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Topic: YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL - page 14. (Read 45622 times)

legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
August 24, 2013, 01:45:32 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?
Josh, is bcp19 your latest sock?

I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.

Either way, he's a poor, confused soul who, IMO, is not grounded in reality.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
August 24, 2013, 01:45:11 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?
Josh, is bcp19 your latest sock?

I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.
Do they work at BFL?

Edit: Don't tell me...It's SLOCK?

Nah, just a dude in Iowa.
Why does he/she/it agree with absolutely everything that BFL does? Heavy investments or just shilling for the sake of shilling?

He is even hitting the BFL forums pretty hard right now. (bcp19)
Wow, you really have not read everything I have posted.  Ask PG, he even answered the same questions I did.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
August 24, 2013, 01:43:58 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?
Josh, is bcp19 your latest sock?

I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.
Do they work at BFL?

Edit: Don't tell me...It's SLOCK?

Nah, just a dude in Iowa.
Why does he/she/it agree with absolutely everything that BFL does? Heavy investments or just shilling for the sake of shilling?

He is even hitting the BFL forums pretty hard right now. (bcp19)
member
Activity: 115
Merit: 10
August 24, 2013, 01:43:13 PM
What will you get sonner, BTC refund or preordered unit ?
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
August 24, 2013, 01:41:43 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?
Josh, is bcp19 your latest sock?

I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.
Do they work at BFL?

Edit: Don't tell me...It's SLOCK?

Nah, just a dude in Iowa.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
August 24, 2013, 01:40:57 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?

I was in reference to Josh calling EVERYBODY on this forum a Monumental Asshole, and since SN is still a member, ergo the assessment.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
August 24, 2013, 01:40:09 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?
Josh, is bcp19 your latest sock?

I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.
Do they work at BFL?

Edit: Don't tell me...It's SLOCK?
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
August 24, 2013, 01:39:29 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?
Josh, is bcp19 your latest sock?

I want to state that I have reason to believe that this is not the case, and that they are two different people.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
August 24, 2013, 01:36:07 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?
Josh, is bcp19 your latest sock?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
August 24, 2013, 01:31:01 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PG IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FOUND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? no reward?Huh?
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
August 24, 2013, 01:28:22 PM
A contract which includes terms which go against public policy is not enforceable, at least to the extent of those terms.

As an extreme example, if the penalty for violation of a contract on the part of one of the signers was for forfeit one's, wife, cat, dog, car, boat and first born son, those penalties would not be enforceable because such penalties would go against public policy.

We do not trade in human beings in this country and the cat, dog, car and boat are property and unless specifically mortaged to the contractwith proper paperwork would be untouchable by the terms.

You can sign a contract which essentially causes you to give up many or all of your rights but it is highly unlikely that a court of competent jusrisdiction would allow wuch terms to be valid.

Checked with my attorney on this one before posting this by the way.

My $.02.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
August 24, 2013, 01:07:46 PM
Yea, I don't think that bolded part get's him out of it.  What if the reader were to stop reading before that line?  They might be confused into thinking josh said his hardware will earn the buyer X amount of money.

Why would any person NOT demand a refund before these fools go bankrupt?
* Viceroy facepalms
Judge: Did you read the contract before you signed it?
Plaintiff: Well, I read part of it
Judge: So you did not read this part here...
Plaintiff: No
Judge: Case Dismissed... NEXT!

Those terms do not compose part of the sales contract, they are testimonials published about the products and thus are marketing.
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/marketing-fraud.html
Originally, there was no sales contract at all (even now there are just a few lines). Just an exchange of money for an order number. Thus, the terms of the UCC are what will be enforced.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
August 24, 2013, 01:01:14 PM
But, Judge, Josh Zerlan called Satoshi Nakamoto a Monumental Asshole.

Case reopened!
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
August 24, 2013, 12:58:34 PM
Judge: Did you read the contract before you signed it?
Plaintiff: Well, I read part of it
Judge: So you did not read this part here...
Plaintiff: No
Judge: Case Dismissed... NEXT!

IANAL, but without a concrete delivery date, I don't think the "sale terms" actually form the offer component of a contract, if it were to be tested.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
August 24, 2013, 12:43:59 PM
Yea, I don't think that bolded part get's him out of it.  What if the reader were to stop reading before that line?  They might be confused into thinking josh said his hardware will earn the buyer X amount of money.

Why would any person NOT demand a refund before these fools go bankrupt?
* Viceroy facepalms
Judge: Did you read the contract before you signed it?
Plaintiff: Well, I read part of it
Judge: So you did not read this part here...
Plaintiff: No
Judge: Case Dismissed... NEXT!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
August 24, 2013, 12:29:07 PM
Yea, I don't think that bolded part get's him out of it.  What if the reader were to stop reading before that line?  They might be confused into thinking josh said his hardware will earn the buyer X amount of money.

Why would any person NOT demand a refund before these fools go bankrupt?
* Viceroy facepalms
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
August 24, 2013, 12:23:08 PM
Yes that is simple.  Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware?  

I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
There was an official post with estimated revenue but couldn't find it. (probably deleted)

EDIT: There it is: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showwiki.php?title=FAQ:Get+Rich+Quick+Not+so+fast

No promise but misleading for noobs imo.

Quote
Income per month for the BFL ASICs (using the above) with no overclocking and ZERO power costs in USD is would therefore be around the following:
Jalapeno - $1,255/mth
"Little" Single - $8,373/mth
Single - $16,746/mth
Minirig - $418,651/mth

Bear in mind these are laboratory examples (i.e. in a perfect and controlled world) and your returns may not necessarily be this high. Actually, it's almost guaranteed you will never see these sorts of figures as there will be a whole heap of ASIC's hit the market which will dramatically affect hash-rate and difficulty. These values will definitely fluctuate daily as the market value of BTC fluctuates and hash-rates/difficulty changes. If you want to run your own calculations check out many of the BTC calculators online ranging from simple to complex. Here's an example to start you off: http://bitcoinx.com/profit/

There's a reason MLMs are not allowed to show the $ amounts when they present their matrixes.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
August 24, 2013, 12:16:09 PM
Yes that is simple.  Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware?  

I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
There was an official post with estimated revenue but couldn't find it. (probably deleted)

EDIT: There it is: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showwiki.php?title=FAQ:Get+Rich+Quick+Not+so+fast

No promise but misleading for noobs imo.

Quote
Income per month for the BFL ASICs (using the above) with no overclocking and ZERO power costs in USD is would therefore be around the following:
Jalapeno - $1,255/mth
"Little" Single - $8,373/mth
Single - $16,746/mth
Minirig - $418,651/mth

Bear in mind these are laboratory examples (i.e. in a perfect and controlled world) and your returns may not necessarily be this high. Actually, it's almost guaranteed you will never see these sorts of figures as there will be a whole heap of ASIC's hit the market which will dramatically affect hash-rate and difficulty. These values will definitely fluctuate daily as the market value of BTC fluctuates and hash-rates/difficulty changes. If you want to run your own calculations check out many of the BTC calculators online ranging from simple to complex. Here's an example to start you off: http://bitcoinx.com/profit/

There's a reason MLMs are not allowed to show the $ amounts when they present their matrixes.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
August 24, 2013, 12:03:53 PM
I'd say derr777's is the most interesting response in the thread so far:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2999257

Just fyi: if they are running a psuedo-long con, which could probably be argued at this point, he could be found to have been in violation of his probabtion, even if they declare bankruptcy after september 15.  The court would look at the time the crime was done (if it is proven to be such,) so don't worry about these artificial dates.

I'm not saying they are doing anything illegal, but it does look more likely now... even so, the above would mean he could still be found in violation of his parole/probation.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
August 24, 2013, 11:56:02 AM
Are you a lawyer bcp19?
Hmmm.... 20 years Navy... so best I can be is a Sea lawyer... why?
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