Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 306. (Read 901367 times)

I am an atheist but i dont hate religion. I dont like the people who use religion to further their destructive and/or manipulative agendas and to combat them i feel a need to debunk religion.

one of my favorite quotes is "If I was the Devil I would come to Earth and make the Christian Church exactly what it is today"

Don't you remember that Jesus paraphrased the place in the Old Testament where it says that we are gods if the Word of God comes to us?

If you think that Jesus was talking about the words of the Phoenix Journals as being the Word of God, He never spoke of it. Yet He frequently quoted or paraphrased the Old Testament.

If a person doesn't accept Jesus salvation, he will be dissolved in the Lake of Fire along with the devil and his angels. There isn't any Godness in that.

This means that there is only Godness in those who are alive with Jesus and the Father, having the Holy Spirit in themselves so that they DO have Godness. And if a person has the Holy Spirit in himself so that he believes in Jesus salvation already, he is a god, even in this life.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. Certainly, if your point(s) is(are) the truth, then I agree with you.

People are true Christians if they believe in Jesus, the God-man, for salvation in such a way that they will be saved. Just because a person says he is a Christian, doesn't mean he is one in the way that will save him.

One sin is all it takes to need Jesus. All Jesus was saying is that it is difficult for people who focus on things other than Jesus salvation to be saved.

Rich people usually get rich because they focus on it. Most of the time riches don't simply jump out and grab a person. But when they do, like an inheritance, or a lottery winning, the focus often goes onto the riches, off Jesus salvation.

What do you think?

BADecker speaks for the corrupt churches when he denies reason and the teachings of his own book, he wants us to submit our minds to false stories and authority. He thinks he has a monopoly on truth and refuses to look at what jesus said, namely "god is within you, not here (in jesus) or there (in the bible)". Sorry brother, you have to be responsible for what you do in this world, that means that you use reason to realize that the Bible was written by men and that Jesus was also a man so if you worship and kneel before man, you do not honor god, god works through you and speaks to your heart, you have to get up off of your knees if you want to get somewhere worth going.

You are making my point. Doesn't make sense to say they aren't christian because they commit sins. Everyone does. And there is no different sins you can and cannot do like he was saying. If they believe in jesus and the bible they are christians. With all the good and the bad that comes with it.

I think I understand what you have written about your teaching. This is why I discard it. If you are wrong about what you express about your teaching, please let me know so that I have opportunity to further discard your teaching.

Thank you (Now I am using Bitnow's close  ).

We sure do have different perspectives; let me summarize them:
I believe 1) "don't judge" and 2) "follow the example of Jesus".
You believe 1) "judge against those who doubt/deny that Jesus has 'saved' mankind since they will 'go to hell'" and 2) "follow the Bible and ignore the protests of reason".

You claim to "follow Jesus" and to have genuine faith? Then tell us how many mountains you have moved. Let this be your lesson in non-judgment, BADecker for Matt. 21:21 is the "nail in your coffin". Take a look within before you hypocritically judge another; ask What Would Jesus DO? Would he submit to a worldly authority? Would he submit his reason to any authority that is not Heavenly Father? Would he idly discard a teaching before reading it? Or would he use the mind given by God to judge a teacher based on the FRUITS? God requires spiritual FRUIT, NOT religious nuts; YOU HAVE ALREADY JUDGED YOURSELF BY ATTEMPTING TO JUDGE ME WHEN YOU HAVE NOT "PASSED THE TEST" YOURSELF; LET'S SEE YOU MOVE A MOUNTAIN BEFORE YOU TRY AND TELL US THAT YOU HAVE GENUINE FAITH.

Well, it seems that we have very different religions... at least in some ways. If you ever become a Bible believer, and post such in one of your posts, please say it right at the top, clearly, so that I don't accidentally pass the change by.

By the way, if your "faith" in "Jesus of the Bible" has "saved you", there is a very simple "test" that Jesus gives you in Matthew 21:21:

"If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done."

So I suggest that you do not hypocritically judge me for "not having faith" since Matt. 21:21 is the standard by which YOU will be judged!

You can read more about Jesus's miracles here in Phoenix Journal #12:
http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/j012/

I will simply not believe a false thing. If this doctrine of "savior or hell" is so important to you, there should be plenty of support for it, and it should USE THOSE WORDS BECAUSE THE MEANING OF WORDS IS A VERY IMPORTANT MATTER. You are wrong to say that I am deceiving others; I am attempting a reasoned discussion and I am not a false prophet by any definition. I perceive that you speak falsely. Why do you judge falsely and not take back what you have said?

Jesus says to follow his example, not to dump your wicked actions upon a man for that is pure selfishness and it is not "taking up your cross" at all. BELIEVE IT.

What you mean to say is that "my beliefs" about what it means to "follow Jesus" contradict "your interpretation" of "the Bible"!
I have found those parts of the Bible that state the truth; you have determined that ALL of "the Bible" is the truth. Well, HERE IS SOME TRUTH FOR YOU:

JESUS SAID THAT GOD'S KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU, not "here, God's Kingdom is here in the flesh in me, Jesus" or "there", for God's Kingdom does not come with observation (of history or events). He is telling you to join him on a higher level of consciousness.

Those who preach the ONENESS OF GOD and the brotherhood/sisterhood of humanity, These ones are blessed and true "prophets", the Peacemakers--whose guidance you must seek in your spiritual quest. Never the person--always the WORD!

What? You won't believe it unless it is expressed exactly the way you want it to be expressed? Well, it's your own destruction.

Your life and what you profess, believing in what you profess, all of that is your religion. Look up the meaning of religion. Your religion simply contradicts Bible religion.

In all of that, I never once saw Jesus say "believe that I have come to save mankind" or anything like that. If I missed it, would you please quote one sentence that has Jesus saying he is your savior.

Also, JESUS SAID THAT GOD'S KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU, not "here, within Jesus".

YOU WANT TO QUOTE ACTS AND DENY THE WORDS OF JESUS?

I don't practice any religion because Jesus never started a religious sect. That is where YOU are confused, BADecker. He said "follow me", NOT "believe that I have come to save mankind".

Do not reject all of what I have written just like that, BADecker; the truth is that there is ONE GOD, HIS KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU, not "here, within Jesus".
Jesus never ONCE suggested that he was your "savior", so how can that doctrine be GOD'S TRUTH if it was not stated explicitly again and again? GOD'S TRUTH IS REVEALED LIKE SO: BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM; Jesus says to follow his example, not to dump your wicked actions upon a man for that is pure selfishness and it is not "taking up your cross" at all.

The Bible is tampered,
You choose to surrender all discernment and reason to the dogma that the Bible is purely of God. It is totally unreasonable and false and you use that book to reject all truth whatsoever while admitting that I have indeed posted some true things. You have no valid reason for thinking this way, all you have is "my dogma, my story", as told in "my book"; I have news for you, BADecker: YOUR WAY AND WISDOM HAS NOT WORKED; AND FURTHERMORE, THE WHOLE OF THE EDUCATED WORLD REJECTS THE INTEGRITY OF THE BIBLE.

Wrong, BADecker; your book has been modified by man throughout the ages. Look at how you twist logic to say that God didn't do his job right the first time around:


Wow, how convenient! No need to think, just believe that all of history aligns to your worldview and your magical thinking.

All have freedom, but WITH FREEDOM COMES RESPONSIBILITY. The truth is that you cannot call yourself good if you disclaim responsibility for your evil actions by believing that you are "saved" by "faith". GOD'S TRUTH IS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FOLLOWING THE LAWS AND NO ONE CAN DO IT FOR ANOTHER; EACH MUST CARRY HIS OWN AND IT MATTERS NOT ONE IOTA WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR "PERFECT" BIBLE.

Not true, it says there will be "false prophets who will deceive many", not "reasonable humans discussing back and forth with a religious nuts on a remote corner of the internet".

Also, Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I know. It is difficult for a liar to admit a truth that that he doesn't like to see. But here are a couple of sites that contain a couple of reasonably simple Bible passage sections that show that Jesus is your Savior, if you accept Him.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12741055

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12741055

These aren't, of course, the only ones. But if you can't get these simple ones into your head, how will any of the others make any sense to you?



EDIT: Notice who Jesus is talking about when He says, "The kingdom of God is within you." He is talking about those who accept Him as Savior and Christ. Nobody else fits Savior and Christ.

By the way, Jesus said that God's Kingdom is WITHIN YOU, not "here, within Jesus"... Contrary to "popular belief", he never ONCE suggested that he was your "savior".

http://www.bible-researcher.com/luke17.21.html

To follow Jesus means to follow his example, as set out in the New Commandment. It does not mean to dump your wicked actions upon a "savior" or any man for that matter for that is pure selfishness and it is not "taking up your cross" at all.

He said that God was within him, but that God was also within YOU!
He said that God is not "here", "in Jesus", and that God will NOT be "there", "in Jesus"... God is within YOU!

You can also see from the Gospel of Thomas that he did not believe he was our master.

There were over 28 full gospels written and known. A scholar from South Germany chose the four which were placed into your New Testament--need I say more? How can you continue to be so narrow?
Your churches and church self-appointed priests keep the masses imprisoned. They do not dare even look upon other material than that which is sanctioned by the particular doctrine. Heaven might surely strike ones if they stumbled upon truth. These are the reasons that no Avatars begin or keep religious sects---they are only of God---sects are of man!

If one is a true believer in God then one would find that there is no place where the house of God does not exist!

Jesus allowed His body to be crucified in an effort to again show you the body is so temporary that one should not become attached to it. Then he showed that he could utilize it or cast it aside; or appear as anything he chose. Men continually miss of the lesson's point. Ones must seek out and attach oneself to that which is permanent--the soul or spirit within. You must come to know that the aura or light that is seen around the physical body, even in Kirlian photography, is unaffected by physical pain or death and remains perfect even after the body is cut away or dropped. Note in the picturing of a leaf--cut a portion away and the energy light remains whole.

WHY ALL THESE EXAMPLES FROM SO MANY--
YOU ONLY WANT TO BELIEVE ONE?
So be it, not to allow it, brothers, for that is the purpose of this whole lesson---THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD and you cannot change of it for he has come in many ways and you must become one in God or this is going to be one miser-able time in front of you.

Let us speak of organized religion and how it often misleads humanity and puts forth ridiculous doctrines and meaningless rituals, spinning a web of confusion and fear, thereby clouding and perverting the word of God, in order to maintain control and power over the people.

True religion is spiritual religion and is a seeking after God. There are many aids and props which may be of help in the "focusing" of attention but they should only be offered to man and certainly not imposed upon him.

It is essential to seek the Truth of the One God, to learn of His true laws and to serve His Creation. But in order to learn and understand more about the Lord, most of you need guides or spiritual leaders for you cannot accept your own perfection. Therefore, the problem is to distinguish between the good teachers and the bad teachers, the true prophets and the false, I suppose you might say. How does one make this distinction? You ask this more than just about any other question---that is, unless you are already trapped into deafness.

Emmanuel gave you the exact answer---"YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS."

In other words, one must look to the actions, the fruits of those who would be teachers or guides. Those who preach the ONENESS OF GOD and the brotherhood/sisterhood of humanity, who, like the American Indians, "respect all worship of Him by others and show respect to such things as are held sacred by others", who bring peace and unity to the world by sowing the seeds of love and compassion, patience and tolerance, and who practice what they preach by helping all in need, regardless of race, color, creed, sex, nationality---all “relations”, which, of course, is ALL. These ones are blessed and true "prophets", the Peacemakers--whose guidance you must seek in your spiritual quest. Never the person--always the WORD!

Those who say that "their way" is the "only way", who sow the seeds of hatred and violence, division and disharmony, who point out the differences rather than the similarities between you all, and even those who may preach love, but who practice otherwise, who fail to serve all equally or give to those in need: know them to be the false prophets of whom Jesus warned, the wolves in sheep's clothing, the dividers of humanity and disrupters of the natural flow of Oneness, Unity and Harmony.

Ones of truth will always "allow" and "bless" but will never change of the pro-nouncements of the Laws of God or the Laws of The Creation as to truth. Ones of truth will never say they are the "only one" but will never vary from the truth that the Christed path is the only way unto the Oneness with God. He will not judge but neither will he bend from those truths which have been sent forth from God to guide his path. He will never take the credit of perfection or performance upon self but always act in the name of God Creator.

Only he has a right to call himself worthy, who lives in the light of God's word brought to earth by prophets of all religions for only by being in the truth of God's light and truth is one a prophet. Religions and associations are set up by man who then sets himself up as the decider of truth instead of leaving God's word whole. Ignorance is the cause of religious conflicts from one doctrine to another if they claim their source is God. People talk and yet fail to realize the oneness in All. There is no difference between Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Baha'i or Native Indian. All are from the same mold. Only the veil of ignorance separates them. Ignorance has its roots in the ego, it does not see Him in all things but on a most petty and shallow level.

What is the best name, then, for God? ANYTHING YOU CAN USE TO REMEMBER HIM BY IS BEST: Jehovah, Om, Allah, Great Spirit, Wakan Tanka---whatever, for he knows thy heart-call, not the noise upon thy lips and lungs for those are of earth flesh. The heart soul is that which is of God and to that he always responds--for the call always compels the answer!

You must stop of the separating out of the divisions of the various doctrines and see that that which is wondrous and truth is within all. You must gather the essence of the great perfection from all truth for truth is always truth--always and 100 percent. Man can err and come unto God--man cannot turn from the truth of God and come unto God. If you turn away from the Laws of God and the Laws of The Creation and practice in the ways of Satan and evil, ye shall be left to thy evil and it shall consume of you for evil shall always consume of itself. You may, 100% of mankind, rewrite of the laws and vote upon them by democratic vote---it will change not a hair for changing of them does not make them changed. It only sinks you deeper into the lie for once knowing the truth of it you can never "unknow" of the truth. For another man to tell you a thing which is wrong is right, only makes you the fool if you follow in his stupidity.

The path requires discipline and the opening up unto knowledge and receiving of the truth and the practicing thereof through self-disciplined actions. No more "sitting and waiting" for it to fall over and about thee! None other can do it for you and you cannot do of it for another--each must carry his own.
Highly recommended reading: http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/j012/