The commandment to "love one another" appears thirteen times in twelve verses in the New Testament.
How many times has Jesus explicitly identified himself as my "personal savior" and stated that I will go to hell if I don't believe that he is my "personal savior"? Zero.
Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 332. (Read 901342 times)
Obeying God's Laws will not save me?
I think Jesus would disagree with you; he said "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets".
He said "There is none other commandment greater than these", and "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."
Most Christian denominations consider these two commandments the core of the Christian religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commandment
I think Jesus would disagree with you; he said "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets".
He said "There is none other commandment greater than these", and "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."
Most Christian denominations consider these two commandments the core of the Christian religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commandment
Obeying the law will save you if you obey it perfectly. You have not done so up until now. You will not do so in the future.
There is only one person Who has obeyed the law perfectly. That is Jesus Christ. Since He has obeyed the law perfectly, He has the right to request and receive anything from His father... anything. He has requested you... if you believe on Him. He will not debase Himself below you. But He will take you with Him if you accept Him.
Obeying God's Laws will not save me?
I think Jesus would disagree with you; he said "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets".
He said "There is none other commandment greater than these", and "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."
Most Christian denominations consider these two commandments the core of the Christian religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commandment
I think Jesus would disagree with you; he said "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets".
He said "There is none other commandment greater than these", and "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."
Most Christian denominations consider these two commandments the core of the Christian religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commandment
I disagree, BADecker; Jesus did not talk about being my "personal savior" explicitly, again and again, nor did he repeatedly say that those who don't believe in his BEING will go to hell; I have found that intelligent Christians disagree with you, and your reply is lacking in detail, you just tell me to "go read the Bible", but I have already told you that some parts relating to this question (like Mark 16:16) were added long after the fact (quite suspicious if you ask me!) and also that Paul knew nothing about Jesus and was his worst persecutor.
You are right, I won't trust in a "savior" who would try to take responsibility away from me.
I am responsible for obeying God's Laws, and I will not try and place that burden upon another.
I will not just "sit there" and trust in my "savior" for there are no saviors; you have to do the work and only YOU can turn YOUR LIFE around.
I will do what is true in the light of day, so that it may be clearly seen that my works have been carried out in God.
I also found this passage which contradicts what you are saying yet again:
Rev 20:12
"And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works."
Your case shows us that not everyone believes, or even wants to believe.
You are right, I won't trust in a "savior" who would try to take responsibility away from me.
I am responsible for obeying God's Laws, and I will not try and place that burden upon another.
I will not just "sit there" and trust in my "savior" for there are no saviors; you have to do the work and only YOU can turn YOUR LIFE around.
I will do what is true in the light of day, so that it may be clearly seen that my works have been carried out in God.
I also found this passage which contradicts what you are saying yet again:
Rev 20:12
"And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works."
Since you won't trust, you are lost, unless you change. Why are you lost? Because there is nothing else that can save you. If you could save yourself, you would, by not getting old and dying. So, all your obeying of some laws will not save you.
I disagree, BADecker; Jesus did not talk about being my "personal savior" explicitly, again and again, nor did he repeatedly say that those who don't believe in his BEING will go to hell; I have found that intelligent Christians disagree with you, and your reply is lacking in detail, you just tell me to "go read the Bible", but I have already told you that some parts relating to this question (like Mark 16:16) were added long after the fact (quite suspicious if you ask me!) and also that Paul knew nothing about Jesus and was his worst persecutor.
You are right, I won't trust in a "savior" who would try to take responsibility away from me.
I am responsible for obeying God's Laws, and I will not try and place that burden upon another.
I will not just "sit there" and trust in my "savior" for there are no saviors; you have to do the work and only YOU can turn YOUR LIFE around.
I will do what is true in the light of day, so that it may be clearly seen that my works have been carried out in God.
I also found this passage which contradicts what you are saying yet again:
Rev 20:12
"And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works."
Your case shows us that not everyone believes, or even wants to believe.
You are right, I won't trust in a "savior" who would try to take responsibility away from me.
I am responsible for obeying God's Laws, and I will not try and place that burden upon another.
I will not just "sit there" and trust in my "savior" for there are no saviors; you have to do the work and only YOU can turn YOUR LIFE around.
I will do what is true in the light of day, so that it may be clearly seen that my works have been carried out in God.
I also found this passage which contradicts what you are saying yet again:
Rev 20:12
"And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works."
BADecker, you have yet to contradict my notion that it is not the BEING of Jesus that has any merit, but rather his Oneness with God:
Quote
It is not my being which has any merit--it is my oneness with Creator which is represented in your language as "Christ Knowing"--the label makes no difference be it pronounced differently in all and every language. I repeat something that you perhaps missed in your following of incorrect information givers. EXCEPT THROUGH ME (CHRIST ACTIONS AS GIVEN IN BALANCE; THE LAWS OF HARMONY AND BALANCE OF THE GREAT SPIRIT AND MOTHER/FATHER CREATION/CREATOR), SHALL YE PASS INTO THE PERFECTION OF THE SO-CALLED HOUSE OF GOD.
Why is it that you want me to contradict you on this so badly?
Oh, because you would be shown to be wrong and in disagreement with the intelligent Christian answers on SE.
Jesus simply does not say that those who do not believe in him will go to hell.
Rather, he says that he is the only way to the Father. It is an assumption and an interpretation that this means that the pathway he provides to the Father is available only to those who believe in him.
See my edits above; I tire of repeating the content of this SE question and answers:
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15353/did-jesus-actually-ever-say-if-you-dont-believe-in-me-you-go-to-hell
When you don't take little pieces of the New Testament out of it and try to explain them alone, but rather, keep the whole New Testament together, the whole thought is the salvation that Jesus provided by His righteous life, His work on the cross, His resurrection, and even His ascension to some extent.
A person might come to faith by examining just a few passages of what is written. But usually it takes a little more than that. Usually it takes a reading or hearing of larger sections, in context. Your case shows us that not everyone believes, or even wants to believe.
BADecker, you have yet to contradict my notion that it is not the BEING of Jesus that has any merit, but rather his Oneness with God:
Quote
It is not my being which has any merit--it is my oneness with Creator which is represented in your language as "Christ Knowing"--the label makes no difference be it pronounced differently in all and every language. I repeat something that you perhaps missed in your following of incorrect information givers. EXCEPT THROUGH ME (CHRIST ACTIONS AS GIVEN IN BALANCE; THE LAWS OF HARMONY AND BALANCE OF THE GREAT SPIRIT AND MOTHER/FATHER CREATION/CREATOR), SHALL YE PASS INTO THE PERFECTION OF THE SO-CALLED HOUSE OF GOD.
Why is it that you want me to contradict you on this so badly?
Oh, because you would be shown to be wrong and in disagreement with the intelligent Christian answers on SE.
Jesus simply does not say that those who do not believe in him will go to hell.
Rather, he says that he is the only way to the Father. It is an assumption and an interpretation that this means that the pathway he provides to the Father is available only to those who believe in him.
See my edits above; I tire of repeating the content of this SE question and answers:
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15353/did-jesus-actually-ever-say-if-you-dont-believe-in-me-you-go-to-hell
BADecker, you have yet to contradict my notion that it is not the BEING of Jesus that has any merit, but rather his Oneness with God:
Quote
It is not my being which has any merit--it is my oneness with Creator which is represented in your language as "Christ Knowing"--the label makes no difference be it pronounced differently in all and every language. I repeat something that you perhaps missed in your following of incorrect information givers. EXCEPT THROUGH ME (CHRIST ACTIONS AS GIVEN IN BALANCE; THE LAWS OF HARMONY AND BALANCE OF THE GREAT SPIRIT AND MOTHER/FATHER CREATION/CREATOR), SHALL YE PASS INTO THE PERFECTION OF THE SO-CALLED HOUSE OF GOD.
Why is it that you want me to contradict you on this so badly?
BADecker, you have yet to contradict my notion that it is not the BEING of Jesus that has any merit, but rather his Oneness with God:
When God told you He created you in His image, that image is pure unadulterated Light. If you seek to just "sit there", it is wickedness and your works are exposed as sloth.
Jesus simply does not say here that those who do not believe in him will go to hell.
Rather, he says that he is the only way to the Father. It is an assumption and an interpretation that this means that the pathway he provides to the Father is available only to those who believe in him.
To use a rather prosaic example, if I drive on a road that goes to Denver, it is not necessary for me to believe in the governmental entity that built and maintains that road, or even to have any idea at all about who built the road. It is sufficient for me to drive on the road, and I'll get to Denver.
Similarly, if the Son has provided a pathway to the Father, that doesn't necessarily require that we intellectually believe in the Son; only that we travel the path that the Son has provided.
Quote
It is not my being which has any merit--it is my oneness with Creator which is represented in your language as "Christ Knowing"--the label makes no difference be it pronounced differently in all and every language. I repeat something that you perhaps missed in your following of incorrect information givers. EXCEPT THROUGH ME (CHRIST ACTIONS AS GIVEN IN BALANCE; THE LAWS OF HARMONY AND BALANCE OF THE GREAT SPIRIT AND MOTHER/FATHER CREATION/CREATOR), SHALL YE PASS INTO THE PERFECTION OF THE SO-CALLED HOUSE OF GOD.
When God told you He created you in His image, that image is pure unadulterated Light. If you seek to just "sit there", it is wickedness and your works are exposed as sloth.
Jesus simply does not say here that those who do not believe in him will go to hell.
Rather, he says that he is the only way to the Father. It is an assumption and an interpretation that this means that the pathway he provides to the Father is available only to those who believe in him.
To use a rather prosaic example, if I drive on a road that goes to Denver, it is not necessary for me to believe in the governmental entity that built and maintains that road, or even to have any idea at all about who built the road. It is sufficient for me to drive on the road, and I'll get to Denver.
Similarly, if the Son has provided a pathway to the Father, that doesn't necessarily require that we intellectually believe in the Son; only that we travel the path that the Son has provided.
You MUST turn your life around to be saved. The more you try, the more you find that you can't do it 100% as is required. Meditating on the law shows you that you can't keep the law. Even if you could, you won't.
This is not the main conclusion that one gets after meditating upon the law.So, because you cannot do everything all at once, you may as well stop meditating? You may as well stop trying and "sit back" to wait for your "savior"?
Now, consider that slothfulness is a sin! You need to do work to get anywhere, and God's kingdom is no different. You need to actually go out and show that love to thy neighbor, you can't just "sit there"!
"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God." (John 3:19-21, bold added)
Quote
Since you don't keep the law, you are damned. The next step is to find the way to be saved, the gift of God through faith in Jesus Christ His son.
You say that you are damned unless you are saved by Jesus.
Jesus simply does not say that those who do not believe in him will go to hell (see above, my chat with MMH).
John 14:5-11:
Quote
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
You MUST turn your life around to be saved. The more you try, the more you find that you can't do it 100% as is required. Meditating on the law shows you that you can't keep the law. Even if you could, you won't.
This is not the main conclusion that one gets after meditating upon the law.So, because you cannot do everything all at once, you may as well stop meditating? You may as well stop trying and "sit back" to wait for your "savior"?
Now, consider that slothfulness is a sin! You need to do work to get anywhere, and God's kingdom is no different. You need to actually go out and show that love to thy neighbor, you can't just "sit there"!
"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God." (John 3:19-21, bold added)
Quote
Since you don't keep the law, you are damned. The next step is to find the way to be saved, the gift of God through faith in Jesus Christ His son.
You say that you are damned unless you are saved by Jesus.
Jesus simply does not say that those who do not believe in him will go to hell (see above, my chat with MMH).
I'm not going to waste my time arguing about someone who takes their religious teachings from an "alien". I don't agree with you.
You would rather take your teachings from Man's book than from the Master Christos?
You think that it is impossible for Christ to teach through a scribe in this day and age?
You would rather take your teachings from Man's book than from the Master Christos?
You think that it is impossible for Christ to teach through a scribe in this day and age?
Why did you stop using the account bl4kjaguar?
I'm not going to waste my time arguing about someone who takes their religious teachings from an "alien". I don't agree with you.
You would rather take your teachings from Man's book than from the Master Christos?You think that it is impossible for Christ to teach through a scribe in this day and age?
I am posting the answers of educated Christians who have no awareness of Hatonn and Sananda, surely you should have a lot in common with them, and you should be able to correct their errors if there is disagreement; when I quote someone in this post, it is one of those who answered that question on SE; no need to attack my beliefs when these are representative of educated Christians:
Jesus saves us,
Where did he say that? "Jesus does not say that the kingdom of God is external to you or that it is a destination that one reaches only after physical death, but that it is within you--present in this very life at this very moment. Perhaps, then, it would be wise to consider that both "heaven" and "hell" as they are traditionally conceived (as eternal, external states of being) are, in actuality, inner states of mind or soul that are generated by actions in this life."
In this light, let’s consider the beginning of the Gospel of Thomas:
“Jesus said, If your leaders say to you, ‘Behold, the kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds in the sky will get there before you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will get there before you. Rather, the kingdom is inside you and outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and embody poverty” (Saying 3).
and demons have to bow down to Him.
We do not disagree; the darkness hates the light, there is no doubt; however, consider the words of that one who incarnated as Emmanuel:"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'" (Matthew 7: 17-23)
AND:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it." (John 14:8-14)
"Notice that Jesus does not say anything here about those who do not believe in him, but only about what will happen for those who do believe in him. Clearly, belief in him brings great benefits of light and power and access to the Father, meaning God.
But Jesus simply does not say here that those who do not believe in him will go to hell.
Rather, he says that he is the only way to the Father. It is an assumption and an interpretation that this means that the pathway he provides to the Father is available only to those who believe in him.
To use a rather prosaic example, if I drive on a road that goes to Denver, it is not necessary for me to believe in the governmental entity that built and maintains that road, or even to have any idea at all about who built the road. It is sufficient for me to drive on the road, and I'll get to Denver.
Similarly, if the Son has provided a pathway to the Father, that doesn't necessarily require that we intellectually believe in the Son; only that we travel the path that the Son has provided.
We are not a god.
God resides within you; Emmanuel said it.Your teachings are not Christian.
Emmanuel did not say "God resides within you"? That's BADecker's point. Christianity teaches salvation by grace, not by works and it's not a minor difference, it's the main message.
It is wishful thinking to "sit around" and be saved just by your "belief", which is really nothing at all; it is not like you are actually using that belief to "meditate upon God's law day and night" in order to be blessed (Psalms 1).
Plus, it is not Biblical. "It is never mere lack of belief in Jesus (as that is usually understood today) that he said would cause a person to go to hell. Merely believing, or not believing, in Jesus is not sufficient to save or damn a person, as many passages show."
In Matthew and Luke, "Jesus does not say that these cities would be brought down to Hades because they didn't believe in him. Instead, he says that this would happen because they didn't repent."
Now, even BADecker has told me that I must turn my life around according to what Jesus tells me; however, this sounds to me like another way of saying that one does have to obey God's Law and make effort towards that end after all! Is it not said "All have fallen short of God's glory"?
God is all-forgiving mercy, and he resides within YOU; thus, you will EARN your spiritual unity by standing responsible for obeying the laws of God, not by some "belief" that tricks you into thinking that someone else has taken responsibility for YOU.
I have asked and asked and asked, and neither MMH nor BADecker have anything to say in response to the intelligent Christians who have posted their answers to this question on SE, nor do these two care to answer my questions about how a "savior" is magical thinking, or to contradict my notion that it is not the BEING of Jesus that has any merit, but rather his Oneness with God:
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15353/did-jesus-actually-ever-say-if-you-dont-believe-in-me-you-go-to-hell
You MUST turn your life around to be saved. The more you try, the more you find that you can't do it 100% as is required. Meditating on the law shows you that you can't keep the law. Even if you could, you won't. Since you don't keep the law, you are damned. The next step is to find the way to be saved, the gift of God through faith in Jesus Christ His son.
Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least.
I find that to be a flaw. A murder, rapist, or mass killer could be a Christian. After killing thousands of people, he/she should still be granted access to heaven where everything is great?
There is rumor, and strong evidence here and there, that Hitler made it to Argentina after WWII, and died there in his 90s.
If Hitler turned to Jesus in repentance for his crimes, and accepted that God would forgive him because of the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross, even Hitler would be saved.
Which is obviously a flaw. People like that should not be saved just because he believes in the sacrifice of Jesus. If you believe that Hitler should belong in heaven, then I don't know why I'm even having this conversation with you.
The Lord created all of humanity. He loves us all beyond anything we can imagine. The best example is a parent loving his or her child, but it's so far beyond that. He made us in the womb. Psalm 139:13
He wants EVERYONE saved, because He loves us so much. That's why Jesus dying on the cross is such a big deal. He died so anyone can be saved from death. Plus Hitler was demonically oppressed. And though he did what he did (and shouldn't have), he was certainly egged on and led down the wrong path.
If he continued to kill, he would not be Christian. Once you get born again, you'd ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and it would change your heart of stone, to a flesh heart, figuratively. You would then, be convicted (have a conscience) telling you it's wrong, and would either follow Jesus's teachings and start getting away from all sin, or fall away and not be Christian (saved) anymore. Those who fall away from the teachings can continue to call themselves Christian and sin, but Jesus will not save them.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
From what you've said though, he can kill as much as he wants. But if he wholeheartedly believes that the lord is the true savior, then he will be saved.
Technically, this is true. But if he keeps on sinning and repenting, he eventually shows that his faith is false. He shows it to himself, and then he has no more faith. Then he is lost.
Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least.
I find that to be a flaw. A murder, rapist, or mass killer could be a Christian. After killing thousands of people, he/she should still be granted access to heaven where everything is great?
There is rumor, and strong evidence here and there, that Hitler made it to Argentina after WWII, and died there in his 90s.
If Hitler turned to Jesus in repentance for his crimes, and accepted that God would forgive him because of the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross, even Hitler would be saved.
Which is obviously a flaw. People like that should not be saved just because he believes in the sacrifice of Jesus. If you believe that Hitler should belong in heaven, then I don't know why I'm even having this conversation with you.
The Lord created all of humanity. He loves us all beyond anything we can imagine. The best example is a parent loving his or her child, but it's so far beyond that. He made us in the womb. Psalm 139:13
He wants EVERYONE saved, because He loves us so much. That's why Jesus dying on the cross is such a big deal. He died so anyone can be saved from death. Plus Hitler was demonically oppressed. And though he did what he did (and shouldn't have), he was certainly egged on and led down the wrong path.
If he continued to kill, he would not be Christian. Once you get born again, you'd ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and it would change your heart of stone, to a flesh heart, figuratively. You would then, be convicted (have a conscience) telling you it's wrong, and would either follow Jesus's teachings and start getting away from all sin, or fall away and not be Christian (saved) anymore. Those who fall away from the teachings can continue to call themselves Christian and sin, but Jesus will not save them.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
From what you've said though, he can kill as much as he wants. But if he wholeheartedly believes that the lord is the true savior, then he will be saved.
That's not true, as the passage says. Christianity says you need Jesus as your Lord and Savior. He saved us, through believing in Him and His sacrifice, but He's also our Lord, and we want to do His will. If you only believe and don't have follow His teachings, you aren't saved.
I think we're on a thin line that may be confusing to you.
1) No one saved can continue to sin all the time (like continuing to murder people) when they know it's wrong just to ask forgiveness later.
2) People who are saved will continue to slip up and sin, though they're trying regularly to walk in Lord's ways, and they would be saved.
Now read through all these quoted messages and you will find out that you're only contradicting yourself.
Please show me the contradictions, and I'll clarify.
Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least.
I find that to be a flaw. A murder, rapist, or mass killer could be a Christian. After killing thousands of people, he/she should still be granted access to heaven where everything is great?
There is rumor, and strong evidence here and there, that Hitler made it to Argentina after WWII, and died there in his 90s.
If Hitler turned to Jesus in repentance for his crimes, and accepted that God would forgive him because of the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross, even Hitler would be saved.
Which is obviously a flaw. People like that should not be saved just because he believes in the sacrifice of Jesus. If you believe that Hitler should belong in heaven, then I don't know why I'm even having this conversation with you.
The Lord created all of humanity. He loves us all beyond anything we can imagine. The best example is a parent loving his or her child, but it's so far beyond that. He made us in the womb. Psalm 139:13
He wants EVERYONE saved, because He loves us so much. That's why Jesus dying on the cross is such a big deal. He died so anyone can be saved from death. Plus Hitler was demonically oppressed. And though he did what he did (and shouldn't have), he was certainly egged on and led down the wrong path.
If he continued to kill, he would not be Christian. Once you get born again, you'd ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and it would change your heart of stone, to a flesh heart, figuratively. You would then, be convicted (have a conscience) telling you it's wrong, and would either follow Jesus's teachings and start getting away from all sin, or fall away and not be Christian (saved) anymore. Those who fall away from the teachings can continue to call themselves Christian and sin, but Jesus will not save them.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
From what you've said though, he can kill as much as he wants. But if he wholeheartedly believes that the lord is the true savior, then he will be saved.
That's not true, as the passage says. Christianity says you need Jesus as your Lord and Savior. He saved us, through believing in Him and His sacrifice, but He's also our Lord, and we want to do His will. If you only believe and don't have follow His teachings, you aren't saved.
I think we're on a thin line that may be confusing to you.
1) No one saved can continue to sin all the time (like continuing to murder people) when they know it's wrong just to ask forgiveness later.
2) People who are saved will continue to slip up and sin, though they're trying regularly to walk in Lord's ways, and they would be saved.
Now read through all these quoted messages and you will find out that you're only contradicting yourself.
That's BADecker's point. Christianity teaches salvation by grace, not by works and it's not a minor difference, it's the main message.
It is wishful thinking to "sit around" and be saved just by your "belief", which is really nothing at all; it is not like you are actually using that belief to "meditate upon God's law day and night" in order to be blessed (Psalms 1).
Plus, it is not Biblical. "It is never mere lack of belief in Jesus (as that is usually understood today) that he said would cause a person to go to hell. Merely believing, or not believing, in Jesus is not sufficient to save or damn a person, as many passages show."
"In Matthew and Luke, Jesus does not say that these cities would be brought down to Hades because they didn't believe in him. Instead, he says that this would happen because they didn't repent."
Now, even BADecker has told me that I must turn my life around according to what Jesus tells me; however, this sounds to me like another way of saying that one does have to obey God's Law and make effort towards that end after all! Is it not said "All have fallen short of God's glory"?
God is all-forgiving mercy, and he resides within YOU; thus, you will EARN your spiritual unity by standing responsible for obeying the laws of God, not by some "belief" that tricks you into thinking that someone else has taken responsibility for YOU.
I have asked and asked and asked, and neither MMH nor BADecker have anything to say in response to the intelligent Christians who have posted their answers to this question on SE, nor do these two care to answer my questions about how a "savior" is magical thinking, or to contradict my notion that it is not the BEING of Jesus that has any merit, but rather his Oneness with God:
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15353/did-jesus-actually-ever-say-if-you-dont-believe-in-me-you-go-to-hell
I'm not going to waste my time arguing about someone who takes their religious teachings from an "alien". I don't agree with you. Jesus saves us, and demons have to bow down to Him. We are not a god. Your teachings are not Christian.
That's BADecker's point. Christianity teaches salvation by grace, not by works and it's not a minor difference, it's the main message.
It is wishful thinking to "sit around" and be saved just by your "belief", which is really nothing at all; it is not like you are actually using that belief to "meditate upon God's law day and night" in order to be blessed (Psalms 1).
Plus, it is not Biblical. "It is never mere lack of belief in Jesus (as that is usually understood today) that he said would cause a person to go to hell. Merely believing, or not believing, in Jesus is not sufficient to save or damn a person, as many passages show."
In Matthew and Luke, "Jesus does not say that these cities would be brought down to Hades because they didn't believe in him. Instead, he says that this would happen because they didn't repent."
Now, even BADecker has told me that I must turn my life around according to what Jesus tells me; however, this sounds to me like another way of saying that one does have to obey God's Law and make effort towards that end after all! Is it not said "All have fallen short of God's glory"?
God is all-forgiving mercy, and he resides within YOU; thus, you will EARN your spiritual unity by standing responsible for obeying the laws of God, not by some "belief" that tricks you into thinking that someone else has taken responsibility for YOU.
I have asked and asked and asked, and neither MMH nor BADecker have anything to say in response to the intelligent Christians who have posted their answers to this question on SE, nor do these two care to answer my questions about how a "savior" is magical thinking, or to contradict my notion that it is not the BEING of Jesus that has any merit, but rather his Oneness with God:
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15353/did-jesus-actually-ever-say-if-you-dont-believe-in-me-you-go-to-hell
Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least.
I find that to be a flaw. A murder, rapist, or mass killer could be a Christian. After killing thousands of people, he/she should still be granted access to heaven where everything is great?
There is rumor, and strong evidence here and there, that Hitler made it to Argentina after WWII, and died there in his 90s.
If Hitler turned to Jesus in repentance for his crimes, and accepted that God would forgive him because of the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross, even Hitler would be saved.
Which is obviously a flaw. People like that should not be saved just because he believes in the sacrifice of Jesus. If you believe that Hitler should belong in heaven, then I don't know why I'm even having this conversation with you.
The Lord created all of humanity. He loves us all beyond anything we can imagine. The best example is a parent loving his or her child, but it's so far beyond that. He made us in the womb. Psalm 139:13
He wants EVERYONE saved, because He loves us so much. That's why Jesus dying on the cross is such a big deal. He died so anyone can be saved from death. Plus Hitler was demonically oppressed. And though he did what he did (and shouldn't have), he was certainly egged on and led down the wrong path.
If he continued to kill, he would not be Christian. Once you get born again, you'd ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and it would change your heart of stone, to a flesh heart, figuratively. You would then, be convicted (have a conscience) telling you it's wrong, and would either follow Jesus's teachings and start getting away from all sin, or fall away and not be Christian (saved) anymore. Those who fall away from the teachings can continue to call themselves Christian and sin, but Jesus will not save them.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
From what you've said though, he can kill as much as he wants. But if he wholeheartedly believes that the lord is the true savior, then he will be saved.
That's not true, as the passage says. Christianity says you need Jesus as your Lord and Savior. He saved us, through believing in Him and His sacrifice, but He's also our Lord, and we want to do His will. If you only believe and don't have follow His teachings, you aren't saved.
I think we're on a thin line that may be confusing to you.
1) No one saved can continue to sin all the time (like continuing to murder people) when they know it's wrong and aren't even trying to do better, just to ask forgiveness later.
2) People who are saved will continue to slip up and sin, though they're trying regularly to walk in Lord's ways, and they would be saved.
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