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Topic: Why QQ? - page 5. (Read 10991 times)

legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 02:40:38 PM


So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?

I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong.  Give yourself a pat on the back, it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it?

Yes. I am wrong, give me a moment to get my backpedal up to speed.

FTFY. Factsies are a downer aren't they?

What facts?

I'm asking a simple question, and you're dancing around it. Are industry leaders allowed to subcontract out, or not?

You can't be an industry leader if you don't do any work in that industry. BFL does no actual work in ASICs if they subcontract out all of the design. Therefore they cannot be industry leaders in ASIC design.

So simple a 5 year old could understand it. Too bad you are not allowed within 200 feet of schools or you could get one to explain it to you Wink

It didn't say they were industry leaders in ASIC design. It said semiconductor design, and it appears to be a statement by a 3rd party. They're clearly industry leaders in ASIC mining hardware design, or at least they were at the time of the article's publication.

Once again, are market leaders allowed to subcontract or not?

You must do work in an industry to "lead" it. BFL does no work in ASIC or semiconductor design. The people who actually designed the ASIC could be called leaders in ASIC mining hardware (if they actually lead the industry instead of Avalon & ASICMiner), but none of those people work for BFL.

You should deflect somewhere else. This one is a dead end for you.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 09, 2013, 02:33:00 PM


So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?

I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong.  Give yourself a pat on the back, it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it?

Yes. I am wrong, give me a moment to get my backpedal up to speed.

FTFY. Factsies are a downer aren't they?

What facts?

I'm asking a simple question, and you're dancing around it. Are industry leaders allowed to subcontract out, or not?

You can't be an industry leader if you don't do any work in that industry. BFL does no actual work in ASICs if they subcontract out all of the design. Therefore they cannot be industry leaders in ASIC design.

So simple a 5 year old could understand it. Too bad you are not allowed within 200 feet of schools or you could get one to explain it to you Wink

It didn't say they were industry leaders in ASIC design. It said semiconductor design, and it appears to be a statement by a 3rd party. They're clearly industry leaders in ASIC mining hardware design, or at least they were at the time of the article's publication.

Once again, are market leaders allowed to subcontract or not?
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 02:29:55 PM


So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?

I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong.  Give yourself a pat on the back, it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it?

Yes. I am wrong, give me a moment to get my backpedal up to speed.

FTFY. Factsies are a downer aren't they?

What facts?

I'm asking a simple question, and you're dancing around it. Are industry leaders allowed to subcontract out, or not?

You can't be an industry leader if you don't do any work in that industry. BFL does no actual work in ASICs if they subcontract out all of the design. Therefore they cannot be industry leaders in ASIC design.

So simple a 5 year old could understand it. Too bad you are not allowed within 200 feet of schools or you could get one to explain it to you Wink
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 09, 2013, 02:19:06 PM


So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?

I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong.  Give yourself a pat on the back, it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it?

Yes. I am wrong, give me a moment to get my backpedal up to speed.

FTFY. Factsies are a downer aren't they?

What facts?

I'm asking a simple question, and you're dancing around it. Are industry leaders allowed to subcontract out, or not?

Also, dropt, not that it's really relevant to your inane argument, but what's the origin of the cited article? Was the article written by BFL? It appears to be 3rd party statements you're nitpicking, which even further weakens your point. Regardless of whether you ACTUALLY believe that industry leaders aren't allowed to do any subcontracting.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 02:15:20 PM


So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?

I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong.  Give yourself a pat on the back, it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it?

Yes. I am wrong, give me a moment to get my backpedal up to speed.

FTFY. Factsies are a downer aren't they?
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 09, 2013, 02:11:54 PM


So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?

I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong.  Give yourself a pat on the back, it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it?

No, serious question. Are you saying that industry leaders are precluded from subcontracting? Apple will be totally bummed to hear this...
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 02:07:03 PM


So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?

I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong.  Give yourself a pat on the back, it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it?
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 09, 2013, 02:03:58 PM

[shill bullshit]

They're not ASIC engineers by trade. So what's the best thing to do when you need a product/component from a trade you don't specialize in? Find somebody who DOES specialize in that, and hire them to design that component for you. Then subcontract with another company to manufacture that component.

[more shill bullshit]


Oh, so then they were lying when they posted "Butterfly Labs (BF Labs Inc.), a market leader in microprocessor design [...]" and "The company offers a range of products and consulting services in semiconductor design."?

Sounds to me like they are ASIC designers.  Or maybe they're a bunch of fucking liars?




Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20130129102300/http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 02:00:32 PM

[shill bullshit]

They're not ASIC engineers by trade. So what's the best thing to do when you need a product/component from a trade you don't specialize in? Find somebody who DOES specialize in that, and hire them to design that component for you. Then subcontract with another company to manufacture that component.

[more shill bullshit]


Oh, so then they were lying when they posted "Butterfly Labs (BF Labs Inc.), a market leader in microprocessor design [...]" and "The company offers a range of products and consulting services in semiconductor design."?

Sounds to me like they are ASIC designers.  Or maybe they're a bunch of fucking liars?

Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20130129102300/http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

NO FAIRS! WE CALLED NO FACTSIES!!!  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 01:56:02 PM

[shill bullshit]

They're not ASIC engineers by trade. So what's the best thing to do when you need a product/component from a trade you don't specialize in? Find somebody who DOES specialize in that, and hire them to design that component for you. Then subcontract with another company to manufacture that component.

[more shill bullshit]


Oh, so then they were lying when they posted "Butterfly Labs (BF Labs Inc.), a market leader in microprocessor design [...]" and "The company offers a range of products and consulting services in semiconductor design."?

Sounds to me like they are ASIC designers.  Or maybe they're a bunch of fucking liars?




Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20130129102300/http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 09, 2013, 01:46:27 PM
Not BFL, it's sub-contractors who made the actual ASIC if I recall correctly. Everything was outsourced, as was evident from you always explaining why everything was done away from your direct control. (In stark contrast to why Avalon got things done quickly)

I quite enjoy when this fact gets brought up after BFL's monkey runs off on diatribes about how they created an ASIC. 

I quite enjoy when the trolls grasp at smaller and smaller straws, when their arguments get completely destroyed by facts and logic.

You people just keep piling on more and more totally irrelevant nonsense. Anybody who has ever run a company that does any serious manufacturing knows that sub-contracting is part of the biz. BFL started out doing FPGA miners. They're not ASIC engineers by trade. So what's the best thing to do when you need a product/component from a trade you don't specialize in? Find somebody who DOES specialize in that, and hire them to design that component for you. Then subcontract with another company to manufacture that component.

In fact, the MAJORITY of products out there are never designed, soup-to-nuts, in-house. This is a well-accepted fact in virtually EVERY industry in the world, and it's why we have a world economy in the first place. Clothing designers don't weave their own textiles. Apple doesn't build computers or iPads.  General construction-contractors don't install wiring and plumbing. Network engineers don't build their own switches, etc, etc, etc. Keep graspin', maybe you'll happen upon something substantial to hold onto... Then again, probably not.  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 01:06:37 PM
Not BFL, it's sub-contractors who made the actual ASIC if I recall correctly. Everything was outsourced, as was evident from you always explaining why everything was done away from your direct control. (In stark contrast to why Avalon got things done quickly)

I quite enjoy when this fact gets brought up after BFL's monkey runs off on diatribes about how they created an ASIC. 

^This. BFL's input to the chip design was "make it hash this much" .

It is cute to see Inaba flailing around in the thread. Why isn't he adding his "cross-domain" expertise to getting Singles and Mini-rigs working?

I do believe that Xian is under an obligation to "exhaust" attempts to resolve BFL's breach of contract without resorting to the courts.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 12:47:16 PM
Not BFL, it's sub-contractors who made the actual ASIC if I recall correctly. Everything was outsourced, as was evident from you always explaining why everything was done away from your direct control. (In stark contrast to why Avalon got things done quickly)

I quite enjoy when this fact gets brought up after BFL's monkey runs off on diatribes about how they created an ASIC. 
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 09, 2013, 10:20:10 AM
It was worth the try. ?

 I honestly can say I've never seen someone so wiling to bring legal heat upon themselves Sad This is not normal. I hope we don't disappoint him.

 All I can continue to do is shake my head in disbelief at this entire situation, and the continued taunting, disbelief, and braggadocio only serves to steel my resolve in this matter further.
Yeah tbh Xian, stop talking and pull the trigger. He clearly doesn't want to talk, let the lawyers sort it out now.

Wow, I actually agree with dogie on something, everybody is so sick of your talk, Xian. Time to STFU, and get on with it. Nobody cares. Just STFU, and go back to rewriting history, by altering your post history with that fancy blue "Edit" button.  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
June 09, 2013, 10:16:38 AM
It was worth the try. ?

 I honestly can say I've never seen someone so wiling to bring legal heat upon themselves Sad This is not normal. I hope we don't disappoint him.

 All I can continue to do is shake my head in disbelief at this entire situation, and the continued taunting, disbelief, and braggadocio only serves to steel my resolve in this matter further.
Yeah tbh Xian, stop talking and pull the trigger. He clearly doesn't want to talk, let the lawyers sort it out now.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
June 09, 2013, 09:54:58 AM
It was worth the try. ?

 I honestly can say I've never seen someone so wiling to bring legal heat upon themselves Sad This is not normal. I hope we don't disappoint him.

 All I can continue to do is shake my head in disbelief at this entire situation, and the continued taunting, hubris, and braggadocio only serves to steel my resolve in this matter further.




legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
June 09, 2013, 09:25:01 AM

You are quite certain of that, are you?  This shows that what you know is, in a word, nothing:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1157524
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1157583

This is why I say you don't know what you're talking about.  You say you are quite certain of something that is patently false, can be demonstrated to be false, yet you still maintain it as true and that you're "certain of it."  Really, the very definition of a troll.

Despite my earlier statement of not replying, I will since it appears I was incorrect.  I will not add to that any form of certainty as it's not verifiable by you or myself that there never actually was a prototype, although I'll concede that it is unlikely there ever was.

But it was verified... again, you make statements you have no idea about and pass them off as fact.  I don't recall the guys name off the top of my head, but I assure you I can locate it if need be, who flew out there to talk to Tom and to buy him out.  He reported back that Tom was drunk and avoided him, and once cornered Tom admitted there was absolutely nothing what so ever done towards actually creating an ASIC.  No prototype, NO VACCINE and NO Lt. YARR!

I'd dig up the thread(s), but we've already demonstrated you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about yet you keep talking as if you do.  Your credibility = 0 at this point.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
June 09, 2013, 02:01:26 AM
I appreciate the apology, but it's pretty hard to take seriously when, in the same post (and many others), you continue to talk up how you're going to bring about an epic lawsuit against BFL.  
Quote
I don't believe I am saying anything offensive, detrimental, uncivil, false, slanderous or libelous.
You're absolutely right, you're not.  You're just being threatening (in the legal sense).  Much like physical threats, I do not respond well to either.  Like I said, if you're going to do it, skin that hogleg and go to work; quit talking about it.  You have made your intent to initiate legal proceedings very clear, so there's nothing more to say other than "see you in court."

 The letter has not yet been sent.

 It's not too late to settle this civilly via email.

 With all due respect, I'm trying to be as reasonable and civil as possible. I am sorry you feel threatened.

 You should have no reason to feel threatened if you have done nothing wrong.

I don't feel threatened by you in any way, I said you were being threatening, that's why I'm telling you to get on with it and quit yakkin' about it.  Just because a chihuahua arches it back, grows and yips in a threatening manner at a person doesn't mean the person is threatened by the chihuahua.  Sometimes it's even cute.

 Undecided

Ok. I tried.
It was worth the try. ?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
June 09, 2013, 01:53:51 AM
I'm not opposed to the idea that you could have valid reasons for everything that has happened.  Like a majority of the people on the forum I just haven't seen it.  It seems like there are consistently unfulfilled promises, and when people point that out they get ignored, or have ad hominem thrown at them.  How can this be justified?  Because it's cool?  You're in a company man, grow up.  The people that you are talking to may be completely pissed off and unreasonable, but look at it from their point of view, they feel totally screwed with.  If you tried to explain things calmly instead of making people feel ridiculous all the time, I think you would be much better off.

Been there, tried that.  Doesn't work.  When you have inheriently irrational people like PL, Frizz, etc... who's sole purpose is to denigrate BFL, regardless of facts, truth and honesty, it doesn't matter what you say.  They will fabricate whatever information that need to make their statements.  Like I said, any time you try to get them to back up their ridiculous statements, they deflect or ignore.  Go ahead and try it... go pick out one of their ridiculous statements then get them to provide some proof or convincing evidence for their position... you'll get nothing in return.  

I would appreciate this as well. Will be helpful in the coming weeks.

Yes Xian, we've all heard, ad naseum, about how you're going to mount the awesome legal offensive against BFL.  Nobody cares, haven't you figured that out yet?  Just get on with it, all this posturing you are doing is just making you look like more of a tool than anything else.  Like someone already said, if you really had legal council, you wouldn't be posting on the forum.  You're a joke, man, move on.




Total BS.

People call you out on BS after you ask them to prove otherwise, you always ignore them when they meet your BS with the truth.

Even when threads are inconvenient on BFL forums you tar the guy who brings up the past to bite thy ass again and again.

How do you think so many people now know you for your reputations? Magic? People read, people learn, people eventually understand.

------------------------
Hopefully you don't honestly think people "are mistaken" when they think extremely negative thoughts about you or the company you represent??

 Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
June 09, 2013, 01:51:41 AM
Wrong, it's a matter of degree Inaba, someone may come right up to the peak and not make it over, whereas someone else will be just barely more prepared, and slightly less incompetent, and still make it.

Don't try to rewrite history. Tom was and is a drunk piece of shit.  He's one step away from a scummy used car salesman, nothing more.  He lied from day one about his ASIC bullshit and strung people along with no clear ability or path to delivering.  BFL has made mistakes, yes, but at least we've always had a clear path forward and we've always intended to deliver a product.  Tom... not so much.
Has anyone compiled a list of your invective?  I think that may be fun to read Cheesy  Possibly good for newbs to know before they get involved..

I would love if someone did... then there'd be a central place that I can point to and say "You're full of shit, this is what I said, not your mindless bullshit you keep peddling."  Instead, right now, people post all sorts of mindless bullshit they make up, I ask them to prove it with quotes/links and they fail and go on with their crap.  I mean, just look at any BFL thread and anything that comes out of PuertoLibre, Frizz, et al is 90% manufactured bullshit with nothing substantive to back up their ramblings, yet they keep peddling it as if it were truth.  If you try to get them to back up their claims, they become strangely silent.

Yes, please make it so!

Except, it's almost always true.

But if you say it ain't some dupes eventually will believe the company that didn't ship anything but excuses until very recently.
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