Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 302. (Read 901367 times)

No need to say sorry? Well, in that case, I take it all back. I didn't mean to copy you, but I'm not sorry that I did.

Since you are focusing on Beliathon, when I focus on you, it goes right through to him. So I can focus on him when I focus on you.

No need to say sorry: focus on the real opponent (user Beliathon) and don't lose force in fighting the wrong enemy.


Best regards.

Sorry. Didn't mean to copy you.   

You keep confusing your opponents.

Go to say that to user Beliathon.


Best regards

OK, if this is about logic, then it must be a type of debate; let us carefully examine your unfortunate errors together...

OK, I agree. Now I am going to write in large paragraphs because each of the following paragraphs (5 total) is a succinct rebuttal/antithesis that I would like you to address; I will continue to summarize, simplify, and shorten points so that they are more succinct and organized as our discussion goes on, just like we have done before; most of the items below which are in quotes are from the Bible, but I have omitted the citations; to those who are not familiar with the Bible, and to you, BADecker, I think it would help to look up these phrases and read the whole chapter containing them... Now, let us see the result of this "logical debate" right here and now:
Why do you think it is possible to make another God when you are God? When God Creates, the result is Creation. When you realize "I and my father are one" in your own life, then you will "have just a little faith and be able to move a mountain into the ocean". See, it always comes down to being responsible. God gave this gift to YOU, and if you try to return God's gift to the one he sent as a messenger, well that is no different from trying to go to the bank and instead thinking the bank is at the post office; that is no different from disputing an escrowed transaction with the third party instead of "settling with thy adversary", no different from "being a servant of your Master and hiding your (Master's) gifts/talents in the ground" (Matt. 25). God's Kingdom is within you, so those "riches stored up in heaven" are probably within you as well, you just have to "access your inheritance" as a "joint-heir" (brother) with 'the Christ' ("cosmic Christ" or energy, and YES, ESU IS AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL, HOW ELSE DO YOU THINK HE CAN COME? and his name is Sananda (ONE WITH GOD); HE describes in some of the Journals his past experiences as one named Emmanuel, but Esu doesn't object to being called "Jesus" if the intent be toward Christ being). You don't need a co-redemptress (Virgin Mary) and you should not worship the messenger because he said that "God's kindgom is not here" and it is "not of this world", but it is "inside of you" (and by the way, this part is detailed in the Gnostic gospels that were conveniently left out of your studies), I can only point you to the truth, but you must study it and "see the logic" for yourself; if you protest about "Biblical authority", I can only think that your authority comes from a very NARROW and TAMPERED perspective that does not fit in with a holistic (whole) view of the life of JESUS.

This part of your "logic" is quite funny to me; you say that it is in the Bible that "you are a God" and that this is so "at least" "according to" my logic? Are you not the one who claims that the Bible is complete truth and supreme? I am the one who claims it is Holey as in "full of holes" and that you need to use a proper understanding in filling it in, like in understanding WHO God is and that you are the one who works miracles "greater than these". That book has been used to teach evil (e.g. story of Isaac) and the enemy has had a long time to corrupt a great many things in that book, the "interpretation" of the churches (and this includes you, BADecker) is based on a VERY NARROW set of Gospels, obviously excluding PJ #2, which is THE ONLY COMPLETELY VALID GOSPEL. So obviously the KING JAMES Bible, Book of Mormon, and other "BIBLES" are not the best one(s) to look at if you are trying to understand God, and that Biblical "WORD" is not inerrant for it is tampered and made from the hands of many men, it is not the true WORD for GOD IS THE WORD, the "talk of the town" is that GOD'S KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU and “Jesus Christ knew he was God. So wake up and find out eventually who you really are. In our culture, of course, they’ll say you’re crazy and you’re blasphemous, and they’ll either put you in jail or in a nut house (which is pretty much the same thing). However if you wake up in India and tell your friends and relations, ‘My goodness, I’ve just discovered that I’m God,’ they’ll laugh and say, ‘Oh, congratulations, at last you found out'.” (Alan Watts, The Essential Alan Watts) Well, then INDEED you are GOD so YOU are supreme, or at least you will "be blessed" with GRACE if you wisely use your supreme power to "seriously understand and be responsible to Heavenly Father's Laws" (Psalms 1). That is the plain-spoken message of the OT; at least according to these two quotes I discern thusly, so what is wrong with my logic HERE? Your interpretation matters not a bit if it is not LOGICAL; that OT says that we are CHILDREN OF GOD... HE IS THE FATHER, WE ARE THE "SONS"; only through "THE SON" can GOD'S KINGDOM COME; that means all of humanity and it also means YOU, so who are you to designate one member of humanity ("Jesus") as GOD if that ONE is not YOU (ONE WITH YOU)? That ONE (Sananda) who bears a new name is ONE WITH GOD because he has had to learn his own lessons and grow into his ONENESS by understanding... HIS ONENESS!... SO THESE THREE ALL MEAN THE SAME THING: "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" AND "THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU" AND "YOU ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD". GOD GAVE YOU SOVEREIGNTY, BUT YOU SHALL NOT GIVE IT UP UNTO ANOTHER NOR SHALL YOU DUMP YOUR EVIL ACTIONS UPON ONE YOU LABEL "GOD" OR "CHRIST", FOR EACH ONE MUST BE RESPONSIBLE TO FATHER AND "ONLY THROUGH THE CHRIST PATH (I.E. PURENESS IN HEART) SHALL YOU SEE THE FATHER" AND YOU CAN ONLY BE A "SON OF GOD" IF YOU ARE A "PEACEMAKER", NOT ONE WHO "MAKES A GROUP" (CULT) TO DIVIDE SELF FROM ALL; YOU SHOULD NOT FORGET THAT JESUS WAS YOUR BROTHER BECAUSE YOU BOTH CAME FROM THE FATHER.

Well, in "making" that you are making a CULT; that is YOUR CREATION. I strongly suggest you go back and read PJ #29 about cults.

That is a mistake because "Jesus" is NOT YOUR GOD, HE IS YOUR BROTHER, as STATED PLAINLY in the quote that you misunderstood, and this is ALSO understood by the above three famous quotes from the OT and NT; it is very saddening to me that you are not aware of more of the Journals, especially that you have so far refused to read the only valid Gospel despite being such a big "follower of Jesus"; I hope to open your eyes just a bit, my brother and that you can see why my intentions are honest, but to be TOTALLY honest I don't want to waste much time in the discussion for I have "beams that I need to pull out of my own eye"; I pray and act upon my hope that you come to the light, my brother; I have heart and I am just glad that we can continue our discussion until mutual satisfaction, for you are not my adversary, and I wish you the best, I pity your confusion and hope you "come to your senses", and get on board with the truth as taught by that Teacher, of grace, or God-consciousness, or enlightenment.

I hope there is no "trouble", my friend; I am always happy to discuss my perspective with you; I hope you will see that my opinions here are logical and that the message of these two books are not only similar but also fairly different; I think the difference is most clearly apparent to anyone who even reads this one post of mine on our discussion, but especially for those who can realize their own sovereignty and who will refuse to surrender that power to a book, even if it is from God's Messenger. I am not sure about what the Bible says about it but I think God has sent MANY Messengers, but I doubt that only God's Messengers were involved in creating the Bible; it seems to me that man does a lot more bad than good on this planet, and that the society we have now is in danger of collapse as a direct result of the moral collapse that has gone on, but the solution is not "old time religion"; we need to realize our power, so let us reach out to truth and God; after all, to be a Christian means that you follow Christ's Jesus's example and his Law (teaching; Christ path); to be Christian means you know how to move a mountain, and you can also "do greater things" (and if there is any confusion, you can just "seek out the truth and find it"!), and this is because you will know that "I and the Father are one", but you do not need to identify "Christ Jesus" as your "savior" to be a PEACEMAKER, for behold, he never did ONCE suggest that he was your "savior"; he plainly told us that we are all Gods and brothers, and that we needed to repent for our wicked deeds, he never said that we could dump those wicked deeds onto him and get mercy by his deed or his death or anything like that; why don't you read PJ #2 and tell me where in THAT Gospel you can find support for such an interpretation?? I hope to make peace with you, my brother, I want to help you and convince you that I am a follower of the Christ Way, BROTHER; I wish to mention again that you should read Journal #27 about "GOD'S INSTRUCTION MANUAL" and that if you have any disagreement with the rules in that book then we can easily discuss what is essential to "being blessed and understanding God's Law" (Psalms 1), for I think you will not get such a deep understanding of the Journals (LET ALONE THE BIBLE) from what little I have posted here about them.

That is interesting; I have brought to this thread's attention that the relationship between understanding and forgiveness is best understood by rejecting the church's interpretation of the teachings of Jesus regarding forgiveness and instead realizing that Jesus's teachings speak to the individual who wants to find God as a personal experience, to attain what some might call grace, or God-consciousness, or enlightenment. An enlightened one is one who understands, but forgiveness is also understood by the concept of grace, which is related to mercy, and as I have stated before the key to understanding forgiveness is to realize that "God's Kingdom is WITHIN YOU". Forgiveness is elusive, perhaps somewhat like Jesus is elusive, but Jesus did not come to forgive anyone; he never suggested that he was anyone's savior but rather he said that "God's Kingdom is WITHIN YOU". The "cosmic Christ" is the spiritual guide whose teaching embraces all humanity, not just the church built in his name (and his name never was "Jesus", it was Emmanuel, Yeshua, and Esu). Christianity needs to overcome its tendency to be exclusionary and refocus on being a religion of personal insight and spiritual growth. In this way Jesus can be seen for the universal teacher he truly is--someone whose teachings of compassion, tolerance, and understanding can embrace and be embraced by all of us.

My posts about grace in this thread: Comment replying to the post of vero with a long quote from Phoenix Journlas
Comment replying to MMH about the "cosmic Christ" and the dangers of the Bible
and many times in this thread I have quoted Phoenix Journal #32, titled I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE -- Pleiades Connection Vol. III, which gives lengthy discussion on all these topics. I hope both Christians and non-theists alike can tolerate a brief pause in their thinking and take some time to explore these posts and books to get a better idea about understanding, forgiveness, and grace "from the horse's mouth", as I have mentioned in this reply to sorryforthat regarding non-theism, it is important to dedicate yourself to the search for knowledge if you care about discovering the truth for yourself; in that post it is mentioned that we each have our own truth, and to develop that in oneself is a part of awakening (enlightenment); in spirituality, it always comes down to being responsible for your own awakening.

Yes. I should be proud of myself for not listening to you. After all, even the Pope knows that you are not my boss.

What in the world are you rambling on about?

You said, above, "But on the other hand, "Jesus" Sananda tells us that man is all-powerful; this means that God is within man." Then you quoted some Phoenix Journals to prove your point.

So, you believe that I am God. You admitted it above. And, not only am I God, but all the other people are God.

Well, a bunch of other people called Christians got together and used our God power to make the Triune God to be God over all. We can do it - according to you - because we are God. And God can do anything because He is God. So if we are God as you say, we have just used our God power to make Jesus of the Bible to be the Super-God. We also made the Bible to be the Great truth of God. How can we do it? We can do it because we are God... at least according to you.

The Bible says the same thing when Jesus quotes the Old Testament and says, "You are gods to whom the Word of God comes." So, now we have the Bible making us gods, and we have us gods making God to be God, and the Bible to be His holy book. At least according to your logic.

We all can do this because we are God... at least according to you.

Get off it and come down to logic and reason. Even your Phoenix Journals say that Jesus of the Bible is God in this way, because we Gods are making Jesus and God of the Bible to be God over all.

What's the matter? Having trouble reading what I say? I'm not even trying to get you to read the Bible. I'm simply showing you from your own post and your own PJs how you are proclaiming Jesus of the Bible to be God.

Wake up and see the light before your eyes get too dim to see.

Well i seek understanding rather than forgiveness if might come to a chance. Its between a spiritual person or a religous person and religous people always seek forgiveness as to spiritual people where understanding is all they need.

Got that reference from one of vandamme films

BADecker, you are the one who is being illogical. You have claimed:
your Phoenix Journals express the Bible to be supreme
BUT that quote above does not even use the world "Bible", as you have claimed. You cannot idly conclude that these books say something that they do not really say. So where is the logic??

Please, carefully observe my use of reason to correct your false claim, and tell me where I am wrong in case I am not being logical.

You are claiming that there is a "God of the Bible".
I am not so sure that all of the stories in the Bible are true depictions of God; in fact, I think your claim that the Bible is "supreme" (as in supremely true) is very obviously false, and I will make 2 points in this regard:
1) There were over 28 full gospels written and known. A scholar from South Germany chose the four which were placed into your New Testament--need I say more? How can you continue to be so narrow?
2) It has been tampered with on numerous occasions.

This discussion is not about what your NAME is for GOD, it is about the BIBLE; when you say "God of the Bible", you have to realize the logical comments 1 and 2 above; in fact these 2 points are straight out of the Phoenix Journals, so how can the Bible be "supreme"??

Is it not logical that an obvious instance of tampering is the story in the Bible where God terrorizes a child (Isaac) in order to teach the child's father "a lesson"? Anyone can see that there is no way that a God who is good would do this. Maybe that is why atheists "hate religion" and one of the famous atheists wrote a book titled "God is not Great" to make that very point. I don't think man needs books and I think you are misled by that Bible because it has been perverted by the enemy (antichrist). Instead of trying to address how the story is talking about a God of goodness, you should realize what has really happened to that book; your claim that it is "supreme" is simply not logical!

By the way, I have made another poignant post on the "logic" of surrendering your discernment to the Bible, in response to MMH:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12681698

Nice try kid.


Best regards.

Don't apologize, you're quite right. Any god that would bring me into this world is a god that deserves to die.

Ah, you are God too, right? After all, you are playing God by telling me what to do and what I can't do. Your Pope is going to see right through you.

All right, all right. Here it is, below.

This is your answer. If you don't have enough logic to understand it, that doesn't hurt anyone except yourself and others who don't have enough logic to see.

  @Beliathon's PROOF POSITIVE that there is no GOD!    LOLOLOL  ^^^^^^^  (Nor "intelligent Design.")

JK Bro

Unfotunately BADecker, 1auguar is right: you cannot make accusations without showing proofs of what you are saying.

"Affirmanti incumbit probatio"
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence


Best regards.

Since you won't quote the text that validates your point, I will assume that your claim is false.

Another false claim relates to the story in the Bible where God terrorizes a child (Isaac) in order to teach the child's father "a lesson". Anyone can see that there is no way that a God who is good would do this. Maybe that is why atheists "hate religion" and one of the famous atheists wrote a book titled "God is not Great" to make that very point. I don't think man needs books and I think you are misled by that Bible because it has been perverted by the enemy (antichrist).

No, I won't quote it. But here is a quote that you can use to find it yourself. Regarding what you have said about your Phoenix Journals:


Besides, what are you doing answering my posts? You said you placed me on ignore. What's the matter? You couldn't take ignoring me?