Topic: Why QQ? - page 3. (Read 10991 times)

Virtually every company in the WORLD is paying somebody else to do their labor. Whether they're directly employed, hired through a temp agency, or subcontracted/freelance.

You really don't understand how business works, do you?

Wrenchmonkey, you better call Josh. You are flailing and need help.

Also:
You do not lead the markets in microprocessor design if you pay someone else to do the design for you. The people you paid for the design might lead the markets, but you are just a customer passing off someone else's expertise as your own. BFL was passing off their subcontractor's expertise in chip design as their own.

I'm completely calm. I'm just repeating certain things for you, since it clearly takes a whole lot of repetition to get through (and I'm not even sure that will work).

Now then, have you yet grasped the barely-qualifying-as-abstract-concept that we're speaking in terms of the state of affairs at the time of that news article, or do we need to go through this a few dozen more times?

Utter and complete reading comprehension fail on your part. This deserves a quadruple facepalm...

Please don't lose your marbles. Stay Calm. Please, STAY CALM! 

WAS, WAS, WAS, WAS, WAS. Are you retarded? We're talking about the state of things as they were at the time of the news article in question.

There's currently no clear-cut leader, although I think we all agree that BFL is falling behind. Once again, irrelevant to the discussion.

Is your ability to think in terms of the context of time completely broken? Who was the ASIC industry leader at the time of the article in question?

Lets put it this way, Josh has often made the point himself. (In his numerous excuses and delays)

Because they subcontracted they had less control over the schedules and often had to wait in line to get their own project done.

Therefore, the subcontracting is why June and July Jalepeno's (Bitforce 5) have only recently shipped. Almost a year later from the first pre-orders. (Rather than 2 months after the first pre-order)

Everyone else, had close ties to their manufacturing process and/or engineers. So weekends probably didn't matter.

Fair enough? (In other words are you willing (yet) to accept this reality?)

You do not lead the markets in microprocessor design if you pay someone else to do the design for you. The people you paid for the design might lead the markets, but you are just a customer passing off someone else's expertise as your own.

Yes, and motorsports are a public spectacle, whereas intellectual property tends to be a bit more guarded. 

Says who? Are you adding subjective criterion as to what defines a market leader, or are you laying out a roadmap? To be a market leader (at least temporariliy) you only have to be the first to bring a certain type of product to that market. Nothing more.

It seems that you want to drag your personal opinion of best practices on how to sustain leadership, and how to have the most 'synergistic' company, and blah, blah, blah, blah. Typical of somebody who reckons he's got all the answers about how to run a business, but has no real-world experience in doing so.


Avalon started out as a follower, back when BFL was the leader, and they later were able to move into a position of leadership. Your hindsight goggles are working marvelously. Avalon is a leader NOW, BFL was the leader THEN. Do you not see how you're having an entirely different conversation than the one at hand? We're talking about what BFL was at the time of the press release, not what they or Avalon have become since that time.


And yet they managed to assert themselves as a leader, and totally shift the direction of the entire bitcoin mining hardware industry, by doing it the way that you apparently reckon that you 'can't do that'. 


WHAT FACTS? All you've presented is more opinion (with the benefit of selective hindsight) on how they SHOULD have done things. Not on how they actually managed to do it.

We're not discussing the various ways they COULD HAVE done things differently, and perhaps REMAINED the leader, we're discussing how they started out AS the leader.

Take your roadmap for success, and go do it yourself, if you think you've got all the answers.

BFL is an industry leader?

What does that mean for Avalon or ASICMiner?

Industry PimP?

Thats what a sponsor does. They don't hide the company or people that make things happen. In fact, often they tout it.

But I assume this small argument went right over your capacity as a human being.

To be a market leader, you have to have in house engineers who know what they are doing.

Like Avalon. (See that anooyying fact?)
In this way, the products and people can come together under one roof or one unified management and the products issues are resolved quickly and on time.

Not by paying Bob in France who only works on Monday and Tuesdays, but hes occupied elsewhere and therefore must attend to his priority projects. Or working as a possible bank teller (no, this parody is very much not a joke).

I know, facts bother the mind of a shill. I should know, I am a Master BFL Shill myself.

When confronted with such issues, deflect. Always deflect. Simply comment on the color of the ground today. That will surely get your mind off that reality. Or simply get you off. One or the other.

More like Honda paying Nicky Hayden to race their motorcycles, and then declaring themselves to be a leader in motorcycle racing.

That like me paying an olympic runner to run in my race. Then state on the record that I am the fastest in the world!

Small details....you know....small details....

Furthermore.
Complete the following sentence:

If all ASICs are semiconductors, but not all semiconductors are ASICs _____

A. Only ASIC engineers can design semiconductors
B. All semiconductor engineers design ASICS
C. Some semiconductor engineers design ASICS
D. I hate BFL, so much that logic is no longer a factor to me.

And this question was so precious that I thought it deserved its own special post
Q:A: By subcontracting out the design.

As I said before, it doesn't matter whether the company directly hires an employee to do the work, or contracts through a 3rd party to complete the work on their behalf. If a building contractor doesn't drive one single nail, and instead subcontracts all of the jobs (by the way, this is how this ACTUALLY works) he's still considered the "builder".

It would take a special kind of moron to challenge a building contractor when he says something like "We're a leader in building construction," and scream "no that's bullshit, he didn't build those buildings they hired somebody else to do it!"

Please tell me you're not REALLY this stupid.

Once again, you're continuing to try to play the semantics game. ASIC design is not the same thing as FPGA design. There are different specialized skills involved with developing various components. If you as a company, don't have any individuals on your staff with this specialized skill, that doesn't mean that you're forever barred from getting into the ASIC game.

You have two options. The first one would be to hire a specialized ASIC engineer onto your staff. Now, this doesn't seem like a particularly great option, if you only need to design on ASIC. Most specialized folks are gonna be wary about being hired on to do ONE chip design. Most likely, they'll want to free-lance it, because they know that once you're done with them, they're gonna have to search for another job. So specialized guys like this don't like to go to work for a couple of months at a time for every company they design a chip for. It's not prudent for ANYBODY.

So, in order to make everybody's lives simpler, and make it so that people with specialized skills have to pick up and move every few weeks, what usually happens is that a company will crop up that says "Hey, specialized engineers, we will hire you, give you long-term employment, and benefits, or whatever. You won't have to move around. You won't have to shop for work. We'll get the clients, bring them in, you do the design, and then we'll move onto the next project.

So, say hypothetically, a company like BFL doesn't have the specialized skills to design this very specific type of chip that they need. It's not in their interest to hire a full-time chip designer, just to satisfy some nit-picky little child on an internet forum. It's in their interest to get a chip designed, and integrate it into their overall hardware design. It just so happens that there are companies who already employ specialized engineers to do this exact type of work.

What should they do? How about go hire the company that already employs those specialized engineers?

BFL still gets to be the first company to design a Bitcoin mining-specific ASIC, by farming out the work to a 3rd party, and everybody wins. Being that BFL is the first company to come up with an ASIC chip for bitcoin mining, this qualifies them as an industry leader, puts them in the lead in the race for hashing power, and establishes them as the benchmark for ASIC mining going forward.

It does not guarantee that they'll continue to be the leader. It doesn't gurantee that everybody will love them. It doesn't make them the best ASIC design company. But it DOES make them a leader in ASIC design, since they're the first company on the planet to own a Bitcoin mining ASIC. THE FIRST OF THEIR KIND. That sets them apart as leaders, son. Like it or don't.

The direct full-time employees of the company don't have to have done all (or, for that matter ANY) of the work in order for this company to still be considered the leader. It's their product. They're the first to have it. They're the leader. Period. The ins and outs of who did the physical labor is completely immaterial to the discussion, and if you're latching onto that to try and play semantics, you really are running out of ideas.

Subcontracting out all or some engineering aspects of a particular product is done ALLLLLL THEEEEE FUCKIN' TIME. And it's done by 'industry leaders' all the fuckin' time. If you aren't able to wrap your head around this concept, you've got more pressing issues than your obsessive all-consuming hatred for BFL. You should probably try getting some sun.

This thread was interesting.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/no-fcc-or-ul-label-on-bfls-jalapeno-189464