

Now, if it jumps up $100 or $200 in a day, your going to be there sitting in cash. Moral...

Don't try to time a Black Swan.

Black Swan is only a Black Swan in hindsight.  'Til then, it's a Red Herring or an Ugly Duckling Cheesy

That is not true about only a Black Swan in hindsight, it is merely hard to predict. So, for the masses it is near impossible to predict. A few (including me) called the internet as a Black Swan. Now I'm saying cryptocurrencies (maybe BTC) are the next big Black Swan. And they are Anti-fragile to boot. Very very powerful (see Sig).  Grin  Shocked
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1819
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
I guess it is safe to say that none of us know. But in danger of missing a Black Swan go by I would rather sacrifice some future "profit" or holdings of BTC by trying to buy in later at lower prices, with just holding at what I see to be a great price - now. But I can say, it is wise to have capital available to buy more in later should that occur. But it sounds like you are trying to rationalize the greatest social experiment in the history of our civilization. Think about that.

Now, if it jumps up $100 or $200 in a day, your going to be there sitting in cash. Moral...

Don't try to time a Black Swan.

People should really try to comprehend this. The small value you are likely to gain by waiting (which is relatively probable) does not beat the enormous gain you lose by being out when the price suddenly spikes (even though this is a far less likely event to happen in the time-frame you are out of BTC). The opportunity cost of choosing fiat over BTC short term can be extremely high.

Exactly. If you get super lucky and call it right you might get another 20% or so, but if you call it wrong you are holding ZERO and buying in at much higher levels.
[snip]

In other words, you see nothing wrong with Pascal's Wager? Cheesy


I think you have to add another column...."Wrong God Exists" there to be more accurate. 

Isn't there an infinite chance that the god he could "believe in" is the wrong one?

In that case believing in no god is probably better than believing in the wrong one.

newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
I guess it is safe to say that none of us know. But in danger of missing a Black Swan go by I would rather sacrifice some future "profit" or holdings of BTC by trying to buy in later at lower prices, with just holding at what I see to be a great price - now. But I can say, it is wise to have capital available to buy more in later should that occur. But it sounds like you are trying to rationalize the greatest social experiment in the history of our civilization. Think about that.

Now, if it jumps up $100 or $200 in a day, your going to be there sitting in cash. Moral...

Don't try to time a Black Swan.

People should really try to comprehend this. The small value you are likely to gain by waiting (which is relatively probable) does not beat the enormous gain you lose by being out when the price suddenly spikes (even though this is a far less likely event to happen in the time-frame you are out of BTC). The opportunity cost of choosing fiat over BTC short term can be extremely high.

Exactly. If you get super lucky and call it right you might get another 20% or so, but if you call it wrong you are holding ZERO and buying in at much higher levels.
[snip]

In other words, you see nothing wrong with Pascal's Wager?http://s20.postimg.org/tznsaqqt9/Capture.jpg Cheesy
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
$120 isn't cheap? 11 million shares and a global economy that we are only hoping to get a small fraction of a percentage of ? $120 is VERY cheap when you factor in the market, incoming VC money, low float, affect on currency/monetary policy, etc. We are talking about a revolutionary game changing technology. Can you come up with something better?  Wink

True, compared to world economy $120 is still cheap. But world domination takes time. Historical growth rate of bitcoin is somewhere around a tenfolding every 1-2 years. That just happened, so chances are low it will happen again anytime soon. A black swan event can ofcourse always occur, a single ambitious billionaire jumping into bitcoin can do the trick, so always be exposed to bitcoin with a decent percentage of your capital.

That being said, chances are higher for it to correct after a bubble than for it to launch into a new one shortly thereafter. So a good portion of your bitcoin capital on the sidelines is rational in my opinion.




I guess it is safe to say that none of us know. But in danger of missing a Black Swan go by I would rather sacrifice some future "profit" or holdings of BTC by trying to buy in later at lower prices, with just holding at what I see to be a great price - now. But I can say, it is wise to have capital available to buy more in later should that occur. But it sounds like you are trying to rationalize the greatest social experiment in the history of our civilization. Think about that.

Now, if it jumps up $100 or $200 in a day, your going to be there sitting in cash. Moral...

Don't try to time a Black Swan.

Black Swan is only a Black Swan in hindsight.  'Til then, it's a Red Herring or an Ugly Duckling Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1819
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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