[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1596.

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 11:58:40 AM

This is a very reassuring thing to read. Particularly this "mandatory participation in anonymity sets" i am very strongly in favor of. What sort of mixin minimums are you guys thinking of at this time? it seems like a mixin count of 2 or greater would probably get the job done well enough and be a good trade off where as mixin 1 is probably too low.

We're trying to model deanonymizing attack vectors on the network right now with some math grads, but at least mixin >= 1.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: tacotime on July 25, 2014, 11:47:00 AM

Quote from: dga on July 25, 2014, 11:39:13 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 11:21:43 AM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

Actually, that's an interesting bigger-picture question.

Is the network stronger if an anonymous technology is used for all transactions, where a fraction of them are deliberately made transparent;

or is the network stronger if BTC is used for transparent transactions and XMR/BBR/foo is used only for anonymous transactions?

My concern about the latter is guilt-by-association. We know, for example, that the NSA archives permanently all encrypted data, but (publicly says) that it does not retain certain classes of unencrypted data.

One or two anonymous transactions per minute may be much more easily traced via traffic analysis than 1000 anonymous transactions per minute mixed together with 10 deanonymized transactions. This is based, admittedly, on the assumption that people who don't carefully ask the question of whether they want anonymity will default to BTC.

We're working now to add better privacy features, like mandatory participation in anonymity sets, a proper I2P protocol for transaction submission to network nodes, and more elaborate methods of transferring funds that obfuscate transaction submission time to the network and transaction destinations.

Of course, if the NSA is sitting sniffing your personal packets off your network, there may not be a lot to help you at the current time. Other persons are working on some censorship free networks for the near future, and there are becoming better ways to enter the internet using physical cash. Privacy online is a difficult thing to achieve.

This is a very reassuring thing to read. Particularly this "mandatory participation in anonymity sets" i am very strongly in favor of. What sort of mixin minimums are you guys thinking of at this time? it seems like a mixin count of 2 or greater would probably get the job done well enough and be a good trade off where as mixin 1 is probably too low.

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

Quote from: dga on July 25, 2014, 11:39:13 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 11:21:43 AM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

Actually, that's an interesting bigger-picture question.

Is the network stronger if an anonymous technology is used for all transactions, where a fraction of them are deliberately made transparent;

or is the network stronger if BTC is used for transparent transactions and XMR/BBR/foo is used only for anonymous transactions?

My concern about the latter is guilt-by-association. We know, for example, that the NSA archives permanently all encrypted data, but (publicly says) that it does not retain certain classes of unencrypted data.

One or two anonymous transactions per minute may be much more easily traced via traffic analysis than 1000 anonymous transactions per minute mixed together with 10 deanonymized transactions. This is based, admittedly, on the assumption that people who don't carefully ask the question of whether they want anonymity will default to BTC.

We're working now to add better privacy features, like mandatory participation in anonymity sets, a proper I2P protocol for transaction submission to network nodes, and more elaborate methods of transferring funds that obfuscate transaction submission time to the network and transaction destinations.

Of course, if the NSA is sitting sniffing your personal packets off your network, there may not be a lot to help you at the current time. Other persons are working on some censorship free networks for the near future, and there are becoming better ways to enter the internet using physical cash. Privacy online is a difficult thing to achieve.

digicoin

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Quicken on July 25, 2014, 04:51:27 AM

Quote from: Brad_BCK on July 25, 2014, 04:39:17 AM

BTW, why did someone create this release?
What for?
What is his goal?

Who knows. There are a lot of 'rival' coins like DRK and BCN that feel very threatened by Monero, and for good reason.

Beware the trolls/FUD'ers. Here's my current list from this thread:
Rinndaranaur
digitalninja81
titan86
Vilawil
HolyTrumpet
dNote
Hexah
Mumbles
Rias

Ignore DRK and BCN trollers Wink

Have you filled XMR survey?

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JqIXkjKpcEpv6lyH6SD22f_Ny0i-rhM9bV21WcOFstw/viewform

Survey summary https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JqIXkjKpcEpv6lyH6SD22f_Ny0i-rhM9bV21WcOFstw/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm

dga

hero member

Activity: 737

Merit: 511

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 11:21:43 AM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

Actually, that's an interesting bigger-picture question.

Is the network stronger if an anonymous technology is used for all transactions, where a fraction of them are deliberately made transparent;

or is the network stronger if BTC is used for transparent transactions and XMR/BBR/foo is used only for anonymous transactions?

My concern about the latter is guilt-by-association. We know, for example, that the NSA archives permanently all encrypted data, but (publicly says) that it does not retain certain classes of unencrypted data.

One or two anonymous transactions per minute may be much more easily traced via traffic analysis than 1000 anonymous transactions per minute mixed together with 10 deanonymized transactions. This is based, admittedly, on the assumption that people who don't carefully ask the question of whether they want anonymity will default to BTC.

BTCwriter

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

All can vote for Monero here;
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-what-anonymous-coin-will-succed-568166

or you can vote for StealthCoin Grin

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

eizh

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

Rias, that is not from any of us. I wonder how you just happen to have a URL for something so obscure and clearly fake.

In any case, I'm delighted that trolls care enough to make fake press releases. But this one is a little too transparent. In the future, try to aim for more realism so that at least some might fall for it.

Brad_BCK

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

BTW this is the 3rd page, where we discuss this article...

Its creators got what they wanted to get.
Today everyone in this thread saw this article.

kbm

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 10:02:22 AM

And going back to the strange press release on Monero.

Quote from: dreamspark on July 25, 2014, 09:04:25 AM

You keep reffering to the promotion that the XMR team does but there really isn't any promotion coming from the XMR team.

How come? David Latapie (core team member) mentions the following in his recent interview: http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

Quote

We hired marketing agencies to spread the word

Or should I believe that this interview was also fabricated by some random community members? Huh

A news article about Monero from a reliable source, with an interview from someone from the dev team .. who will admit to having the interview? Must be fabricated by the community! The horror!

Rias

sr. member

Activity: 373

Merit: 250

And going back to the strange press release on Monero.

Quote from: dreamspark on July 25, 2014, 09:04:25 AM

You keep reffering to the promotion that the XMR team does but there really isn't any promotion coming from the XMR team.

How come? David Latapie (core team member) mentions the following in his recent interview: http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

Quote

We hired marketing agencies to spread the word

Or should I believe that this interview was also fabricated by some random community members? Huh

Brad_BCK

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 09:03:15 AM

I'm being trolled by 2 sock puppet accounts, how nice.

Brad_BCK - Newbie - Activity: 28

Heh. Forum status doesn't mean anything. I do not like this forum cuz too much scammers, bots and trolls here.
I post in this thread only because I am interested in trading with XMR.
And this thread is the only place in the internet where I can get feedback from XMR users.
Am I right?

I just said my opinion about an "article".
I did not even try to troll you.
If you do not like my posts just ignore me.

kbm

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 09:14:22 AM

Quote from: binaryFate on July 25, 2014, 09:08:39 AM

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 09:03:15 AM

amazing text

You post crappy FUD. You don't ask relevant or interesting question, you are an obvious stupid hater and you troll very very badly. You're not even good at it, seriously. I hope nobody's paying you to discredit XMR, because the way you do it, that would be 100% wasted money.

Do you really want to discuss it here? Nice!
Could it somehow be that the reason I'm bad at trolling is that I'm not trying to troll? Can't I express my real opinion instead? Is it prohibited by XMR core team? Is it the target for newbie bot accounts to discredit freedom of speech (not pointing at you currently)?

What can be done to make you happy?

-The underlying software is being worked on
-The price is just fine, and liquid
-People come here and post every day
-Word is spreading every day

. . .and you make a point to overexaggerate anything that can be used as an edge .. you're literally the first person in line with a pitchfork and a torch at the drop of a hat.

You make an illogical assumption that the developers have released a press release that totally makes them look scummy (literally nobody on the dev team would logically do this IMO - but you'd know that if you talked to a couple of them a little bit), after you flip out over literally two characters in code. Monero is shaping up to be something nobody thought it could have been three months ago and things seem insanely tense because of that .. but what more do you want?

Do you really think that someone on the dev team would go and release that right after this was said in a coin source article?

Quote from: Coins Source

Is a negative response towards anonymous currencies from governments and law enforcement a threat to Monero? How will Monero respond to criticism of anonymity?

David – First by not being anonymous if you don’t want to. Monero is private by default, optionally transparent (just like cash!) – the details of individual transactions, or even of an entire wallet, can be revealed publicly or privately. Plus, the developpers are publicly accessible. You can Google my name and the French and South Africa governments could knock at our door if they need someone to talk to. We play fair with everyone, governments included.

Or are you just looking for something to rage about? Really, what do you want out of this?

Rias

sr. member

Activity: 373

Merit: 250

I could go on into counter-trolling you, mr. bot operator.

However, I deeply apologize for this offtopic and will depart.

Quicken

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Below is an example of a typical Rias FUD post. I will stop feeding the troll now.

Quote from: Rias on July 23, 2014, 10:25:28 AM

[snip]

Thanks to the XMR devs the payments are order of magnitude faster at losing user's money. So lol.

Quicken

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 09:03:15 AM

I'm being trolled by 2 sock puppet accounts, how nice.

Quicken - Newbie - Activity: 21
Brad_BCK - Newbie - Activity: 28

I do think that XMR team does marvellous job on promoting Monero. I do respect the core team.
However, I raise crucial questions (and if we take e.g. botnet issue it should have bothered you too, if you were a real user). And I really don't like it when people brag too much.

If that is what's required to be make it to the first post of XMR thread, it will be a great honor.

LoL. Who's bragging?

I'm just an independent investor and I have placed a good chunk of savings in XMR as a medium/long term investment. The reason? I think the base technology, fair emission system, community, and development team warrant that investment. I am also mining XMR in my own modest way.

Yes, I haven't posted much here because firstly XMR was the first Cryptocurrency I decided to invest in, second I have only been here 6 weeks and 3rd I spend more time reading than posting as I am still learning. Most of my posts are questions. However, I do read every post.

My Fudder/Troll list is based on complete lack of constructive input to the thread. Congratulations for making it on there.

Rias

sr. member

Activity: 373

Merit: 250

Quote from: binaryFate on July 25, 2014, 09:08:39 AM

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 09:03:15 AM

amazing text

You post crappy FUD. You don't ask relevant or interesting question, you are an obvious stupid hater and you troll very very badly. You're not even good at it, seriously. I hope nobody's paying you to discredit XMR, because the way you do it, that would be 100% wasted money.

Do you really want to discuss it here? Nice!
Could it somehow be that the reason I'm bad at trolling is that I'm not trying to troll? Can't I express my real opinion instead? Is it prohibited by XMR core team? Is it the target for newbie bot accounts to discredit freedom of speech (not pointing at you currently)?

coinfinder000

full member

Activity: 350

Merit: 100

Swipe

Quote from: Erik Goff on July 25, 2014, 08:30:42 AM

Monero passed darkcoin today on the coingecko.com ranking

6th position now (5 to go lol)

Well done everyone , to a bright future !

Congratulations! I'll hold my coins for long time investment.

binaryFate

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1012

Still wild and free

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 09:03:15 AM

some crap

You post crappy FUD. You don't ask relevant or interesting question, you are an obvious stupid hater and you troll very very badly. You're not even good at it, seriously. I hope nobody's paying you to discredit XMR, because the way you do it, that would be 100% wasted money.

dreamspark

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 08:56:14 AM

Quote from: fluffypony on July 25, 2014, 03:59:09 AM

Quote from: Rias on July 25, 2014, 03:57:05 AM

Hey guys, I have a huge question to XMR promo team and their actions.

Could you answer why your PR agency publishes a very controversial press release with a confusing email at the bottom?
http://www.pressat.co.uk/releases/nys-45-days-to-exchange-your-bitcoin-for-monero-4a505fd85756055adbab096249001371/

Quote

[email protected]

Amazing!
Isn't it called scam to mislead the investors that your promo campaign is endorsed by Department of Financial Services?

That's nothing to do with us, we have not released any press releases. We can't control what other people do or force anyone not to do something.

Edit: also, there is no "XMR promo team". There is the core team, whose job is to advance XMR primarily from a technical perspective. There are contributors, who are almost entirely devoted to either contributing code to Monero, or to building related projects. We have neither the time, the money, nor the time to do ANY sort of promoting at this stage. In future when we have achieved a modicum of maturity and ease-of-use, sure, but right now it would be wasted effort.

That's very convenient position, I must admit. If you're not standing behind this press releases, than who does? Why could it came out the same day as XMR markets on Poloniex? Just a coincidence?

I may be totally wrong, but the story with this article stinks for me. I highly doubt that XMR is already that noticable to make some random people create fake press releases targeted at investors.

Oh I dunno wise guy, maybe even the guy who added the XMR markets Roll Eyes

Could be busoni for all you know or any others of the few people who knew it was going to happen. Fact is it wasn't the core dev team( you must have missed the part where they dont actaully hold that much XMR).

What about this guy https://twitter.com/BitcoinAnalyst/status/492305967795544064

What about all the whales who have been buying it up over the last few months or the big miners, fact is you look asinine trying to pin this on the "XMR promo team", firstly because there isnt one and secondly because the devs have said time and time again they dont want to do any marketing until the core of the project is refactored, usable and stable. Simple.

You keep reffering to the promotion that the XMR team does but there really isn't any promotion coming from the XMR team.

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1596. (Read 4670972 times)