Topic: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? - page 10. (Read 34886 times)

and if it came down to which side im on in the epic intellectually battle of the crazy-libertards and the evil-commies, i would be on the commies side. they are both about equally bad.

simpler solution: put it one big pile, take what you need.

First dude: I have too many potatoes, but sure would love some milk. Want to trade?
Second dude: Sure, I have way too much milk, and I'd love some potatoes. What do you say to 5 potatoes per gallon?
First dude: It's a deal, and any time you want more, just come on by.

Of course, this is inefficient, and there's no guarantee that the guy who has milk wants potatoes. Maybe the guy who wants potatoes has corn, and the guy who has milk wants corn, but not potatoes. That's why we invented money. To facilitate trade.

first dude: "hey i have way too many potatoes, here is some".
second dude: "i have too much milk, here is some."

Yeah, kokjo say this, so this must be true.

Why you're wasting your time on forum about money, anyway ?

thats is not a limit, because we know about it, and are therefor able to work around it.

communism can scale.

In a small group or family, sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

Dunbar's number is a suggested cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships. These are relationships in which an individual knows who each person is, and how each person relates to every other person.[1] Proponents assert that numbers larger than this generally require more restrictive rules, laws, and enforced norms to maintain a stable, cohesive group. It has been proposed to lie between 100 and 230, with a commonly used value of 150.

(...)

Dunbar's surveys of village and tribe sizes also appeared to approximate this predicted value, including 150 as the estimated size of a Neolithic farming village; 150 as the splitting point of Hutterite settlements (...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Yes, it's wikipedia, but I think it's generally accepted.

Government owns the means of production (ie, us).  It lets us keep a fraction of the fruits of our labour.

I'm sure there were many slave plantations that were managed well and didn't treat their slaves so bad.  Doesn't make it a valid system.

The American system is very socialist.  How many people work for the government?  Then how many people work indirectly for it through contracting?  How many social security and medicare benefits are there?  And people try to tell me the Americans aren't socialist?

Most Americans love and want socialism.  I believe this is actually true for anywhere because let's face it most people want free stuff (or the perception of free stuff) and they want to be looked after rather than take responsibility for their own lives.   

The free market system is what has been shown to generate the wealth, the socialist system just feeds off it and eventually consumes it whole.

The fact that Americans "fear socialism", for the most part is just something they've been ingrained to think, just like virtually the entire rest of the world likes socialism and hates the free market.  Neither group have any idea what they are talking about for the most part and it's just coincidence (due to history) that the Americans have this one right.  Not because they intellectually know it to be true.

first dude: "hey i have way too many potatoes, here is some".
second dude: "i have too much milk, here is some."

So who should be responsible?  No-one?  Or are we saying that's the government's job?  To be responsible for every one?

I can't imagine what a society of irresponsible people might look like.   Oh wait a sec... it's the fucked up society I'm currently living in.

Someone who takes responsibility doesn't care about QA or whatnot. He/she will just make as good and as much as (s)he can. Some who lacks responsibility needs QA to poke his/her ass to keep production up. The latter one being the one who will work just enough not to get fired even when QA checks his prostate every 5 minutes. The former one doesn't care about getting fired. (S)He can shit on the CEO's desk without getting into trouble. He's responsible and can find a job anywhere.

No, they should not live in an empty house because it is not theirs. Squatters typically destroy the homes they occupy.

If, however, they were to take responsibility for an abandoned - not simply empty - house, and maintain it, that's something else entirely. That's taking ownership.

Wrong. Productivity is a direct result of responsibility.

Compare the worker who gets paid the same amount no matter how many widgets he makes a day, no matter how many get rejected by QA, to the worker who only gets paid for the widgets he makes that pass QA. The former, not responsible for his speed nor his quality of work, will only do as many, and those only as good, as needed to avoid being fired. The latter, who is held responsible for the speed and quality of his work, will attempt to make sure every piece he produces is perfect, and put out as fast as possible. If the former worker is protected from being fired, his work will suffer even more.

so they could not live in an empty house, because someone could potentially earn money from it, if someone was willing to buy?

i do not agree that there should be homeless people, when there are empty homes.

and if people did not have to care about it, they would be more productive.

and if people did not have to care about it, they would be more productive.

people just need to realize that there are enough resources for all to live happily, instead of the "fuck you, this is mine" capitalistic attitude.

Personal responsibility. It's a bitch.

Not at all. They could rent, live with friends, or parents, or get together with some other people and share a house.

Maybe not.  But that's the times we live in, and I don't think things would be as harsh in a more liberal world.  I think the fact that it's centrally planned leads to the bubbles which then leads to a lot of people losing money because they have got the wrong market signals which then leads to people like him saying that people are robbed of their homes because of liberalism and the reason he thinks that is because of the general propaganda that America is a liberal free market when it's nothing of the sort.

A mouthful but hopefully you get the point.

I don't think he was specifically speaking of the housing bubble, but the fact that in a capitalist economy, if you don't pay your bills, you're out on your ear.

Personal responsibility. It's a bitch.