[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1595.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: fluffypony on July 25, 2014, 03:39:32 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 12:21:43 PM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

As dga has already pointed out, you don't want to create a scenario where guilt-by-association exists. Monero's privacy is a feature, but it's not the only feature.

David's quote is misleading, he didn't mean that regulators can magically peer into the blockchain and trace transactions. He meant that in a situation where you run a charity, for instance, you would publish the viewkey along with some form of per-tx signature so regulators concerned with ensuring charities are run appropriately can peek into your books and see your accounts. Another use-case could be for a company to let its accountants, bookkeepers, and exco have visibility on the account and on the movement of funds. Or a married couple that want a shared account.

Monero is private by default, transparent optional. The choice of whether privacy is relinquished for a particular wallet is the user's and the user's alone.

Doesnt this impose a cost on people who want privacy? Having some of the network activity revealed allows concerned entities to deduce other information more easily. For example say you have a ring signature with 2 parties and the other party reveals which input is his, now they have deduced who the other participant is (atleast they have deduced his pseudonym, still not a good thing). This means that inorder to regain their privacy, people who want privacy now have to use a higher mixin count to achieve the same thing.

It seems to me that, unless this evaluation is totally wrong, this charity should just use bitcoin.

Joshuar

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

eidoo wallet

Quote from: fluffypony on July 25, 2014, 03:39:32 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 12:21:43 PM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

As dga has already pointed out, you don't want to create a scenario where guilt-by-association exists. Monero's privacy is a feature, but it's not the only feature.

David's quote is misleading, he didn't mean that regulators can magically peer into the blockchain and trace transactions. He meant that in a situation where you run a charity, for instance, you would publish the viewkey along with some form of per-tx signature so regulators concerned with ensuring charities are run appropriately can peek into your books and see your accounts. Another use-case could be for a company to let its accountants, bookkeepers, and exco have visibility on the account and on the movement of funds. Or a married couple that want a shared account.

Monero is private by default, transparent optional. The choice of whether privacy is relinquished for a particular wallet is the user's and the user's alone.

I'm glad to see this. Having options is better than having none

dga

hero member

Activity: 737

Merit: 511

Noodle, wolf0, or others who've hacked on CryptoNight -- did I capture the salient points in this, or would you change anything?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yoovsi0gk9n88a/cryptonight_tmp.pdf

(Figure showing the basic processing steps in the inner loop of CryptoNight).

fluffypony

donator

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1060

GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 12:21:43 PM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

As dga has already pointed out, you don't want to create a scenario where guilt-by-association exists. Monero's privacy is a feature, but it's not the only feature.

David's quote is misleading, he didn't mean that regulators can magically peer into the blockchain and trace transactions. He meant that in a situation where you run a charity, for instance, you would publish the viewkey along with some form of per-tx signature so regulators concerned with ensuring charities are run appropriately can peek into your books and see your accounts. Another use-case could be for a company to let its accountants, bookkeepers, and exco have visibility on the account and on the movement of funds. Or a married couple that want a shared account.

Monero is private by default, transparent optional. The choice of whether privacy is relinquished for a particular wallet is the user's and the user's alone.

fluffypony

donator

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1060

GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

Quote from: Mumbles on July 25, 2014, 02:03:41 PM

So...lets see if I understand this correctly...

1) You have a ton of alt coins already...but you want to borrow more
2) You have hundreds of thousands in transactions in poker but you can't affort $500 to $1200 worth of some other alt coins?
3) You have been trading for 7 months, yet don't have enough money for your trading.

Got it. Where can I send you money? I would like to be part of this right away! Shocked

lol - he reminds me so much of this dude: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/confession-of-a-degenerate-642090

jwinterm

legendary

Activity: 3136

Merit: 1116

Quote from: Mumbles on July 25, 2014, 02:03:41 PM

So...lets see if I understand this correctly...

1) You have a ton of alt coins already...but you want to borrow more
2) You have hundreds of thousands in transactions in poker but you can't affort $500 to $1200 worth of some other alt coins?
3) You have been trading for 7 months, yet don't have enough money for your trading.

Got it. Where can I send you money? I would like to be part of this right away! Shocked

lols, my thoughts exactly Mumbles...why not just claim you're a nigerian prince who enjoys trading alts?

Mumbles

newbie

Activity: 50

Merit: 0

So...lets see if I understand this correctly...

1) You have a ton of alt coins already...but you want to borrow more
2) You have hundreds of thousands in transactions in poker but you can't affort $500 to $1200 worth of some other alt coins?
3) You have been trading for 7 months, yet don't have enough money for your trading.

Got it. Where can I send you money? I would like to be part of this right away! Shocked

Quote from: Glandoux on July 24, 2014, 09:38:51 PM

Hi,

I have been day trading alts since January and have made a bot to do all my work. I am not really interested in investing in any new coins as I already have too much in alts at the moment and not trading some of the more popular is also wasted money.

This is what I am offering anyone interested. If you loan me your coins (I only need about 1-2BTC worth) I will use them to trade and give you 35% of profits from the coins. Yes I understand that there will be a lot of people saying that this is a scam and so on and so forth but I have a lot of backing. In the poker community I have done hundred of thousands of dollars in transactions with a flawless record and am fairly well known. I just do not wish to invest anymore BTCs in alts that I do not know enough about. I have also borrowed with interest (and paid back fully) about 100 BTCs for trading purposes when the volume was about 20x what it is now.

If anyone is interested please PM me, the three coins I currently am not trading that I would be looking for are the following:

CLOAK
XMR
SYNC

So please PM me if interested, if you post in this coin thread I may miss your post.

Thanks

digicoin

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1000

Quote from: uvt9 on July 25, 2014, 01:52:33 PM

Current price and volume of BCN would be the best explanation for the behavior of some BCN butthurt in this very thread Grin

BCN is dead. XMR is the de facto standard for CryptoNote coins just by looking at BCN/XMR parings on Poloniex (similar to [YourCoinHere]/BTC)

Mumbles

newbie

Activity: 50

Merit: 0

I'll take that bet. How many XMR/BTC do you want to bet? And what type of DAC do we want to use as the basis for the bet?

Quote from: David Latapie on July 24, 2014, 05:32:30 PM

But with Monero, I bet it will be much easier.

Mumbles

newbie

Activity: 50

Merit: 0

Whoever said that is either a complete idiot or a liar. Ethereum is a platform that can run autonomous corporations and even create other currencies on top of it. Monero is just a (quite nice) currency.

Quote from: David Latapie on July 24, 2014, 04:36:38 PM

Quote from: bigj on July 23, 2014, 01:44:27 AM

- Will ETH be a threat to Monero?

Peter Todd said "everything Ethereum can do, Bitcoin can copy it". This holds even "truer" with Monero.

I guess this answers your question.

uvt9

sr. member

Activity: 300

Merit: 250

Current price and volume of BCN would be the best explanation for the behavior of some BCN butthurt in this very thread Grin

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 12:58:40 PM

This is a very reassuring thing to read. Particularly this "mandatory participation in anonymity sets" i am very strongly in favor of. What sort of mixin minimums are you guys thinking of at this time? it seems like a mixin count of 2 or greater would probably get the job done well enough and be a good trade off where as mixin 1 is probably too low.

We're trying to model deanonymizing attack vectors on the network right now with some math grads, but at least mixin >= 1.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: tacotime on July 25, 2014, 12:47:00 PM

Quote from: dga on July 25, 2014, 12:39:13 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 12:21:43 PM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

Actually, that's an interesting bigger-picture question.

Is the network stronger if an anonymous technology is used for all transactions, where a fraction of them are deliberately made transparent;

or is the network stronger if BTC is used for transparent transactions and XMR/BBR/foo is used only for anonymous transactions?

My concern about the latter is guilt-by-association. We know, for example, that the NSA archives permanently all encrypted data, but (publicly says) that it does not retain certain classes of unencrypted data.

One or two anonymous transactions per minute may be much more easily traced via traffic analysis than 1000 anonymous transactions per minute mixed together with 10 deanonymized transactions. This is based, admittedly, on the assumption that people who don't carefully ask the question of whether they want anonymity will default to BTC.

We're working now to add better privacy features, like mandatory participation in anonymity sets, a proper I2P protocol for transaction submission to network nodes, and more elaborate methods of transferring funds that obfuscate transaction submission time to the network and transaction destinations.

Of course, if the NSA is sitting sniffing your personal packets off your network, there may not be a lot to help you at the current time. Other persons are working on some censorship free networks for the near future, and there are becoming better ways to enter the internet using physical cash. Privacy online is a difficult thing to achieve.

This is a very reassuring thing to read. Particularly this "mandatory participation in anonymity sets" i am very strongly in favor of. What sort of mixin minimums are you guys thinking of at this time? it seems like a mixin count of 2 or greater would probably get the job done well enough and be a good trade off where as mixin 1 is probably too low.

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

Quote from: dga on July 25, 2014, 12:39:13 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 12:21:43 PM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

Actually, that's an interesting bigger-picture question.

Is the network stronger if an anonymous technology is used for all transactions, where a fraction of them are deliberately made transparent;

or is the network stronger if BTC is used for transparent transactions and XMR/BBR/foo is used only for anonymous transactions?

My concern about the latter is guilt-by-association. We know, for example, that the NSA archives permanently all encrypted data, but (publicly says) that it does not retain certain classes of unencrypted data.

One or two anonymous transactions per minute may be much more easily traced via traffic analysis than 1000 anonymous transactions per minute mixed together with 10 deanonymized transactions. This is based, admittedly, on the assumption that people who don't carefully ask the question of whether they want anonymity will default to BTC.

We're working now to add better privacy features, like mandatory participation in anonymity sets, a proper I2P protocol for transaction submission to network nodes, and more elaborate methods of transferring funds that obfuscate transaction submission time to the network and transaction destinations.

Of course, if the NSA is sitting sniffing your personal packets off your network, there may not be a lot to help you at the current time. Other persons are working on some censorship free networks for the near future, and there are becoming better ways to enter the internet using physical cash. Privacy online is a difficult thing to achieve.

digicoin

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Quicken on July 25, 2014, 05:51:27 AM

Quote from: Brad_BCK on July 25, 2014, 05:39:17 AM

BTW, why did someone create this release?
What for?
What is his goal?

Who knows. There are a lot of 'rival' coins like DRK and BCN that feel very threatened by Monero, and for good reason.

Beware the trolls/FUD'ers. Here's my current list from this thread:
Rinndaranaur
digitalninja81
titan86
Vilawil
HolyTrumpet
dNote
Hexah
Mumbles
Rias

Ignore DRK and BCN trollers Wink

Have you filled XMR survey?

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JqIXkjKpcEpv6lyH6SD22f_Ny0i-rhM9bV21WcOFstw/viewform

Survey summary https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JqIXkjKpcEpv6lyH6SD22f_Ny0i-rhM9bV21WcOFstw/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm

dga

hero member

Activity: 737

Merit: 511

Quote from: Anon136 on July 25, 2014, 12:21:43 PM

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

Actually, that's an interesting bigger-picture question.

Is the network stronger if an anonymous technology is used for all transactions, where a fraction of them are deliberately made transparent;

or is the network stronger if BTC is used for transparent transactions and XMR/BBR/foo is used only for anonymous transactions?

My concern about the latter is guilt-by-association. We know, for example, that the NSA archives permanently all encrypted data, but (publicly says) that it does not retain certain classes of unencrypted data.

One or two anonymous transactions per minute may be much more easily traced via traffic analysis than 1000 anonymous transactions per minute mixed together with 10 deanonymized transactions. This is based, admittedly, on the assumption that people who don't carefully ask the question of whether they want anonymity will default to BTC.

BTCwriter

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

All can vote for Monero here;
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-what-anonymous-coin-will-succed-568166

or you can vote for StealthCoin Grin

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote

It is anonymous for those who want, transparent for those who want (like regulators)

http://www.coinssource.com/monero-interview/

This is a scary thing to read. The jack of all trades will always be the master of none. Any one who makes transparent transactions reduces the anonymity of all other participants or forces them to pay a higher cost to regain the same level of protection. It imposes externalities on other actors. Anyone who wants transparent transactions can just go use bitcoin, there is no need to have a single network that does both when we have 2 networks, where each does one of the two. I hope this sentiment is not echoed by too many on the dev team.

eizh

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

Rias, that is not from any of us. I wonder how you just happen to have a URL for something so obscure and clearly fake.

In any case, I'm delighted that trolls care enough to make fake press releases. But this one is a little too transparent. In the future, try to aim for more realism so that at least some might fall for it.

Brad_BCK

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

BTW this is the 3rd page, where we discuss this article...

Its creators got what they wanted to get.
Today everyone in this thread saw this article.

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1595. (Read 4670622 times)