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Topic: 2.1T 900W, Innosilicon Blake256 D9 DecredMaster/ 3.83T 1380W, S11 SiaMaster - page 22. (Read 8138 times)

jr. member
Activity: 40
Merit: 5
I placed my order on April 23rd using BTC.

Sent them 4 confirmations including TX - BTC Transactions with their Wallet Address and mine, amount, time stamp, etc. within 1 hour of making the payment. Confirmed the order with them 4 times, even copied the information off of their OWN PO.

It's 3 days later and they're telling me that they can't confirm payment and have not provided me with any updates on shipping / tracking or confirmation.

The payment was recorded and confirmed on the network 299 times since the 23rd. Innosilicon is telling me nothing. They do answer emails, until I ask them a direct question, like: "Can you please provide me a shipping date?" then they simply stop responding.

I'm getting pretty concerned. I guess they have a history of this after reading some reviews.

@Innosilicon What do I need to do to ensure that my miner's are sent out on April 27th? I have provided everything you've asked and more.



Hello Thanks for your feedback.

Would you please send me your order ID by private letter to me? I will ask my colleague to check and reply to you asap.

Thank you~

Your forum settings will not allow me to send you a private message.
full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 108
Innosilicon ASIC official representative
I placed my order on April 23rd using BTC.

Sent them 4 confirmations including TX - BTC Transactions with their Wallet Address and mine, amount, time stamp, etc. within 1 hour of making the payment. Confirmed the order with them 4 times, even copied the information off of their OWN PO.

It's 3 days later and they're telling me that they can't confirm payment and have not provided me with any updates on shipping / tracking or confirmation.

The payment was recorded and confirmed on the network 299 times since the 23rd. Innosilicon is telling me nothing. They do answer emails, until I ask them a direct question, like: "Can you please provide me a shipping date?" then they simply stop responding.

I'm getting pretty concerned. I guess they have a history of this after reading some reviews.

@Innosilicon What do I need to do to ensure that my miner's are sent out on April 27th? I have provided everything you've asked and more.



Hello Thanks for your feedback.

Would you please send me your order ID by private letter to me? I will ask my colleague to check and reply to you asap.

Thank you~
jr. member
Activity: 40
Merit: 5
I placed my order on April 23rd using BTC.

Sent them 4 confirmations including TX - BTC Transactions with their Wallet Address and mine, amount, time stamp, etc. within 1 hour of making the payment. Confirmed the order with them 4 times, even copied the information off of their OWN PO.

It's 3 days later and they're telling me that they can't confirm payment and have not provided me with any updates on shipping / tracking or confirmation.

The payment was recorded and confirmed on the network 299 times since the 23rd. Innosilicon is telling me nothing. They do answer emails, until I ask them a direct question, like: "Can you please provide me a shipping date?" then they simply stop responding.

I'm getting pretty concerned. I guess they have a history of this after reading some reviews.

@Innosilicon What do I need to do to ensure that my miner's are sent out on April 27th? I have provided everything you've asked and more.

newbie
Activity: 88
Merit: 0
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future.  

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin



For those of us who have already paid... We would like to know when they will actually ship.

Can you provide an update on the status of these units shipping? If you've already paid will the "actually" be sent out on April 27th?

I purchased 2 d9 units and provided 4 screen shots of transfer proof and confirmation and no one at Innosilicon has been able to confirm my payment ($15, 000+ usd) or when they are scheduled to ship.

This is very concerning based on some other topics with customer reviews of your other products being delayed, used, catching fire, etc.

I got an email from Innosilicon confirming they got my payment for the D9 and will be shipping out this Friday-Monday.

Nice, when did you place your order and how did you pay? I'm waiting on my bank wire to process on their side.

I placed my order on the 22nd with litecoin and they sent me an email today the 25th confirming my order. They also said they will be shipping out on the 27th and sending me tracking as soon as they get it from the factory that day.
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
Any idea on the ROI? Via Asicminervalue it's around 35-40days. Will that be the same after everyone gets his/her D9 or will the ROI never be reached?
jr. member
Activity: 57
Merit: 11
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future. 

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin



For those of us who have already paid... We would like to know when they will actually ship.

Can you provide an update on the status of these units shipping? If you've already paid will the "actually" be sent out on April 27th?

I purchased 2 d9 units and provided 4 screen shots of transfer proof and confirmation and no one at Innosilicon has been able to confirm my payment ($15, 000+ usd) or when they are scheduled to ship.

This is very concerning based on some other topics with customer reviews of your other products being delayed, used, catching fire, etc.

I got an email from Innosilicon confirming they got my payment for the D9 and will be shipping out this Friday-Monday.

Nice, when did you place your order and how did you pay? I'm waiting on my bank wire to process on their side.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1415
I would suggest for everybody to stay as far away from them as possible. Ordered 3 A5s for 30K, delivery was due to september, than moved to october, than arrived in middle november. ROI is of course of the plate bigtime, many units caught fire, many were shipped bricked without a sd card slot, they even put a mandatory hw update self service type, you just need to have mad soldering skills to do that.
Check the thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2033006.740

I havent owned an inno unit yet but i personally know some who have and have dealt with the same type mess.  I dont know if its luck of the draw but good luck to anyone buying these.  Will be waiting for some reviews on this one as the A5s went through a mess at first
newbie
Activity: 88
Merit: 0
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future. 

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin



For those of us who have already paid... We would like to know when they will actually ship.

Can you provide an update on the status of these units shipping? If you've already paid will the "actually" be sent out on April 27th?

I purchased 2 d9 units and provided 4 screen shots of transfer proof and confirmation and no one at Innosilicon has been able to confirm my payment ($15, 000+ usd) or when they are scheduled to ship.

This is very concerning based on some other topics with customer reviews of your other products being delayed, used, catching fire, etc.

I got an email from Innosilicon confirming they got my payment for the D9 and will be shipping out this Friday-Monday.
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future.  

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Everyone and their mother knows this. Just haven't heard either company admit this publicly.

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin



Did you just admit that the D9 and Halong Mining's B29 are the same thing?

They are the same thing.

Everyone and their mother knows this. Just haven't hear either company admit it publicly.
jr. member
Activity: 57
Merit: 11
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future. 

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin


Funny.

I agree 6800 and 10800 is a considerable difference in price. However, the D9 is a NEW miner listed for Innosilicon, right? So $6800 is an introduction price NOT a discount price.

Please be transparent about this because it's a little misleading. Is there an actual discount being offered for "Now Offering Discount" or is that Discount already considered in the price of the miner? If it's the later, it's pointless to include that verbiage other than a marketing tactic which causes some confusion. The price listed is the price it's being sold, there's no discount in that.

The Halong B29 miner was listed at $10500 which at the time profitability was near 10k/month. The difference in the introductory price of $6800 looks more aligned to profitability adjustments in the current market.

legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1710
Electrical engineer. Mining since 2014.
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future. 

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin



Did you just admit that the D9 and Halong Mining's B29 are the same thing?

They are the same thing.
jr. member
Activity: 40
Merit: 5
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future. 

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin



For those of us who have already paid... We would like to know when they will actually ship.

Can you provide an update on the status of these units shipping? If you've already paid will the "actually" be sent out on April 27th?

I purchased 2 d9 units and provided 4 screen shots of transfer proof and confirmation and no one at Innosilicon has been able to confirm my payment ($15, 000+ usd) or when they are scheduled to ship.

This is very concerning based on some other topics with customer reviews of your other products being delayed, used, catching fire, etc.
full member
Activity: 270
Merit: 100
I would suggest for everybody to stay as far away from them as possible. Ordered 3 A5s for 30K, delivery was due to september, than moved to october, than arrived in middle november. ROI is of course of the plate bigtime, many units caught fire, many were shipped bricked without a sd card slot, they even put a mandatory hw update self service type, you just need to have mad soldering skills to do that.
Check the thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2033006.740
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future. 

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin



Did you just admit that the D9 and Halong Mining's B29 are the same thing?
full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 108
Innosilicon ASIC official representative
I get what all the fuss is about for the BTC, LTC exchange rate being off or in favor of Innosilicon buy a few hundred bucks. That does feel as if we're being penalized for paying in crypto, a little ironic for a crypto ASIC manufacturer. We do have the option to pay USD via Bank Transfer to get the exact value listed which is what I did. I suppose some will have to sell some coins and transfer into fiat but that is an option. Hopefully, Innosilicon can implement a current value tracker of BTC and LTC in the near future. 

I'm interested in what the "Now Offering Discount" is that is handled by the Marketing/Sales Team for the D9? Is this a coupon? Earlier Ship Date? A bonus MINER!?! wishful thinking.  Grin

I've had all my emails answered within their business hours in China, pretty happy with the Support so far. Thanks Innosilicon! Looking forward to my D9, please don't let us down with the ship date!!

As you've seen, many have noticed the obvious Specs inline with Halong's B52 and B29 and your S11 and D9. Can you shed some light on the topic? Are you partners with Halong, if so who's manufacturing? Are these miners using Samsung 10nm chips?

Can we expect any of these questions to be answered, please!?

If not, I revert back to my original question, what's the "Now Offering Discount" mean?

Hello,

D9 used to sell for 10800 USD. And now you can get one D9 with 6800 USD. This is big discount. Grin

full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 108
Innosilicon ASIC official representative
I ordered one of the D9's and when I get it I'm going to compare it to my Halong B29. I wondering if the hashboards are identical because I have a sneaky suspicion that they will be  Roll Eyes

Nice nice!!! I'm definitely interested in the comparison. Please keep us posted. Waiting on my D9 to get here as well.

I don't mind a partnership, but curious to know who's manufacturing the ASICs and who's labeling..

Inno, want to give us a hint? Anything you can share about the chips being Samsung - yay or nay?

Thank you for your feedback~

You will know when you get D9. Let's wait and see. Wink
full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 108
Innosilicon ASIC official representative
I  did a screen shot price for 1 miner  S11 and shipping to usa

coinbase price right now is 8922   so .446 x 8922 =  3979 usd  you are off by more then 200 usd in your favor.

I can guarantee it is always off in your favor as I check it 1 time every hour for days now and it is always 100 to 350 usd in your favor.


As it should be about 3500 + 120 to ship or 3620 usd .  It has never been this price. On 3 different exchanges  all the times I checked.

I don't mind the extra 100 to 350 overcharge I mind you hide it.

You have done it for years.

Why not simply say BTC rates and LTC rates are Slightly  higher due to exchange costs.
The no one would complain.
I have purchased 300,000 in gear since 2012 I have never purchased a single item from you  because you do this.
I own a dragon mint b52 which is the same as your s11 it is a fine miner I would buy the s11 from you if you were transparent  about exchange rates you are not.
To all  the S11 is good gear well at least my B52 is good.




Hello Thanks a lot for your feedback.

The exchange rate maybe a little higher because of the unstable price of BTC.
Since we are unable to track the highly variable BTC valuation, we have no choice but to provide a BTC valuation that is on the lower end of this range. We recognize that this does not provide a good deal using this currency when the BTC valuation moves higher, however we also accept USD, which is a much more stable currency for us. Our recommendation is that you make your purchases in USD if you can't time your purchases to a low BTC valuation.

Thank you.

holy crap did you just copy and paste that response from the previous page? jesus you guys really keep shooting yourselves in the foot

It's basically the same question. So...we'll change the expression next time. Smiley

No it is not.  What I said was post on the sales page.



Just put it on the website

we don't adjust btc and ltc every hour so we use a lower number. Pay cash if you want a true cash price.

Saying it on this thread means nothing .

Write it on your website .  To a westerner like myself  you would be showing me respect and honesty.
In western culture your practice with ltc and btc prices is considered theft and disrespectful.
So I suggested you explain the problem on your website

  I did this because I like the B52/S11 gear. 
BTW your B52 or S11 sia miner is a great piece of gear.
I reviewed it very favorably 


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.35406403

I would buy another but I don't  due to your deception with btc and ltc prices. I feel disrespected by your website.


Many thanks for your good suggestion. We have accepted your proposal after applying with our manager.



Thank you a lot~
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
I do believe high risk high yield! D9 with such high hash rate mining DCR Tongue Tongue I just want to know the ship time and the price for any discount or coupon....lol  I'm very optimistic about this one!
Whats with this Blake256 algo? How come its producing the top numbers and its only got 1 coin on it, decred. Why is decred so much more profitable to mine than any other coin in the market? Is this a risky buy like the X3?
Its lucrative at this point. And how will everyone jumping on this affect the profitability/difficulty? I really want to buy a few but unsure how risky it is. Need to get more educated. Any help is highly appreciated!

The s11 or b52 is making me solid money


https://www.nicehash.com/miner/146UJM5kgzLVUV23CXCf33KQKHckoX1gx3


0.0072  btc after auto conversion is 66 usd a day.


My review of the B52

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-dragonmint-b52-miner-from-halong-3338797

Of course the op does not admit  the b52 is the s11

 why?  I don't know

I would want to have another.  I have earned about 0.1 btc with it in about  13 days

newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
I do believe high risk high yield! D9 with such high hash rate mining DCR Tongue Tongue I just want to know the ship time and the price for any discount or coupon....lol  I'm very optimistic about this one!
Whats with this Blake256 algo? How come its producing the top numbers and its only got 1 coin on it, decred. Why is decred so much more profitable to mine than any other coin in the market? Is this a risky buy like the X3?
Its lucrative at this point. And how will everyone jumping on this affect the profitability/difficulty? I really want to buy a few but unsure how risky it is. Need to get more educated. Any help is highly appreciated!
jr. member
Activity: 57
Merit: 11
China ASICS = Liars

I have experienced this, the quality of products are bad with only 90 to 180 days garanty (mine crashed after 8 months and it looked like it was used when i received it, i never ROI'd it).

They only want to steal your money they are not like americans or europeans that want to make the best quality product to gain long term users. Chineses Asic producer only want fast money. So they produce the product, they use it when difficulty is still down, and then they sell their used ASICS promising the best profits to customers but the best profits are for them because this material, when received, is only profitable for 2 or 3 months and you cannot ROI it ... thank you chinese ASIC companies.

You are warned then do like you want now. I hope an occidental ASIC producer will emerge soon to destroy that f...ing Chinese ASIC companies.

Sorry for your luck. Care to elaborate on your experience i.e. which company or companies, which miner, how soon did you order after initial availability, what caused it to crash - were you within operating temps? I think alot of people presume the miners are pre-used for a duration, not sure how long or if this is even true, likely though. I'm sure there's many who reached ROI if they were the lucky/early ones who received their machines before most others. Check out BlockOps on youtube, dude was making a killing with all his S9's late last year when the BTC was 18k.
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