Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now! - page 158. (Read 529056 times)

you did not make them sign a deadline contract, so thats never going to work.

the only thing you can investigate is if theres any law that gives us a full refund, IF they dont ship a machine....and its way to early to know that

And they have failed to deliver on that agreement based on the original terms.  Adding additional hashing does not preclude the fact that they have missed their deadlines on providing cc payment options and shipping buy july 1st.

Not to mention the practice of changing the terms of agreement, deleting posts that can be linked to them and qualifying me as a business but not asking for business credentials/identification (tax id/ federal id/business id) only to skirt some laws to afford them more protection and force their customers into a position they did not expect to be in.

For all these practices I feel that there should be a suit to file against them.  Again its a lawsuit.  The purpose of to determine in a court of law (not on a forum) if Alpha Technology violated any laws.  If they did then we can talk damages.  But right now we need an investigation and filing a lawsuit is the best way.

for what exactly?

you entered into an agreement with them

Anyone from the UK doing this give me a shout, I'm in.

I agree and I'll take part!

no chippie no monnie no worry

the amex people said it was likely that because they initiated cc option thru their bank then if/when they can pull the cc option to pay like they did paypal...then cc protection likely will not work again..ie if alpha does not take cc or paypal how would the cc company get the funds back?...at that point..sure you win fraud but hard for a cc
company to get $$$ back w/o the merchant cc account etc...again we 'made this order' it is not 'we did not authorize this order' so because we authorized the 30%
at that point we may be out of luck....but the cc option could let alpha suck a lot more people in for a BFL disappointment experience before turning off the taps
again like they did paypal....as far as I know alpha could argue that you are paying off a bill from last jan 2014 (30% down) thus the other 70% you paid is not
protected becasue you are just paying off your jan bill (more then 60 days)..games like that

it seems pretty messy

ie fraud protection is for 'charges you did not make' ie fraud...we paid the 30% down..thus why amex says i'm right not to pay the remaining 70% and they are still
looking at my dispute..*they could have just cut me off and say I'm out of luck rather then put this much time into it..amex that is....they have not done so yet
amex is annoyed at the idea of 30% down for vaporware ...no way to pay ....you can't even pay the ramaining 70% till they offered such say what was it end of may?
but you are penalized on their refund process for being over 5 months no refund at all.. by that time and can only pay with wire xfer/bank xfer and no prototype and no real info on progress
 .and viola..now the majority of people purchasing alpha 1st batch are over the 5 month limit and can get NONE of their 30% down back...suddenly you can
now they take amex again..and pay the last 70%..amazing how that all works out so well for alpha an't it....tied up our funds nicely ...for 5 months or so
or refund with penalties...etc ....hell if i was amex i'd be p'/o'd too..so from amex reps point of view it is sophisticated extortion...you lose all the 30% unless
you pay the full 70%....at that point is it small
claims court or regulatory agencies and if they pull a BFL that could take more then a year..hell butterfly labs has been stringing on people for more then 14 months...
and again their TOS does not specify when you will get the product even if you do pay in full

so anyway how I understand it so far perhaps I'm wrong..but when amex says not to pay 70% to an amex merchant ...because they too
say it looks fishy as hell....I guess I should listen

again 2 out of 5 shot of getting my 30% back....but I put the odds at a lot worse on getting an actual unit that will not have more of loss in real dollars by sending
them this last 70% imho ..it is probably a draw..by the time w/prototype and chips etc they get their stuff out Titans will likely be out and will blow ROI out of the
water...so best to keep my remaining 1700 usd then throw good money after bad again imho...looking like I'd have lost more on the equip then the 450 I will lose
altogether anyway...esp if best case is them shipping beg of august or so me getting my unit say aug 15th etc

anyway I'll let you know how it shakes out....but no prototype 2 deadlines missed from my jan order....I may just chock this up to a valuable 'life lesson' and move on

after taking the $667 as a business loss I will likely really lose doing that as a depreciation lose only 450 usd or so...again in my case it is not worth it at this point
to toss another 1700 bucks at these guys with shipping and even with cc amex protection somewhat...better to just dispute it with amex and if the 450 goes poof
better odds then 1) equip that would ROI ..hell at this point I'd likely lose 450 or more on the equip not making roi with elec etc or 2) them pulling what seems to
be a BFL just ship so far in the future ALL 100% of your full payment would be a loss ....

it is not like these guys have shown us anything REAL besides a web page

Searing

Anyone planning on starting an AT lawsuit thread?  There seems to be interest and a number of people have already started legal action individually. Better to group together as a class action.

Amex says:

1) Forget the 30% because they are more than 90 days.

2) For the 70%:
2.a) We understand there is no product and no delivery date.
2.b) We understand that if you do not pay within 2 weeks you can lose your product.
2.c) We advise you to pay today, not within two weeks, check 2.d and 2.e below.
2.d) From the minute you pay the charge will appear 2 days after, consider that time T0.
2.e) Count 80 days from T0. If no product is received then give us a call.
2.f) From the minute you give us a call after 80 days, our Security team will start investigation but you will have your money back regardless of whether they go bankrupt or not.
2.g) We will pay you back only the 70% though, not the 100%.


I really want not to pay because:
1) There is no working prototype.
2) Turns out Bitcoin is the only one that has any sensible value, Scrypt is not accepted anywhere, just a small group of people forging an altcoin. Not that SHA-256 is not THE worst of all.
3) Diminishing returns, cost of electricity, no dB noise information on the machine: it's not a real pot of gold

THIS^^^^.  The major mining farms are all going the route of selling cloud mining shares.  They pass on the diminishing returns to the customers buying shares.  With the cash from the sold shares they buy more mining hardware, further diminishing returns which forces customers to have ot buy more shares, and the cycle goes on.   All the while the farm stays solvent on the backs of fools throwing away money.

Why would I pay $7k to get back $3k? Lol

Im better off not paying and not mining at all, which I think should really be the lesson here.

Mining isnt profitable for individuals anymore. If you arent a hardware manufacturer, or a mining conglomerate working directly with the manufacturer, you cant ever win in this game.

But that makes sense, and honestly we are all fools for believing otherwise.

Personally, I decided to file a court claim to get my money back.

Do not pay a penny to these guys. All we will get is a worthless piece of hardware in the best case scenario.

And still as of now no confirmation to determine if your credit card is owned by a business and still no verification of a tax id or business number.  My, my they have gone to great lengths to detail all the steps surrounding credit card payment, fraud protection, paying on multiple invoices.  But not a single request to confirm your business identification.


What systems???  They have not shown a single photo of a single system/case/board to accommodate event a piece of lint let alone a chip.


So its TRUE.  They do NOT have chips and will not get chips until they remit final payment to Drexel.  So basically their chips are held hostage because Alpha Tech does not have enough money to pay the remainder of the costs.  That is not good, not good at all.  This means that they could have had chips over a month ago but did not have enough cash to continue development.  Expert management there.

Oh nice finally a prototype!!!  But you first have to pay them so they can get chips so they can show you a machine that actually hashes.


LOL Captain Obvious finally got a clue.  This is why they have been silent for so long.  They could not defend their position. 

Best case scenario?  Moving the goal posts.  July was a guarantee for delivery.  Just like the payment processor would be completed July 1st guaranteed.  But every time Alpha Tech fails they don't offer up any consolation to customers.  So what does it really matter if they say they guarantee anything.  Their words are worthless at this point.  SO many false promises broken.


And even now no ship date.  They can't even project if they will get enough funds from credit card processing to remain solvent let alone be able to ship anything but empty cardboard boxes.



Here is how it will probably work. 

Worst Case scenario (most likely at this point.)

• 1 week ultimatum to make a final payment
• if they do not get enough funds, they will offer up a second ultimatum for final payment, they really mean it this time.
• Big discounts on remaining batch 1 units.  All those cancelled orders, and orders that are not completed.
• 3 weeks from now, they go bankrupt because they do not have the funds to get ships and assemble units.

Best Case scenario (rainbow farting unicorns)

• They get the funds to complete Drexel payment in 1 week
• 2 weeks from now they get delivery of the chips.  It is August 1st at this point
• At the same time get get cases and boards
• They hand assemble everything because they cannot afford a factory to build the units.  Yes a bunch of accountants will be working day and night putting chips on boards and putting them in cases and shipping them out.
• 5 unskilled laborers adding chips to PCBs.  They will be lucky to get 10 vipers done a day.
• August 15th - 70 vipers shipped
• August 25th - 70 vipers shipped, first 70 vipers stuck in customs
• Sept 5th - second batch of vipers stuck in customs, first 70 vipers released from customs.
• Sept 15th - first 70 vipers delivered. second 70 vipers released from customs.
• Sept 25th - first customers complain about overheating, hardware nounce errors, poor hashrates, immediately get banned from AT forums.
• Oct 5th - Fiaz stops assembling duties and focuses 24 hours a day on banning disgruntled customers and deleting posts.  Fiaz says that they only guaranteed 5MHs minimum and that the recent upgrades were best case scenario hashrates.
• Oct 15th - Fiaz changes terms and conditions hardware warranty to 10 days limited.

I don't believe anyone should pay before seeing at least a prototype working.

Yep, one and the same

they should refund 100% to everybody

They get 1,6mln pounds minimum, if they put them to bank for deposit- in half year they should get about 40-50k pounds

easy money, 95% ppl wil be happy.

NP.

BTW. I'm not sure if your the same guy but I read a post on the Alpha forums regarding UK consumer rights and the ability to send goods back up to 7 working days after receiving them. Well the buyer doesn't have to be in the UK to qualify, only the company does. As Alpha is a UK company, no matter where you are in the world you are covered by the UK DSR if you purchase their products. Alpha are bound by UK consumer law and have to refund you 100% of your money, deposits and all, if you decide to cancel.

Getting them to abide by the law is another matter entirely.