Topic: Why QQ? - page 4. (Read 10991 times)

You got it wrong again. Let me quote you the original statements.

That was your own statement that BFL does not have ASIC engineers.

Here is BFL's statement that they do:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130129102300/http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html
Butterfly Labs (BF Labs Inc.), a market leader in microprocessor design
The company offers a range of products and consulting services in semiconductor design.

Not ASIC race. Microprocessor design. How do you lead the markets in microprocessor design and offer consulting services in semiconductor design without having any ASIC engineers? Which one of you is lying?

That depends.  How would you like quantify what constitutes "leading" the ASIC race?

Click this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.966882  Read the post. The "They" you're referring to is the "We" in the post I'm linking you to for the second time.

Please refresh my memory as to what point it is you're referring to?  

Your claim:


Which, if we want to get into "facts", your assessment does not align with BFL's public statement.

As for the rest of your post.  Who are you replying to? k9? a1pha? me?

Focus man!

So, enlighten us then. Who WAS leading the ASIC race at the time of that news article?

Actually, its like digging up old statements of BFL and showing how (by comparing them with later admissions from BFL) that the earlier statements could not possibly have been true.
No DVDs or Blue Ray discs, or Apple phones, or flying cars made by Boeing were involved.

So the original doesn't get lost in Wrenchmonkey spunk:

Keep fuckin' that chicken...

*Sigh*... That's like digging up an old advertisement for the DVD format, and reading that it "offers the highest resolution and clearest picture quality available in home entertainment".

Lies, bullshit! Everybody knows that Bluray and HDDVD offer a better picture quality than DVD!

Or watching a DVRed broadcast of a motorcycle race that you already know the outcome of "Valentino Rossi is in the lead!"

"God, what a fucking liar! Rossi fell behind, and Nicky Hayden won! This just goes to show you that the mainstream media can't be trusted!"

  Really, man, you're just too much!

You are comparing claims made a year ago, to the current market today. You don't compare past statements about the state of the industry, to the state of the CURRENT industry. Compare the claims to the state of the industry at the time the claim was made, and you'll see that it's pretty irrefutable. They were the clear leader. ASICMiner didn't sell any equipment until VERY recently.

Why hasn't Inaba come to save you by sprinkling LiarDouche Powder (TM) on the thread to cover your escape?

BFL the self-proclaimed leaders in semiconductor design who have never designed a semiconductor ought to stick up for their shills better than this.
Perhaps you shills should unionize and ask for better treatment.

Analogy fail again. BFL is not a chicken. Chickens are delicious.

First off, once again, who is this mysterious "they"? You're quoting a Yahoo news article, not a person, as far as I can tell. Not that it's relevant to the point.

It doesn't matter WHAT claim you hypothetically made in my analogy, you say the analogy doesn't hold up, simply because you didn't claim to have designed the engine? OK. fine.

But why does the analogy hold up until the point of the engine? In that analogy, you didn't design ANY of it, yet you claimed to be an automotive design leader. You're willing to claim credit for being a leader in automotive design, just not in Turbine Engine design, when you haven't done ANYTHING in either field? 

Sounds to me like you're applying some arbitrary limitations on what you're willing to say somebody's allowed to claim credit on, based on your pre-defined position in the argument, rather than on simple logic. If your argument were consistent, you'd have to deny credit for being an industry leader in automotive design, if having received outside help AT ALL (let alone for EVERYTHING, as in this example).

The reality is that neither you nor I actually know the level of BFL's direct involvement in the design. Maybe they designed most of it and had outside help in finalizing it. Maybe they designed none of it at all. We don't know, and frankly, it's a moot point, because EVERY INDUSTRY subcontracts complex specialized jobs out. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. This includes the market leaders.

This includes Apple, who uses Intel's processors, and Nvidia's graphics cards, and Sharps' LCD screens, Foxconn's motherboards and assembly services...

Even IF you were directly quoting a BFL rep making a claim to be an industry leader in ASIC design, that would STILL be a factual statement, as they WERE the leaders who drove the rest of the industry to move toward ASIC design, and implementation. They single-handedly shifted the entire mining equipment industry from GPU/FPGA to ASIC, after already having been industry leaders in the FPGA mining aspect as well.

You're falling WELL short of the mark in falsifying these (unattributed, mind you) claims/statements, even on the grounds of playing petty 'semantics'.

Whether you like BFL or not, there's no denying that they are and were an industry leader in the ASIC mining arena.

But keep fuckin' that chicken, if that's what gets you off...  

Wrenchmonkey's mental gymnastics would score better if he didn't land on his face with every post.  

This is a poor example you've offered.  Apple is definitely a leader in semiconductor purchases, and it could be successfully argued that they're a semiconductor design outfit as they purchased PA Fab in 2008 (See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9926461-37.html).  So you could say that Apple could claim to be a market leader in ASIC design, but they don't, because they aren't. 

For what? The iPhone? That's an A6 designed by Apple but manufactured by Samsung.

Or do you mean for computers? Those are Intel.

Nice analogy fail. You twisted the facts just enough to make it sound almost plausible.
You earned your shill "donation" today (you are organized as a 503c right?).

I would have to claim to be an industry leader in turbine design to have lied like BFL did.

Let me remind you what they said:


I love how the BFL folks are afraid to attach their last names to their statements. Nick W. and Nasser G. So shady. 

They're the words of BFL.  See: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/announcement-asic-mining-processor-by-butterfly-labs-87934

I chose not to pick on the fact that they're a "market" leader, because it's too vague.  One could argue that the market they're referring to is the bitcoin mining market, in which case I'd concede that it was a quasi-truth at the time.  On the other hand, if the argument made is that they're a leader in SHA-256 hardware design, I'm sure if one spent the time it could easily be dismissed as a fallacy.  To better put it into perspective, compare ASICMiner with BFL.  It's my understanding that friedcat et al. designed their own chip, had it manufactured and have manufactured enough hardware to put double digit terrahash numbers onto the network.  I don't think it's necessary to pick apart Inaba's statements claiming that BFL has production facilities that dwarf any competitor when they have shipped near nothing in comparison to AM.

Whose processors are they usin' these days?

No, but if you subcontract with Boeing and Volkswagen to design a turbine-engine-powered car that can break the current world speed record, and you call your car company "K9 Motors International" and you pre-sell a million units, and it drives the entire automotive industry toward modeling your idea, and utilizing turbine engines in their vehicles, even before you deliver your first unit, "K9 Motors International" can claim to be a leader in the turbine-powered automobile industry.

Neeeeext!

This statement is true.
If I subcontract out to Volkswagen for 100% of the work designing and manufacturing my automobile, then I am not a leader in the auto industry. I merely bought a car that was the color I wanted.

This is the 5th time this question has been answered for you. Get someone with a double digit IQ to explain it to you.
Or tell BFL to hire a better shill.

I'm not deflecting. Let me get this straight. You're saying that people who subcontract don't count as part of an industry?