Why do you believe God exists? - page 13.

CoinCube

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Quote from: af_newbie on November 29, 2018, 06:19:48 PM

There are billions of videos on youtube. Not one is from God himself.

Say God came to you personally via YouTube or whatever format you found convincing gave you personal commands after informing you that you as the creator of the universe his will is paramount.

In that circumstance would you be a free man or a slave?

You would be a slave compelled by a power greater then you. By not compelling our belief God grants us freedom. We are free to accept God or reject him.

When we genuinely look for God he is easily found in the miracles of daily life all around us. Similarly when we truly reject God he becomes all but invisible to us and we are left alone to swim in a sea of nihilism.

ATMD

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Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 09:33:33 PM

Wow, that is a big conjecture right there.

First of all, if that were the case, how would you distinguish God from something that does not exist? So it is safe to put God in the same bucket as things that do not exist.

Snow White might exist just as well as any of the Gods people wrote about over the years.

Do you believe Snow White exists? How about Santa Claus?

We have no evidence that God exists, that is all we can say.

Fantasising about things that might exist does not get us any closer to the truth.

You are right, we have no scientific evidence that God exists, only anecdotal evidences.

Regarding the conjecture, I am not sure it is a big ask to be honest. If even God has to follow the laws of physics (must only be at one place at one time, must be subjected to the laws of gravity, must be able to be detected by our techno scientific instruments etc), then God ceases to be God. He would not be any different to you or me.

I would not compare God to Snow White or Santa Claus because the experience of God is a global phenomenon from people from all cultures around the world throughout the history of mankind.

af_newbie

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Quote from: ATMD on November 30, 2018, 07:31:57 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 07:25:45 PM

The personal spiritual experiences are real. Those are internal to a person's brain. How do we know? We see their brain activity on the brain scans.

Unfortunately, the object of those experiences is not real UNLESS other people and instruments/cameras can observe/record EXACTLY THE SAME experience.

Many people believe that they are Napoleons. Their experience is real to them. However, we know they are delusional just like people who see, hear or 'feel' Jesus.

Yes, but if we could also experience those things too, the nature of God would no longer be personal. It would be public to everyone.

For all we know, God does not follow the rules of science and physics. God could easily be invisible to our eyes and our instruments, does that mean God does not exist? Then this would mean that we are God, because either we can observe it or it does not exist.

Wow, that is a big conjecture right there.

First of all, if that were the case, how would you distinguish God from something that does not exist? So it is safe to put God in the same bucket as things that do not exist.

Snow White might exist just as well as any of the Gods people wrote about over the years.

Do you believe Snow White exists? How about Santa Claus?

We have no evidence that God exists, that is all we can say.

Fantasising about things that might exist does not get us any closer to the truth.

ATMD

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Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 07:35:55 PM

Let's see the footage of God then. Where is it? There are billions of videos on youtube, not one is from God.

Anyone who reads this thread and can talk to God, please ask God to post here.

Why does God need salesmen? He does not care to show up for work? I would fire his ass in a New York minute.

Sorry I edited my answer to add a bit more info. I wanted to say that if God shows up on Youtube, it would mean that the nature of God is no longer a private relationship, but rather a public one.

af_newbie

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Quote from: ATMD on November 30, 2018, 07:31:57 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 07:25:45 PM

The personal spiritual experiences are real. Those are internal to a person's brain. How do we know? We see their brain activity on the brain scans.

Unfortunately, the object of those experiences is not real UNLESS other people and instruments/cameras can observe/record EXACTLY THE SAME experience.

Many people believe that they are Napoleons. Their experience is real to them. However, we know they are delusional just like people who see, hear or 'feel' Jesus.

Yes, but if we could also experience those things too, the nature of God is no longer personal. It is now public to everyone who has a camera/instrument.

Let's see the footage of God then. Where is it? There are billions of videos on youtube, not one is from God.

Anyone who reads this thread and can talk to God, please ask God to post here.

Why does God need salesmen? He does not care to show up for work? I would fire his ass in a New York minute.

ATMD

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Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 07:25:45 PM

The personal spiritual experiences are real. Those are internal to a person's brain. How do we know? We see their brain activity on the brain scans.

Unfortunately, the object of those experiences is not real UNLESS other people and instruments/cameras can observe/record EXACTLY THE SAME experience.

Many people believe that they are Napoleons. Their experience is real to them. However, we know they are delusional just like people who see, hear or 'feel' Jesus.

Yes, but if we could also experience those things too, the nature of God would no longer be personal. It would be public to everyone.

For all we know, God does not follow the rules of science and physics. God could easily be invisible to our eyes and our instruments, does that mean God does not exist? Then this would mean that we are God, because either we can observe it or it does not exist.

af_newbie

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Quote from: ATMD on November 30, 2018, 07:06:24 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 06:46:40 PM

Those are brain malfunctions. Unless you have some objective observers verifying the experience, these "spiritual experiences" are just that, confined to a person's brain. Just like dreams or conscious thoughts.

The human brain is very complicated. Many people suffer from mental disorders. I think believing in something that is not real is a delusion.

Religion is a mental disorder.

Yes, but how do we know what they experience is not real. Their experiences could very well be as real as the keyboard you are typing on.

Is it because we can not observe God for ourselves?

What if the nature of God is a personal relationship?

If we have no personal relationship with God does that mean others can not have as well?

To dismiss their relationships with God would be lying to ourselves.

The personal spiritual experiences are real. Those are internal to a person's brain. How do we know? We see their brain activity on the brain scans.

Unfortunately, the object of those experiences is not real UNLESS other people and instruments/cameras can observe/record EXACTLY THE SAME experience.

Many people believe that they are Napoleons. Their experience is real to them. However, we know they are delusional just like people who see, hear or 'feel' Jesus.

ATMD

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Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 06:46:40 PM

Those are brain malfunctions. Unless you have some objective observers verifying the experience, these "spiritual experiences" are just that, confined to a person's brain. Just like dreams or conscious thoughts.

The human brain is very complicated. Many people suffer from mental disorders. I think believing in something that is not real is a delusion.

Religion is a mental disorder.

Yes, but how do we know what they experience is not real. Their experiences could very well be as real as the keyboard you are typing on.

Is it because we can not observe God for ourselves?

What if the nature of God is a personal relationship?

If we have no personal relationship with God does that mean others can not have as well?

To dismiss their relationships with God would be lying to ourselves.

af_newbie

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Merit: 1468

Quote from: ATMD on November 30, 2018, 06:10:23 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 05:57:11 PM

You need an open mind to evaluate if the evidence presented is true.

Accepting religious stories without evidence is being gullible, not being open-minded.

You can say I don't know if a God exists.

The evidence presented in the scriptures definitely rules out the existence of those Abrahamic Gods. End of story.

If you have evidence of any other Gods, let's hear it.

Exactly. You need an open mind to evaluate if the evidence presented is true. The problem for both of us is the evidences are anecdotal. A guy says an unbelievable miracle happened in his life blah blah blah... Another guy says this unexplained miracle happened in his life blah blah blah... These are anecdotal evidences, they can not be proven by anyone except the person himself. I am not talking about the bible, it is not evidence. I am talking about mystical, spiritual experiences that science can not explain. How do we, as logical scientific-minded people, reconcile these experiences with our science? Are we to dismiss their experiences as being crazy and simply hallucination? If we say that, they would call us close-minded people.

Those are brain malfunctions. Unless you have some objective observers verifying the experience, these "spiritual experiences" are just that, confined to a person's brain. Just like dreams or conscious thoughts.

The human brain is very complicated. Many people suffer from mental disorders. I think believing in something that is not real is a delusion.

Religion is a mental disorder.

ATMD

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Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 05:57:11 PM

You need an open mind to evaluate if the evidence presented is true.

Accepting religious stories without evidence is being gullible, not being open-minded.

You can say I don't know if a God exists.

The evidence presented in the scriptures definitely rules out the existence of those Abrahamic Gods. End of story.

If you have evidence of any other Gods, let's hear it.

Exactly. You need an open mind to evaluate if the evidence presented is true. The problem for both of us is the evidences are anecdotal. A guy says an unbelievable miracle happened in his life blah blah blah... Another guy says this unexplained miracle happened in his life blah blah blah... These are anecdotal evidences, they can not be proven by anyone except the person himself. I am not talking about the bible, it is not evidence. I am talking about mystical, spiritual experiences that science can not explain. How do we, as logical scientific-minded people, reconcile these experiences with our science? Are we to dismiss their experiences as being crazy and simply hallucination? If we say that, they would call us close-minded people.

af_newbie

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Quote from: ATMD on November 30, 2018, 04:55:12 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 09:20:20 AM

Of course. Present me with the evidence of God, and I will believe.

Describe what God looks like, provide testable evidence in his existence, provide means to communicate with him/her and I am in.

Instead, what we have is plenty of evidence that there is no God (or God does not care about this planet and this particular species of mammals), so yes, I am open-minded.

BTW, if God would appear in front of me right now, I would ask him: "What's up with all the hide and seek? Come closer so that I can punch your lights out for making people kill each other in your fucking name."

I know I am a better being than any God from the scriptures.

If I were able to present evidence of God, there is no need for an open mind. Even a closed mind would accept God if I can present God to him. An open mind accepts the possibility that there is God, but also accepts the possibility that there is no God. His mind is open.

You need an open mind to evaluate if the evidence presented is true.

Accepting religious stories without evidence is being gullible, not being open-minded.

You can say I don't know if a God exists.

The evidence presented in the scriptures definitely rules out the existence of those Abrahamic Gods. End of story.

If you have the evidence for any other Gods, let's hear it.

ATMD

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Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 09:20:20 AM

Of course. Present me with the evidence of God, and I will believe.

Describe what God looks like, provide testable evidence in his existence, provide means to communicate with him/her and I am in.

Instead, what we have is plenty of evidence that there is no God (or God does not care about this planet and this particular species of mammals), so yes, I am open-minded.

BTW, if God would appear in front of me right now, I would ask him: "What's up with all the hide and seek? Come closer so that I can punch your lights out for making people kill each other in your fucking name."

I know I am a better being than any God from the scriptures.

If I were able to present evidence of God, there is no need for an open mind. Even a closed mind would accept God if I can present God to him. An open mind accepts the possibility that there is God, but also accepts the possibility that there is no God. His mind is open.

af_newbie

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Quote from: ATMD on November 30, 2018, 08:45:33 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 08:42:56 AM

Quote from: ATMD on November 29, 2018, 09:47:22 PM

I think a more interesting question is, why does God hide himself from some people but not from others? We hear all these stories about personal experiences with God. How come God chooses to reveal himself in such cases?

For some people, they never had any experience at all. This is mind boggling to me.

Because some people are delusional, while others are not.

God is a mental image or a feeling. It is a product of an overactive human imagination.

I think this God concept was needed to help us survive in the magical world we saw all around us.

So, the idea of God is an evolutionary adaptation, IMHO.

It is possible, but don't you think it is better to keep an open mind?

Of course. Present me with the evidence of God, and I will believe.

Describe what God looks like, provide testable evidence in his existence, provide means to communicate with him/her and I am in.

Instead, what we have is plenty of evidence that there is no God (or God does not care about this planet and this particular species of mammals), so yes, I am open-minded.

BTW, if God would appear in front of me right now, I would ask him: "What's up with all the hide and seek? Come closer so that I can punch your lights out for making people kill each other in your fucking name."

I know I am a better being than any God from the scriptures.

Astargath

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Quote from: ATMD on November 30, 2018, 08:45:33 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 08:42:56 AM

Quote from: ATMD on November 29, 2018, 09:47:22 PM

I think a more interesting question is, why does God hide himself from some people but not from others? We hear all these stories about personal experiences with God. How come God chooses to reveal himself in such cases?

For some people, they never had any experience at all. This is mind boggling to me.

Because some people are delusional, while others are not.

God is a mental image or a feeling. It is a product of an overactive human imagination.

I think this God concept was needed to help us survive in the magical world we saw all around us.

So, the idea of God is an evolutionary adaptation, IMHO.

It is possible, but don't you think it is better to keep an open mind?

No need when there is explicit proof that the god from the bible doesn't exist.

ATMD

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Quote from: af_newbie on November 30, 2018, 08:42:56 AM

Quote from: ATMD on November 29, 2018, 09:47:22 PM

I think a more interesting question is, why does God hide himself from some people but not from others? We hear all these stories about personal experiences with God. How come God chooses to reveal himself in such cases?

For some people, they never had any experience at all. This is mind boggling to me.

Because some people are delusional, while others are not.

God is a mental image or a feeling. It is a product of an overactive human imagination.

I think this God concept was needed to help us survive in the magical world we saw all around us.

So, the idea of God is an evolutionary adaptation, IMHO.

It is possible, but don't you think it is better to keep an open mind?

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

Quote from: ATMD on November 29, 2018, 09:47:22 PM

I think a more interesting question is, why does God hide himself from some people but not from others? We hear all these stories about personal experiences with God. How come God chooses to reveal himself in such cases?

For some people, they never had any experience at all. This is mind boggling to me.

Because some people are delusional, while others are not.

God is a mental image or a feeling. It is a product of an overactive human imagination.

I think this God concept was needed to help us survive in the magical world we saw all around us.

So, the idea of God is an evolutionary adaptation, IMHO.

ATMD

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 12

I think a more interesting question is, why does God hide himself from some people but not from others? We hear all these stories about personal experiences with God. How come God chooses to reveal himself in such cases?

For some people, they never had any experience at all. This is mind boggling to me.

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

Quote from: exemplaar on November 29, 2018, 05:04:51 PM

DYOR ape man newbie.

For example you can watch and read testimonies, and stop being newbie with your stupid ignorant questions, level up already.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=I+saw+Jesus

There are billions of videos on youtube. Not one is from God himself.

Astargath

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Quote from: exemplaar on November 29, 2018, 05:04:51 PM

DYOR ape man newbie.

For example you can watch and read testimonies, and stop being newbie with your stupid ignorant questions, level up already.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=I+saw+Jesus

And you can read testimonies of people seeing aliens, ghosts, demons, bigfoot, etc etc.

exemplaar

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DYOR ape man newbie.

For example you can watch and read testimonies, and stop being newbie with your stupid ignorant questions, level up already.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=I+saw+Jesus

Topic: Why do you believe God exists? - page 13. (Read 7902 times)