Hi,
Just got a refund a few days ago.
I started a PayPal dispute at day 44 (I ordered and knew that if they did not ship by 45 days I will start a dispute on time).
I do not consider the rate at which they are shipping to be really shipping, because they lied on their shipping rates.
I don't have ANY problem with getting a refund by any mean under those circumstances.
And it's funny because BFL just announced the Monarch - I won't order from them but there is a shift toward more powerful devices, so I'm glad I got my money back.
I will NEVER AGAIN order from BFL. In 10+ years doing online e-commerce I've never seen people behaving like them.
The people in the BFL forums are like affected by the Stockholm syndrome : every time there is the slightest hope for something positive, they all get happy, and they don't see the big picture.
uski
Topic: YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL - page 13. (Read 45631 times)
What happened with Terrahash that they are receiving refund complaints?
Yifu happened to TH.
What happened with Terrahash that they are receiving refund complaints?
such a crap guys they wont refund , they wont ship wtf does that mean ?
And gaypal supports it
And gaypal supports it
I followed up my phone calls with an email that looked like this:
Code:
My company sent these two payments to TerraHash, Inc. via PayPal
TXID: ##
Invoice ID: WC-###
Date: Jun ##, ####
Time: ##:##:## PDT
-$#,###.## USD
TXID: ##
Invoice ID: WC-###
Date: Jun ##, ####
Time: ##:##:## PDT
-$#,###.## USD
The payments were for pre-sale computer hardware which was to be shipped by August ##th, ####. The computer hardware has not been shipped and no shipping timeline is known at this time.
I have contacted TerraHash and requested refunds on August ##, ####. TerraHash has not replied to my requests as of August ##, ####.
I believe TerraHash is violating the following PayPal Policies:
(d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item,
Breach any law, statute, contract, or regulation
#.# b) Breach any law, statute, contract, or regulation .
TerraHash is required by the Federal Trade Commission to issue a refund upon request since they have not shipped any product. No sale has been made.
#.# l)
Conduct your business or use the Services in a manner that results in or may result in complaints, Disputes, Claims, Reversals, Chargebacks, fees, fines, penalties and other liability to PayPal, a User, a third party or you;
TerraHash has a huge number of people complaining in the BitCoin community and there is going to be a huge rash of chargebacks and complaints very shortly as they are no where near delivering on their promises to their customers.
TerraHash has violated your terms of service which clearly state that the seller "Guarantees shipment within ## days from the date of purchase". This applies to pre-sale items.
Please refund my payments.
Thanks for taking the time to review my request. You can contact me via email or one of the phone numbers below.
- I sent an email to [email protected] in which I listed my transaction and dispute number, and explained how BFL is violating the ToS.
FYI, that email address isn't accepting fraud complaints at this time. Instead you can send your information/request to [email protected].
I spent a couple hours on the phone with various 'supervisors' in the paypal business services department. They will mostly say 'since you are past the 45 day windows, there's nothing we can do' over and over. But if you keep pointing out how BFL/TerraHash/other naughty ASIC company/ is violating their terms of service, committing mail/wire fraud, violating FTC regulations etc. they will eventually cave and open a case for a refund.
Spread the word...
As you are doing. Help out the people stuck in this whirlpool just as good.
BFL = Shady.
As you are doing. Help out the people stuck in this whirlpool just as good.
BFL = Shady.
Yes that is simple. Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware?
I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
I'd be surprised if they did. I certainly wouldn't if I built mining hardware seeing as how many variables out of your control could change profitibility of your product, then again it is BFL so who knows. If that was posted somewhere I'm sure someone will dig it up.I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
One side benefit of all this is I am a bit more aware of my rights as a consumer in certain situations due to all the postings of regulations and law.
Yes that is good. We need to take that one step further and work together and push these companies further and expect them to refund when requested or send in official complaints to the relevant authorities. Avalon or BFL both have exposure here legally and that is where we can apply pressure.
BFL = Shady.
Yes that is simple. Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware?
I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
I'd be surprised if they did. I certainly wouldn't if I built mining hardware seeing as how many variables out of your control could change profitibility of your product, then again it is BFL so who knows. If that was posted somewhere I'm sure someone will dig it up.I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
One side benefit of all this is I am a bit more aware of my rights as a consumer in certain situations due to all the postings of regulations and law.
Yes that is good. We need to take that one step further and work together and push these companies further and expect them to refund when requested or send in official complaints to the relevant authorities. Avalon or BFL both have exposure here legally and that is where we can apply pressure.
BFL = Shady.
Yes that is simple. Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware?
I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
I'd be surprised if they did. I certainly wouldn't if I built mining hardware seeing as how many variables out of your control could change profitibility of your product, then again it is BFL so who knows. If that was posted somewhere I'm sure someone will dig it up.I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
One side benefit of all this is I am a bit more aware of my rights as a consumer in certain situations due to all the postings of regulations and law.
Yes that is good. We need to take that one step further and work together and push these companies further and expect them to refund when requested or send in official complaints to the relevant authorities. Avalon or BFL both have exposure here legally and that is where we can apply pressure.
BFL = Shady.
Yes that is simple. Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware?
I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
I'd be surprised if they did. I certainly wouldn't if I built mining hardware seeing as how many variables out of your control could change profitibility of your product, then again it is BFL so who knows. If that was posted somewhere I'm sure someone will dig it up.I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
One side benefit of all this is I am a bit more aware of my rights as a consumer in certain situations due to all the postings of regulations and law.
Google the email address for the president of PayPal and email him. It worked for me more than 80 days after purchase.
If all refunds went as smoothly. BFL = Shady.
Google the email address for the president of PayPal and email him. It worked for me more than 80 days after purchase.
bump
You really need more training...And a Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask Butterfly Labs for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
There are also several threads on how to get a refund from BFL, here are two:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585
bump
I recently received a full refund from BFL for an order I placed several months ago.
I know, I know, BFL claims that "all sales are final". Well, there's "final", and then there's "final"...
It took a month, but here's what worked for me:
- I sent an email to [email protected] in which I politely requested a refund.
- About a week later, I received a reply from BFL denying my request.
- I filed a dispute with PayPal. In this dispute I noted that BFL failed to deliver, denied my refund request, and violated PayPal's Terms of Service for pre-order sales.
- PayPal closed my dispute the same day, stating that I was outside the 45-day window.
- I called PayPal's customer service and complained about my dispute being closed, and explained to PayPal exactly how BFL is violating the ToS.
- I sent an email to [email protected] in which I listed my transaction and dispute number, and explained how BFL is violating the ToS.
- A few days later, a PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor called me on the phone. He had already spoken to BFL and assured me that BFL would be contacting me. I told him that I just wanted a refund, and explained to him how BFL is violating the ToS.
- I waited a week to give BFL plenty of time to contact me. They didn't.
- I emailed the PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor and told him that BFL had not contacted me. He seemed shocked. I wasn't. He told me that PayPal could take action against BFL if necessary.
- The PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor escalated my dispute to the next level (whatever that is). He told me that someone else would call.
- The next day I received a call from a guy named Bruce at BFL. He told me that since I had complained to PayPal, BFL was placing my order "under review" and taking it out of the queue. From his tone, I got the impression that Bruce thought this would bother me. I told him that I didn't need a review, I just wanted my money back. He wouldn't give me a firm answer and just kept repeating that they were placing my order "under review" and taking it out of the queue. I even asked if this review would take a day, week, month, or year. No answer, just the same "under review" statement.
- Within 5 minutes of BFL's call, an Account Representative from PayPal called. I told her about the strange conversation with Bruce. She said that she would contact BFL again.
- My payment to BFL was refunded to my PayPal account the next business day.
IMHO, this is the bottom line:
BFL needs PayPal. If you want your money back, complain to PayPal and don't give up.
+1
And back on track:
Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms
There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585
Public Service Announcement!
If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms
There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.
Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Case reopened!
What? no reward?
?I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.
Edit: Don't tell me...It's SLOCK?
Nah, just a dude in Iowa.
He is even hitting the BFL forums pretty hard right now. (bcp19)
Only a crazy guy would post in every BFL thread.
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.
Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Case reopened!
What? no reward?
?I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.
Edit: Don't tell me...It's SLOCK?
Nah, just a dude in Iowa.
He is even hitting the BFL forums pretty hard right now. (bcp19)
Yep!
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.
Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Case reopened!
What? no reward?
?I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.
Edit: Don't tell me...It's SLOCK?
Nah, just a dude in Iowa.
He is even hitting the BFL forums pretty hard right now. (bcp19)
Only a crazy guy would post in every BFL thread.
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