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Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 273. (Read 901518 times)

hero member
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Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe
December 22, 2015, 06:08:57 AM
Since man is a rational being, a creature of reason, it is obvious that GOD would want man to think. BADecker implies that thinking is a religion, but it is perfectly fair to ask BADecker "compared to what?" Another question to ask of him is "how can we know that you are not misleading us into a false religion? what is the fruit of such a belief? why should one choose a belief which is irrational and against reason, which denies man's basic virtue? is it balanced to equivocate opinion and reason?", etc.
Thinking is surely not a religion but the 6th point he mentioned might be.Atheism has become the new religion nowadays.

I think atheism is the consequence of nihilism.

That will go away once the Messiah will come.


Best regards.
No, it is not cause if people were that skeptical then there wouldn't be any religions fucking around in 21st century.
you cannot chose any path if you don't have one and make it your believe that it's right.
legendary
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December 22, 2015, 06:07:27 AM

Can we get a date for your messiahs arrival?  Maybe once he misses the deadline you can think about an alternative religion?

Are you an atheist?

Best regards.
legendary
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December 22, 2015, 06:04:06 AM
Since man is a rational being, a creature of reason, it is obvious that GOD would want man to think. BADecker implies that thinking is a religion, but it is perfectly fair to ask BADecker "compared to what?" Another question to ask of him is "how can we know that you are not misleading us into a false religion? what is the fruit of such a belief? why should one choose a belief which is irrational and against reason, which denies man's basic virtue? is it balanced to equivocate opinion and reason?", etc.
Thinking is surely not a religion but the 6th point he mentioned might be.Atheism has become the new religion nowadays.

I think atheism is the consequence of nihilism.

That will go away once the Messiah will come.


Best regards.

Can we get a date for your messiahs arrival?  Maybe once he misses the deadline you can think about an alternative religion?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1003
December 22, 2015, 05:56:10 AM
Since man is a rational being, a creature of reason, it is obvious that GOD would want man to think. BADecker implies that thinking is a religion, but it is perfectly fair to ask BADecker "compared to what?" Another question to ask of him is "how can we know that you are not misleading us into a false religion? what is the fruit of such a belief? why should one choose a belief which is irrational and against reason, which denies man's basic virtue? is it balanced to equivocate opinion and reason?", etc.
Thinking is surely not a religion but the 6th point he mentioned might be.Atheism has become the new religion nowadays.

I think atheism is the consequence of nihilism.

That will go away once the Messiah will come.


Best regards.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe
December 22, 2015, 05:52:29 AM
Since man is a rational being, a creature of reason, it is obvious that GOD would want man to think. BADecker implies that thinking is a religion, but it is perfectly fair to ask BADecker "compared to what?" Another question to ask of him is "how can we know that you are not misleading us into a false religion? what is the fruit of such a belief? why should one choose a belief which is irrational and against reason, which denies man's basic virtue? is it balanced to equivocate opinion and reason?", etc.
Thinking is surely not a religion but the 6th point he mentioned might be.Atheism has become the new religion nowadays.
full member
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Merit: 100
December 21, 2015, 11:35:11 PM
Since man is a rational being, a creature of reason, it is obvious that GOD would want man to think. BADecker implies that thinking is a religion, but it is perfectly fair to ask BADecker "compared to what?" Another question to ask of him is "how can we know that you are not misleading us into a false religion? what is the fruit of such a belief? why should one choose a belief which is irrational and against reason, which denies man's basic virtue? is it balanced to equivocate opinion and reason?", etc.
full member
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December 21, 2015, 11:33:01 PM
Most people are devoted to their life. They struggle to keep from dying, especially when they know death is near.

People who are voluntary martyrs are even more devoted to what they are doing. After all, they have to fight their natural survival instinct.

What's so hard about this. You need to think life over a little more.

Life is what it is; it passes into death and death passes into life in an endless cycle; rebirth is a key spiritual concept which was removed from the Bible by Pharisees; the evidence is not hard to find, but for you it may be hard to think about due to prior mental blocks and irrational devotion to authorities... It is hard to release one's fear of death because GOD is the author of goodness and life, HIS gifts are yours to enjoy in balance; similarly, it is all but impossible to release one's devotion to reason and thinking (unless you have been hypnotized, usually by an authority), and since Man is a creature of reason, and reason is another of GOD's gifts, then in any case one should be as wise as a serpent and never seek to die; GOD does not need any more martyrs and Jesus never meant to be a martyr either--he resisted his capture, but you would never suspect this if you only read 4 of the 28 written gospels, i.e. the four that were approved by the Church of Rome.
legendary
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December 21, 2015, 10:39:10 PM
This is what I and many others are trying to tell you. The only way that might come close to suggesting that you have no religion is if you live your life spontaneously all the time. But this would still be your religion.

Who exactly has tried to say that no one can avoid being religious in real life??
You figure it out. It is in the previous posts in this thread.



Solomon in the Old Testament, and Saint Paul in the New Testament, both suggested that we are to live a life of moderation. The only way to live moderation moderately is to splurge once in awhile.

What does moderation have to do with anything?
The moderation thing is a unit in itself.


If a homosexual moderates his desires, and yet "splurges" by occasionally having gay sex, does this make his life balanced and righteous? And why is it not "balanced" to be "devoted" to balance?? This definition only goes so far, and I will finally deconstruct it now:

Your life is your religion, even if you have no formal religion.

You are religious only if you are "devoted".
Most people are devoted to their life. They struggle to keep from dying, especially when they know death is near.

People who are voluntary martyrs are even more devoted to what they are doing. After all, they have to fight their natural survival instinct.

What's so hard about this. You need to think life over a little more.


If you never "believe something too much", then you don't have a religion, then you are called "rational" since you can intelligently evaluate new ideas when presented.

This can be accurate. Solomon says that if you are overly wicked, you will wind up destroying yourself. He also says that if you are overly righteous, you will wind up dying before your time. Ecclesiastes 7:16,17:
Quote
Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise—why destroy yourself?

Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool—why die before your time?

It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. The man who fears God will avoid all extremes.


Smiley
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December 21, 2015, 10:20:16 PM
This is what I and many others are trying to tell you. The only way that might come close to suggesting that you have no religion is if you live your life spontaneously all the time. But this would still be your religion.

Who exactly has tried to say that no one can avoid being religious in real life??

Solomon in the Old Testament, and Saint Paul in the New Testament, both suggested that we are to live a life of moderation. The only way to live moderation moderately is to splurge once in awhile.

What does moderation have to do with anything? If a homosexual moderates his desires, and yet "splurges" by occasionally having gay sex, does this make his life balanced and righteous? And why is it not "balanced" to be "devoted" to balance?? This definition only goes so far, and I will finally deconstruct it now:

Your life is your religion, even if you have no formal religion.

You are religious only if you are "devoted". If you never "believe something too much", then you don't have a religion, then you are called "rational" since you can intelligently evaluate new ideas when presented.

If you look in the section titled "What is Atheism" in Atheism and Secularity, Vol. 1, you will see that to be "agnostic" means nothing more than to be "rational". I doubt that you will be able to transform "lack of belief" or "uncertainty about a belief" into "devotional belief" with the use of reason. But then again, I do not EXPECT you to be rational since you are more religious than me! This reminds me of Einstein's conversation with the Indian poet Tagore wherein Einstein exclaimed "I am more religious than you!"; Einstein believed in an objective order which existed independently of the mind while admitting that he did not fully understand the meaning of this mysterious belief while Tagore believed in the "universal man" who beholds all things and for whom the unknown is totally nonexistent. To be devoted only means that you go beyond what is known and what is rational; that is the essence of religion. Mere "belief" does not suffice; if you question me about the weather, I will tell you the truth with devotion; that means that my religion is truth and that it is perfectly rational to respond in defense of the truth, even if it appears a bit silly.
legendary
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December 21, 2015, 09:57:09 PM
You forgot to read the little line that I said, pointing at the definition of the word religion. Read number 6 in the definition of religion quoted above. It says, "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice." Don't take my word for it. Go to the link and look up the definition for yourself.

The fact that you are constantly explaining and defending what you believe - it doesn't matter what it is - shows that you have religion. If you happen to include some of the other definition points in your religious beliefs, your religion is even stronger.

Smiley

I don't believe in anything or follow it devotedly (maybe bitcoin, but I don't believe anyone would believe bitcoin is a religion). I'm explaining my own views because you keep ascribing me views that I don't have.
The fact that you express your views whatever they are over and over shows that you have a religion in your views. Your views are the doctrine of your religion. In the definition of "religion," as I stated above, religion is "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Here you are, devotedly responding that you don't have any religion. But the way you are devotedly responding says that you do, according to the definition of religion.



Is it religion to prove you are innocent of some action or thought? Does every lawyer believe that the law is a god? Yet they "constantly explain and defend" what they mean.
According to the definition of "religion," if a lawyer "believes in and follows devotedly" some things regarding law, he has his own personal religion therein. And it is even deeper with a lawyer, because law often pertains to "a point or matter of ethics or conscience."



You seem to believe that any action one takes suggests religion? Are there any actions one can take that *do not* suggest religion? Or suggest *no religion*?

This is what I and many others are trying to tell you. The only way that might come close to suggesting that you have no religion is if you live your life spontaneously all the time. But this would still be your religion.

Solomon in the Old Testament, and Saint Paul in the New Testament, both suggested that we are to live a life of moderation. The only way to live moderation moderately is to splurge once in awhile.

Your life is your religion, even if you have no formal religion.

Smiley
donator
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Poor impulse control.
December 21, 2015, 08:52:35 PM
You forgot to read the little line that I said, pointing at the definition of the word religion. Read number 6 in the definition of religion quoted above. It says, "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice." Don't take my word for it. Go to the link and look up the definition for yourself.

The fact that you are constantly explaining and defending what you believe - it doesn't matter what it is - shows that you have religion. If you happen to include some of the other definition points in your religious beliefs, your religion is even stronger.

Smiley

I don't believe in anything or follow it devotedly (maybe bitcoin, but I don't believe anyone would believe bitcoin is a religion). I'm explaining my own views because you keep ascribing me views that I don't have.

Is it religion to prove you are innocent of some action or thought? Does every lawyer believe that the law is a god? Yet they "constantly explain and defend" what they mean.

You seem to believe that any action one takes suggests religion? Are there any actions one can take that *do not* suggest religion? Or suggest *no religion*?

full member
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December 21, 2015, 08:43:09 PM
And that is just getting started. If you wanted to apply QM to consciousness via String Theory, you would see that the whole universe has consciousness. The question is, does God have consciousness outside of the universe (remember, universe means everything)?

That question has an obvious answer:
There is only one ANYTHING, so there can be no thing outside of THAT. The Creation is a part of the Creator and the Creator a part of the Creation; Jesus stated that YOU are a Creator, so the point is to reach out and touch someone--like GOD. There can be an "invisible" or "virtual" universe "within" the universe, but certainly there cannot be a non-universe (e.g. without the universe or outside of it).

No need to use "String Theory"; Bohm's pilot wave theory suffices to explain the phenomena of Orch OR and quantum biology with the nonlocality explained by both future phase (retrocausal) and history phase (causal) waves; research is ongoing and it is certainly an exciting time to be a theorist (or even a layman)!

Have a look at Bohm's theory as summarized in the
Lazy Layman's Guide to Quantum Physics
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December 21, 2015, 08:15:42 PM
quantum mechanics is a specialized theory dealing in the state of extremely small particles at a given time. that view of mine is not something that will not change, not until a veritable theory linking the human mind to a quantifiable explanation is found. so far, i dont think this is something that will be achieved anytime soon, perhaps in the next decade, but its a mystery as far as im concerned.

"as far as you are concerned"?  Huh
You could concern yourself with studying the Orch OR theory and THEN you would understand that QM does apply to the mind; this study of quantum biology and consciousness is actually a mature field, I saw a paper criticizing the "Myth" of quantum consciousness published in 1992 and there has been massive progress since then; notably, researchers have observed evidence which has refuted some of the key criticisms leveled against Orch OR. You do not concern yourself with the theory of Orch OR, so your opinion is not valuable for our discussion. You do not state precisely why you dismiss this theory. In fact, recent observations of microtubules definitively show that this is a very sound theory; Hammeroff considers paramecium in his writings on Huffington Post, and that is a very powerful example of quantum biology. Photosynthesis is another example of quantum biology confirmed by research; I perceive that you do not know enough about this theory (Orch OR) to say whether or not it is "veritable". I am telling you that Orch OR is a part of a sound metaphysics of mind and is being validated by findings in quantum biology; why would you express that you doubt my claim unless you had a genuine objection to the evidence thereof? I have not heard any objections to Orch OR, so I perceive that you promote a fallacy which is called "argument from ignorance" and cloak it with "point of view" instead of reading it ALL so that you can judge in wisdom of knowledge. "As far as I am concerned", you simply do not wish to study the evidence before declaring your opinion and apparent prejudice. Kindly take a look at the Huffington Post articles from Hammeroff and the associated comments; does your point of view have value when compared to the evidence of quantum biology? Let's talk about it and then maybe you can change my point of view. To be clear, I do believe that the hard problem of consciousness is solvable with the tools and theories we presently have available; some theorists have even claimed a solution!

Could someone tell me: Why do atheists hate quantum biology?  Tongue
legendary
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December 21, 2015, 07:18:26 PM
this is just my point of view.
the human consciousness is not something that can be definitely quantified and explained, and as far as im concerned, quantum mechanics is a specialized theory dealing in the state of extremely small particles at a given time. that view of mine is not something that will not change, not until a veritable theory linking the human mind to a quantifiable explanation is found. so far, i dont think this is something that will be achieved anytime soon, perhaps in the next decade, but its a mystery as far as im concerned.

This view is also held by every good scientist that uses quantum mechanics. Why? Because as Brian Cox explains in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcfQkxwz4Oo, QM is simply complex probability. Probability explains nothing factually. It only offers the investigator some ideas about what might be true, so that he can go about proving it through regular channels.

Generally speaking, most of the scientists who investigate things, do not investigate the depths of consciousness and the mind. Scientists are directed by the schools where they train to be more materialistically minded.

If a "mind scientist" had enough incentive, he might apply QM to his investigation of mind so that he could get some ideas about how to go further in his investigations.

Smiley
legendary
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:^)
December 21, 2015, 06:57:33 PM

Reality is quite the contrary actually. Only a handful of events occur in nature that is not yet described and linked mathematically to a theory.
In addition, just because there is a theory doesn't mean that there might not be a host of other theories about the same thing, some of them precisely opposite of others. Nor does it mean that the theory necessarily is going to be found out to be fact.

Theory is a good guess, and sometimes, a not so good guess.
thats actually more or less true. there are some inconsistencies between the quantum mechanics theories and the relativity theories. separately, and within the domains they respectively work on, these theories are 100% accurate, but as soon as you say, apply quantum theories to larger objects that QM does not cover, you can start seeing some inconsistencies that are large enough to be observable. bpth theories describe the state of objects at a given time, but of small and larger sizes (QM and relativity). this is just 1 case though.

Good. Now you have to understand how QM applies to consciousness. Enter the Orch OR theory of Penrose and Hammeroff; it is a scientific hypothesis about mind which invokes QM and it has not been defeated thus far. To understand philosophy of mind (which is really just metaphysics of mind), the first step is to realize that the materialist, reductionist framework cannot apply; this follows immediately from the Orch OR hypothesis since it can be readily seen that feelings ("qualia") came BEFORE the brain; apparently even a single-cell organism (paramecium) has rudimentary feelings and is capable of some clever behavior; according to the hypothesis, this is a result of QM interactions with the microtubules. This hypothesis has a track record and understanding it presents the most viable solution to the hard problem of consciousness. I linked to an explanation by Hammeroff and will link it again, and it is advised to follow the relevant links to understand the argument; the comments are a good read too!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stuart-hameroff/more-rational-than-thou-a_b_7515498.html

It is also VERY interesting to note the correspondence between the human experience of NDE and the "quirky" principles of quantum physics:
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html#a22

More information about QM's link to the mind was posted here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11835498

And that is just getting started. If you wanted to apply QM to consciousness via String Theory, you would see that the whole universe has consciousness. The question is, does God have consciousness outside of the universe (remember, universe means everything)?

Smiley
this is just my point of view.
the human consciousness is not something that can be definitely quantified and explained, and as far as im concerned, quantum mechanics is a specialized theory dealing in the state of extremely small particles at a given time. that view of mine is not something that will not change, not until a veritable theory linking the human mind to a quantifiable explanation is found. so far, i dont think this is something that will be achieved anytime soon, perhaps in the next decade, but its a mystery as far as im concerned.
legendary
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December 21, 2015, 06:47:44 PM

Reality is quite the contrary actually. Only a handful of events occur in nature that is not yet described and linked mathematically to a theory.
In addition, just because there is a theory doesn't mean that there might not be a host of other theories about the same thing, some of them precisely opposite of others. Nor does it mean that the theory necessarily is going to be found out to be fact.

Theory is a good guess, and sometimes, a not so good guess.
thats actually more or less true. there are some inconsistencies between the quantum mechanics theories and the relativity theories. separately, and within the domains they respectively work on, these theories are 100% accurate, but as soon as you say, apply quantum theories to larger objects that QM does not cover, you can start seeing some inconsistencies that are large enough to be observable. bpth theories describe the state of objects at a given time, but of small and larger sizes (QM and relativity). this is just 1 case though.

Good. Now you have to understand how QM applies to consciousness. Enter the Orch OR theory of Penrose and Hammeroff; it is a scientific hypothesis about mind which invokes QM and it has not been defeated thus far. To understand philosophy of mind (which is really just metaphysics of mind), the first step is to realize that the materialist, reductionist framework cannot apply; this follows immediately from the Orch OR hypothesis since it can be readily seen that feelings ("qualia") came BEFORE the brain; apparently even a single-cell organism (paramecium) has rudimentary feelings and is capable of some clever behavior; according to the hypothesis, this is a result of QM interactions with the microtubules. This hypothesis has a track record and understanding it presents the most viable solution to the hard problem of consciousness. I linked to an explanation by Hammeroff and will link it again, and it is advised to follow the relevant links to understand the argument; the comments are a good read too!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stuart-hameroff/more-rational-than-thou-a_b_7515498.html

It is also VERY interesting to note the correspondence between the human experience of NDE and the "quirky" principles of quantum physics:
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html#a22

More information about QM's link to the mind was posted here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11835498

And that is just getting started. If you wanted to apply QM to consciousness via String Theory, you would see that the whole universe has consciousness. The question is, does God have consciousness outside of the universe (remember, universe means everything)?

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3990
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December 21, 2015, 06:41:11 PM

Now, look at the points you made above. Most of them are points about your religion. They are your doctrines. The more you emphasize them, the stronger your religion becomes. Notice in the definitions, #6, below.

From Dictionary.com at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion?s=t:
Quote
religion
[ri-lij-uh n]


noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

7. religions, Archaic. religious rites:
painted priests performing religions deep into the night.

8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion:
a religion to one's vow.


Smiley

EDIT: Besides, saying the truth isn't ad hominem.


What are the points I made that are religious in nature? All I wrote is that I have no opinion about the existence of gods, and that I find the whole idea pointless and boring. I don't think about the topic at all, unless I'm faced with someone trying to tell me what I should believe. How is that a religion? It does not fit any of your dictionary's eight points.



You forgot to read the little line that I said, pointing at the definition of the word religion. Read number 6 in the definition of religion quoted above. It says, "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice." Don't take my word for it. Go to the link and look up the definition for yourself.

The fact that you are constantly explaining and defending what you believe - it doesn't matter what it is - shows that you have religion. If you happen to include some of the other definition points in your religious beliefs, your religion is even stronger.

Smiley
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
December 21, 2015, 05:24:13 PM

Reality is quite the contrary actually. Only a handful of events occur in nature that is not yet described and linked mathematically to a theory.
In addition, just because there is a theory doesn't mean that there might not be a host of other theories about the same thing, some of them precisely opposite of others. Nor does it mean that the theory necessarily is going to be found out to be fact.

Theory is a good guess, and sometimes, a not so good guess.
thats actually more or less true. there are some inconsistencies between the quantum mechanics theories and the relativity theories. separately, and within the domains they respectively work on, these theories are 100% accurate, but as soon as you say, apply quantum theories to larger objects that QM does not cover, you can start seeing some inconsistencies that are large enough to be observable. bpth theories describe the state of objects at a given time, but of small and larger sizes (QM and relativity). this is just 1 case though.

Good. Now you have to understand how QM applies to consciousness. Enter the Orch OR theory of Penrose and Hammeroff; it is a scientific hypothesis about mind which invokes QM and it has not been defeated thus far. To understand philosophy of mind (which is really just metaphysics of mind), the first step is to realize that the materialist, reductionist framework cannot apply; this follows immediately from the Orch OR hypothesis since it can be readily seen that feelings ("qualia") came BEFORE the brain; apparently even a single-cell organism (paramecium) has rudimentary feelings and is capable of some clever behavior; according to the hypothesis, this is a result of QM interactions with the microtubules. This hypothesis has a track record and understanding it presents the most viable solution to the hard problem of consciousness. I linked to an explanation by Hammeroff and will link it again, and it is advised to follow the relevant links to understand the argument; the comments are a good read too!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stuart-hameroff/more-rational-than-thou-a_b_7515498.html

It is also VERY interesting to note the correspondence between the human experience of NDE and the "quirky" principles of quantum physics:
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html#a22

More information about QM's link to the mind was posted here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11835498
full member
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December 21, 2015, 05:24:00 PM
All your links are religious sites attempting to explain atheism.

Atheism explained by religious people is one minority trying to explain another minority that they've never met before. It doesn't work.

Therefore none of those links describe atheism, they describe what religious people think atheism actually is.

To say nothing about "religious people", we do know one thing for sure:
Only Man or GOD could be the guarantor of knowledge and thought (reason).
Hence, all atheists are humanists, since what else could they be?
At least, all rational atheists are humanists. See: "What is Atheism?" in Atheism and Secularity, Vol. 1, Page 10.
Therefore, if one understands the logic behind humanism, one can understand atheism.
If one has refuted the logic behind humanism, then it is proven that all atheists are incorrect.
Therefore, one who has refuted the logic behind humanism has more understanding about atheism itself than any atheist.
What do you think atheism actually is? Just a way to escape all labels and ideologies?

Atheism cannot be re-defined as "a way out of any and all ideological systems" because it is actually an answer to the god-question and it is defined in the context of rationalism; to re-define atheism in this way is to declare not only the death of God but also the death of Man.

Once, atheism meant the opposition to, the resistance against god(s). Now, it only means freedom, to establish new norms and new institutions, and to tear them down and establish new ones again. I think the pseudo-skeptics are doing a disservice to atheists. Atheists should read more before coming to a faulty conclusion that is not supported by the evidence.

Thinking is man's only basic virtue, so who or what gives substance to that activity? Who is the guarantor?

Darwin doubted human reason was reliable if it evolved through natural selection. This is a key point in the argument that materialism is not a rational philosophy. If you cannot trust human reason, then it is irrational to believe anything, including materialism. It is significant that Darwin's beliefs on this subject undermine materialism because Darwin's theory of natural selection was one of the most important ideas that led to materialism and philosophical naturalism being adopted by most scientists. When you consider that Darwin believed natural laws were designed, and he did not trust human reason if it arose through natural selection, you begin to see that exploiting Darwinian theory as foundation of materialism is a huge scam.
Source

Quote from: Ayn Rand
Thinking is man’s only basic virtue, from which all the others proceed. And his basic vice, the source of all his evils, is that nameless act which all of you practice, but struggle never to admit: the act of blanking out, the willful suspension of one’s consciousness, the refusal to think—not blindness, but the refusal to see; not ignorance, but the refusal to know. It is the act of unfocusing your mind and inducing an inner fog to escape the responsibility of judgment—on the unstated premise that a thing will not exist if only you refuse to identify it [this act is also referred to as "magical thinking" by skeptics!], that A will not be A so long as you do not pronounce the verdict “It is.” Non-thinking is an act of annihilation, a wish to negate existence, an attempt to wipe out reality. But existence exists; reality is not to be wiped out, it will merely wipe out the wiper. By refusing to say “It is,” you are refusing to say “I am.” By suspending your judgment, you are negating your person. When a man declares: “Who am I to know?” he is declaring: “Who am I to live?”
donator
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Poor impulse control.
December 21, 2015, 04:19:09 PM
......
Next, right above my quote containing some links to sites that explain what atheism is, and how it is aligned with what a religion is, you wrote, "No. Really really no. That's not atheism at all." And following my link quote you wrote, "None of these links describe atheism." Yet atheism was, like, the entire point of the info in those links... describing atheism. The point here is, you have your opinion. That's okay. I can't apologize for you having an opinion; it isn't my fault you have opinions; so that wasn't what I was apologizing for.


 All your links are religious sites attempting to explain atheism.

Atheism explained by religious people is one minority trying to explain another minority that they've never met before. It doesn't work.

Therefore none of those links describe atheism, they describe what religious people think atheism actually is.

So, what was I apologizing for? I was apologizing that I was taking unfair mental advantage of some near-retarded joker who thinks that anybody would think that search engines might possibly be authorities on atheism; or one who wants to bolster his ideals with limited, not-necessarily-factual information; and one who by his expressing of his "belief" goes entirely against the beliefs of many others, without allowing that some of those others might be right.

I was also apologizing for "roughly" dealing with a weak mentality that doesn't even recognize that the way he is handling his describing of atheism is in a totally religious way.

Honest and fair people don't deal roughly with children. At least not the first time. And I still don't want to deal even the slightest in a rough way with your mentality. But you are pushing the issue.

Smiley

EDIT: Now, I know you will have trouble understanding what I have written above. But that's okay. Other people will understand.

From context, your post doesn't actually mention being sorry for any of the ad-hominem attack you write above. I think you just made it up solely for this post.

As I've mentioned before nothing about my beliefs are religious. I have no opinion about magical sky fathers, rock spirits, snake men or any of the multitude of religious beliefs.

And if some god appears and claims to be the one true god and that god has no other explanation, I'll change my mind.

Anyway, each time you write about what you think I believe, I'll be here to correct you. I won't even take you to task for your irrational ad-hominem attacks.

Now, look at the points you made above. Most of them are points about your religion. They are your doctrines. The more you emphasize them, the stronger your religion becomes. Notice in the definitions, #6, below.

From Dictionary.com at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion?s=t:
Quote
religion
[ri-lij-uh n]


noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

7. religions, Archaic. religious rites:
painted priests performing religions deep into the night.

8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion:
a religion to one's vow.


Smiley

EDIT: Besides, saying the truth isn't ad hominem.


What are the points I made that are religious in nature? All I wrote is that I have no opinion about the existence of gods, and that I find the whole idea pointless and boring. I don't think about the topic at all, unless I'm faced with someone trying to tell me what I should believe. How is that a religion? It does not fit any of your dictionary's eight points.

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