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Topic: WTF Avalon? Ship the Chips! - page 16. (Read 45758 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
August 05, 2013, 06:50:14 AM
Hey, you can't really blamed Yifu, because he is not the main suckers who sell you these Asic Chip, those guys who did the group buy who enticed you into buying these shitty asic chips.

Next Time Don't do group buy.

What the fuck! Can you explain what i did wrong? Are you seriously claiming i knew what will happen? Thats probably why i invested all my money into those chips too right?
I bought those chips because nothing can go wrong. I only didnt know yifu will hold the chips back.

And i called yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He wont answer. The same goes for tickets and emails.

But if you know what i can do tell me! Instead you go around and post this accusation in each thread... you probably dont even know that many groupbuy organisators invested much money for creating miners too right? They did this on purpose to lose this money... *facepalm*

I really would prefer you inform yourself before writing such nonsense.

Chill out, he's a KNCMINER shill. Just check his post history (the noob who didn't know anything about BTC who then resold early queue pre-order placement for KNCMINER miners and now is spamming all non KNCMINER threads with "we don't want pre-orders" shit).

Just put him on ignore, you're doing a fine job of looking after your GB.

No, he/she's also been in the KnC miner thread also ranting about pre-orders...
sr. member
Activity: 540
Merit: 250
BestRate.org
August 05, 2013, 06:44:07 AM
we can write Joe Lewis an mail with the latest Avalon Chips Order Status.
@Yifu, what is goin on, deliver our paid chips, now. You have earned enough Money for the fucking chips. Why you give use no information ?
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
August 05, 2013, 06:40:48 AM
Hey, you can't really blamed Yifu, because he is not the main suckers who sell you these Asic Chip, those guys who did the group buy who enticed you into buying these shitty asic chips.

Next Time Don't do group buy.

What the fuck! Can you explain what i did wrong? Are you seriously claiming i knew what will happen? Thats probably why i invested all my money into those chips too right?
I bought those chips because nothing can go wrong. I only didnt know yifu will hold the chips back.

And i called yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He wont answer. The same goes for tickets and emails.

But if you know what i can do tell me! Instead you go around and post this accusation in each thread... you probably dont even know that many groupbuy organisators invested much money for creating miners too right? They did this on purpose to lose this money... *facepalm*

I really would prefer you inform yourself before writing such nonsense.

Chill out, he's a KNCMINER shill. Just check his post history (the noob who didn't know anything about BTC who then resold early queue pre-order placement for KNCMINER miners and now is spamming all non KNCMINER threads with "we don't want pre-orders" shit).

Just put him on ignore, you're doing a fine job of looking after your GB.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
August 05, 2013, 06:30:43 AM
Hey, you can't really blamed Yifu, because he is not the main suckers who sell you these Asic Chip, those guys who did the group buy who enticed you into buying these shitty asic chips.

Next Time Don't do group buy.

What the fuck! Can you explain what i did wrong? Are you seriously claiming i knew what will happen? Thats probably why i invested all my money into those chips too right?
I bought those chips because nothing can go wrong. I only didnt know yifu will hold the chips back.

And i called yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He wont answer. The same goes for tickets and emails.

But if you know what i can do tell me! Instead you go around and post this accusation in each thread... you probably dont even know that many groupbuy organisators invested much money for creating miners too right? They did this on purpose to lose this money... *facepalm*

I really would prefer you inform yourself before writing such nonsense.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
August 05, 2013, 01:58:13 AM
Also it's unlikely any court will call bitcoin currency and since they won't you don't have "valuable consideration" in any bitcoin for goods contract.  That's why in a lot of purchase contracts there still is a token fiat amount included as consideration just to have it be valid.  That's nothing considering the bigger hurdle of proving that any legal person (living or corporate) can actually "own" a bitcoin address that received the transfers.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 05, 2013, 01:34:57 AM
Asset Retrieval is not entirely out of the question. Namely one if you file a civil suit claiming fraud (criminal) you can go after this guys personal assets and the corporate veil would be made meaningless. From what I understand a criminal act (in this case fraud) would in sense lift any protections an LLC would provide to the members.

Well, if there's a $200 million dollar investment the question is moot, as they can easily settle any lawsuits.

However, the point I was making is that you can't seize bitcoin unless someone hands over their crypto key or agrees to make a transaction.  A judge can order them to do it, and they can simply skip the country and refuse if they want.

People talking about suing bitcoin businesses are missing a key aspect of bitcoin. unlike traditional currency and property you can't just file a lein on their property or garnish their wages/bank accounts.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
August 05, 2013, 01:29:44 AM
You all keep using BTC as a payment system you'll keep getting burned.  What kind of a brain deficiency does it take to send multiple 100K of non refundable, non traceable, anonymous crypto currency, and of all places to China and hope it will all be ok.  
ROFL  
BTC is a poor online payment system and especially so for anything delayed because eventually any operation will become if not an outright fraud then a basically a not what you ordered or when you wanted it since there will always come a point where 95% of BTC received is more profitable to fuck around with then the 5% profit margin of any business.

Why are you here then?

Agreed, it's stupid.  The only reason bitcoin has any value is that it can be used as a payment system. Of course, for very small transactions that you don't mind losing out on, it's much better then CCs/Paypal.

Plus, people in the bitcoin mining business are likely to have a lot of bitcoin sitting around, and it's much easier to just use send it directly as opposed to selling it on an exchange, waiting for the cash, and then doing a traditional transaction along with all the fees and costs.

What's needed are 3rd party systems built on top of bitcoin that handle things like refunds.
I had an epiphany regarding bitcoin a while ago when a guy next to me at a bank was trying to get money from his account to pay for a purchase from someone else.  It was a large amount but not crazy.  You should've seen the hassles.  "If we give you this much cash you have to fill out a tax form.  Why yes we can make you a bank check instead but when you come with the seller to the bank we can't cash it for him.  Why the Fuck not?  It's over our cashing limit.  It's my money I just want to pay him."  Bitcoin is a wealth storage and wealth transfer system without the banks or anyone else looking over your shoulder telling you how you should store or transfer it.  It is a system where your account can be in your head for any amount one or one million.  What it isn't good for is sending strangers transfers of huge amounts and hoping for the best.  Why re-invent the wheel?  There already are plenty of systems that handle refunds.  It's called a credit card, or PayPal, or for cases of international commerce in large amounts a Letter of Credit.  Funds are frozen for the seller from the buyer.  Items get checked at the port of entree for correct delivery and the seller gets their money.  BTW creating 3rd parties holding btc in escrow will just get escrows running with the BTC instead of sellers.  No difference.  You got something I want, awesome we'll figure out a way to transact with BTC or otherwise.  Use a little risk acessment, that's what you are supposed to do with real money anyways.  You got something I want maybe in two months.  Call me in two months.  This isn't kickstarter FFS.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
August 04, 2013, 09:46:36 PM
Psst!!! Where are the chips? Huh
legendary
Activity: 1062
Merit: 1003
August 04, 2013, 09:36:56 PM
There has been all sorts of misreported FUD on Avalon this weekend.  Seems to be based around a misreported story about a different "Avalon" but hard to tell if the link above is a continuation of that

This thread debunks the USD200M investment story
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/everyone-get-ready-to-sue-avalon-268081
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
August 04, 2013, 09:31:38 PM
The fuu*k this is happening? Wow, apparently Yifu hasn't been idling away opportunity!!

This is either the worst thing that can happen to Bitcoin and centralisation, or it's an act of genius...in any case I hope dodgy finance that contributed to the crash and manipulation of fiat currency is not involved in this deal.

Interesting times. Let's hope for the best...
full member
Activity: 177
Merit: 100
August 04, 2013, 09:30:44 PM
Quote from: WSJ


Mr. Guo couldn't be reached for comment.


Yeah, I think we know the feeling.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
August 04, 2013, 09:26:51 PM
Maybe this deal has been taking all of Yifu's time and he has been too busy to ship the chips.
Maybe Mr. Lewis can get Yifu a paid helper.
Sign the deal ship our chips!
legendary
Activity: 1062
Merit: 1003
August 04, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
Hey, you can't really blamed Yifu, because he is not the main suckers who sell you these Asic Chip, those guys who did the group buy who enticed you into buying these shitty asic chips.

Next Time Don't do group buy.

umm..we sure can blame Yifu!  For the chips which have been delivered Zefir (being the only organizer delivered to so far) has acted exemplary.

I disagree with the racist rants against Yifu but I think it's comical that he is pursuing 2nd gen chip technology when he will have no customers to pawn them to.

However, going by the only invest what you can afford to lose rule, I'm still fine if I only make my money back. I took an acknowledged risk by investing in a non-100% guaranteed product (even tho 10 weeks should be 10 weeks). But once burned twice shy, no more Avalon for me..
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
August 04, 2013, 09:09:51 PM
Psst... where are the chips?
sr. member
Activity: 358
Merit: 250
August 04, 2013, 09:08:27 PM
from the speculation thread, published by wall street journal online, maybe make you guys feel better?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323997004578644491403250124.html
not sure how to get full article, i just copied and pasted from the observer thread in speculation

Joe Lewis, a billionaire foreign-exchange trader who teamed up with hedge-fund manager George Soros in 1992 to bet against the Bank of England, is the latest high-profile financier to throw his weight behind the virtual currency called bitcoin.

Mr. Lewis leads the Phoenix Fund, a Zurich-based private-equity fund that on Tuesday plans to invest $200 million in Avalon, a company that makes computer servers aimed at creating bitcoins, according to people familiar with the situation.

Bitcoin is a virtual currency that exists online and isn't backed by any government or central bank. Bitcoins were invented in 2008 by a computer programmer who goes by the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto, who describes it as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system.

Joe Lewis's Phoenix Fund is investing in a bitcoin company.

The Phoenix Fund's investment in Avalon reflects the growing popularity of virtual currencies, which are also coming under scrutiny from regulators. Other bitcoin enthusiasts include Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, who are best known for their role in the creation of Facebook Inc. FB +1.50% They have proposed an exchange-traded fund that is tied to bitcoins.

Bitcoins are created through a process called mining, in which computers solve complex mathematical algorithms to earn the bitcoins. The total number of bitcoins that can be mined is limited to 21 million. There are now about 11.5 million bitcoins in circulation, according to Blockchain, a website that monitors bitcoin transactions.

The Phoenix deal will also involve Taiwanese microchip maker Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., 2330.TW +0.50% which is set to supply the state-of-the-art microchips that will power the hardware.

The Phoenix Fund was set up this year to invest in bitcoin mining-hardware companies. It looked at several of Avalon's rivals in the sector, including Butterfly Labs and KnCMiner but decided against investing, according to a person familiar with the private-equity firm's strategy.

Investors in the Phoenix Fund, which includes a small number of individuals who made their fortunes in currency trading, believe that the currency will become more stable and popular if more parties are involved in the mining process, this person said.

Mr. Lewis moved into currency trading in the 1980s and 1990s. In September 1992, Mr. Lewis teamed up with Mr. Soros to bet on sterling crashing out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, an event that was later named "Black Wednesday." Mr. Lewis didn't respond to a request for comment.

Mr. Lewis had big losses investing in U.S. brokerage firm Bear Stearns Cos, in which he began amassing a stake during 2007, The Wall Street Journal reported at the time.

Mr. Lewis is the main investor in an unlisted company called Tavistock Group, which has investments in more than 200 companies across the globe.

Tavistock Group includes ENIC Group, which has a Bahamas-registered subsidiary called ENIC International Ltd., through which Mr. Lewis owns 85% of the shares in U.K. soccer club Tottenham Hotspur.

The Phoenix Fund is independent of Tavistock.

The bitcoin deal was put together by Andrew Laurus, a former government-bonds salesman at Lehman Brothers who is also an investor in the fund. Avalon was set up by Yifu Guo, a pioneer in the bitcoin-mining industry. He was part of the team that developed the first ASIC bitcoin mining hardware. ASIC stands for application-specific integrated circuit, a type of custom-designed microchip. Mr. Guo couldn't be reached for comment.

Separately, Coinflash, a company that planned to set up kiosks for bitcoin enthusiasts to buy the virtual currency, is shutting down before it even opened its doors. "Due to an unforeseen change in our personal circumstances, we've made the difficult decision to suspend Coinflash's services indefinitely," the San Diego-based company said in an email statement.

Coinflash was established earlier this year and had planned to open the bitcoin kiosks in California and New York this summer.

As part of the deal, Avalon will gain access to TSMC microchips based on 20-nanometer processes, which are much faster than other chips. TSMC recently won a contract to supply chips to Apple. The increased processing power should give Avalon an edge in solving the algorithms that control the supply of bitcoins.
eve
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 04, 2013, 09:07:38 PM
Hey, you can't really blamed Yifu, because he is not the main suckers who sell you these Asic Chip, those guys who did the group buy who enticed you into buying these shitty asic chips.

Next Time Don't do group buy.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
August 04, 2013, 09:03:10 PM
* ionstorm hits the panic button.

Were screwed.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
August 04, 2013, 08:58:28 PM
Asset Retrieval is not entirely out of the question. Namely one if you file a civil suit claiming fraud (criminal) you can go after this guys personal assets and the corporate veil would be made meaningless. From what I understand a criminal act (in this case fraud) would in sense lift any protections an LLC would provide to the members.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 255
August 04, 2013, 08:26:44 PM
BitPay?
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 04, 2013, 08:25:09 PM
You all keep using BTC as a payment system you'll keep getting burned.  What kind of a brain deficiency does it take to send multiple 100K of non refundable, non traceable, anonymous crypto currency, and of all places to China and hope it will all be ok.  
ROFL  
BTC is a poor online payment system and especially so for anything delayed because eventually any operation will become if not an outright fraud then a basically a not what you ordered or when you wanted it since there will always come a point where 95% of BTC received is more profitable to fuck around with then the 5% profit margin of any business.

Why are you here then?

Agreed, it's stupid.  The only reason bitcoin has any value is that it can be used as a payment system. Of course, for very small transactions that you don't mind losing out on, it's much better then CCs/Paypal.

Plus, people in the bitcoin mining business are likely to have a lot of bitcoin sitting around, and it's much easier to just use send it directly as opposed to selling it on an exchange, waiting for the cash, and then doing a traditional transaction along with all the fees and costs.

What's needed are 3rd party systems built on top of bitcoin that handle things like refunds.
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