[ANN][Blocknet] truly decentralized exchange | token ecosystem infrastructure - page 285.

JakeThePanda

hero member

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Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 11:29:07 AM

A lot??? Dont' be so sure
My calculations show, that to make a 200 BTC worth of BLOCK's "refunds" back into bittrex buy-wall, all is needed is to sacrifice only about 15-20 BTC.
That is $5-7K only. A lot on money for a a TEAM of SDC bagholders???

If someone wants (& I'm sure we have more then one such person) to make this ITO fail, all is needed is buy all BLOCKS at higher sell prices, in value about 220 BTC total , and dump all these BLOCKs back into bittrexs wall at 0.00025
At cost of 20BTC lost - this ITO can be ruined. I'm not joking, this is serious danger.

Too bad - we see so many BLOCK sellers in the price range of 0.00025 - 0.00027

Guys, if you want ITO to succeed - DO NOT sell even one BLOCK until bittrex refunding buy-wall is away.
Just STOP SELLING. AT any price !!!

You will see much better prices in a short time. Just HOLD those 2 days!

I think your estimate is low. It's probably closer to 40+btc. Once people realize someone is buying they won't put the sell orders so close to 25k and eventually there won't be many sellers left. You may be able to make a good dent though.

GCab

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 11:35:58 AM

Quote from: GCab on November 06, 2014, 11:32:11 AM

@onealfa & cryptico
At bittrex only those can sell who bought there before. In the end it makes no difference if they sell into the wall or sell to somebody else who then sells into the wall.

If they sell to whale > whale dump> whale get BTC>whale Buy back>whale dump>whale sell>whale dump.

Am I missing something?

The amount of blocks does not change but the Dumps change

Thats the point. No new blocks come into the system. Bittrex is not selling anymore and deposits are disabled. And most likly those who are selling at 0.000251 want to be out anyway.

onealfa

full member

Activity: 235

Merit: 100

Quote from: Longenecker on November 06, 2014, 11:36:09 AM

It's not hard to calculate roughly how much has been directly returned to Bittrex.

Just take into account the 24 hour volume. Right now, it sits at 188 BTC 24 hour volume. Immediately when the ITO refund started, bittrex had around 125-130 BTC 24 hr volume.

So, around 50-60 BTC has been traded since the refund period started. Of this 50-60 BTC, about 5-8 BTC was traded at prices above 0.00025. So, about 45-53 BTC has been sold back directly into the bittrex buy wall at 0.00025.

As for people creating buy orders at 0.00025, well, bittrex bids will be filled first.

So, all we need to get a rough estimate is the 24 hour volume (and to monitor the trades above the buy wall price of 0.00025) and compare with how much we know bittrex sold, roughly 420 BTC. As of now, I would estimate that about 45-53 BTC has been refunded back to Bittrex, and about 370 BTC of their buy wall remains.

Volume figure is maybe not the best indicator. It counts all, not only bittrex's wall
When buy wall was built - it was worth of ~423 BTC. We see it now 367.
So 423-478= ~56BTC returned into the wall, as by this minute

Longenecker

full member

Activity: 226

Merit: 100

It's not hard to calculate roughly how much has been directly returned to Bittrex.

Just take into account the 24 hour volume. Right now, it sits at 188 BTC 24 hour volume. Immediately when the ITO refund started, bittrex had around 125-130 BTC 24 hr volume.

So, around 50-60 BTC has been traded since the refund period started. Of this 50-60 BTC, about 5-8 BTC was traded at prices above 0.00025. So, about 45-53 BTC has been sold back directly into the bittrex buy wall at 0.00025.

As for people creating buy orders at 0.00025, well, bittrex bids will be filled first.

So, all we need to get a rough estimate is the 24 hour volume (and to monitor the trades above the buy wall price of 0.00025) and compare with how much we know bittrex sold, roughly 420 BTC. As of now, I would estimate that about 45-53 BTC has been refunded back to Bittrex, and about 370 BTC of their buy wall remains.

cryptico

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: GCab on November 06, 2014, 11:32:11 AM

@onealfa & cryptico
At bittrex only those can sell who bought there before. In the end it makes no difference if they sell into the wall or sell to somebody else who then sells into the wall.

If they sell to whale > whale dump> whale get BTC>whale Buy back>whale dump>whale sell>whale dump.

Am I missing something?

The amount of blocks does not change but the Dumps change

Specialkey

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: onealfa on November 06, 2014, 11:21:05 AM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 09:10:21 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 09:04:33 AM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 09:01:53 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 08:57:44 AM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 08:49:36 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 08:24:55 AM

Question:
What stops people on bitrrex that sell for the refund to sell on the wall, buy a bit higher and sell again on the wall if they want to ruin the project?

Pure genius! Why didn't I think of that? Roll Eyes

What do you think people will not hurt this project on a small loss after all the smear campaign arganised here?

First, assuming someone is willing to lose money, why do you think that will hurt the project? They will buy Blocknet then sell to people that are looking to buy it cheap. I don't see how that will hurt anything.

Because the buy wall will be reduced to the point the project will not meet anymore the minimum

Someone would have to be willing to lose a lot of Bitcoin. This conversation is moot because it's not going to happen.

A lot??? Dont' be so sure
My calculations show, that to make a 200 BTC worth of BLOCK's "refunds" back into bittrex buy-wall, all is needed is to sacrifice only about 15-20 BTC.
That is $5-7K only. A lot on money for a a TEAM of SDC bagholders???

If someone wants (& I'm sure we have more then one such person) to make this ITO fail, all is needed is buy all BLOCKS at higher sell prices, in value about 220 BTC total , and dump all these BLOCKs back into bittrexs wall at 0.00025
At cost of 20BTC lost - this ITO can be ruined. I'm not joking, this is serious danger.

Too bad - we see so many BLOCK sellers in the price range of 0.00025 - 0.00027

Guys, if you want ITO to succeed - DO NOT sell even one BLOCK until bittrex refunding buy-wall is away.
Just STOP SELLING. AT any price !!!

You will see much better prices in a short time. Just HOLD those 2 days!
P.S.
I was stupid enough to put some sell orders at 27K-29K. Have removed them now all.
Think about it, and do likewise

Agreed. Good tactical typ for verybody who wants that Block has a chance.

The only point which I hate most is even if Block fails it was a win for the devs.
800 BTC is a big fish and easy money.
These days you must have your eyes wide open.
Dont let me here fool again; but risky as always. Wink

GCab

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

@onealfa & cryptico
At bittrex only those can sell who bought there before. In the end it makes no difference if they sell into the wall or sell to somebody else who then sells into the wall.

cryptico

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: onealfa on November 06, 2014, 11:21:05 AM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 09:10:21 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 09:04:33 AM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 09:01:53 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 08:57:44 AM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 08:49:36 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 08:24:55 AM

Question:
What stops people on bitrrex that sell for the refund to sell on the wall, buy a bit higher and sell again on the wall if they want to ruin the project?

Pure genius! Why didn't I think of that? Roll Eyes

What do you think people will not hurt this project on a small loss after all the smear campaign arganised here?

First, assuming someone is willing to lose money, why do you think that will hurt the project? They will buy Blocknet then sell to people that are looking to buy it cheap. I don't see how that will hurt anything.

Because the buy wall will be reduced to the point the project will not meet anymore the minimum

Someone would have to be willing to lose a lot of Bitcoin. This conversation is moot because it's not going to happen.

A lot??? Dont' be so sure
My calculations show, that to make a 200 BTC worth of BLOCK's "refunds" back into bittrex buy-wall, all is needed is to sacrifice only about 15-20 BTC.
That is $5-7K only. A lot on money for a a TEAM of SDC bagholders???

If someone wants (& I'm sure we have more then one such person) to make this ITO fail, all is needed is buy all BLOCKS at higher sell prices, in value about 220 BTC total , and dump all these BLOCKs back into bittrexs wall at 0.00025
At cost of 20BTC lost - this ITO can be ruined. I'm not joking, this is serious danger.

Too bad - we see so many BLOCK sellers in the price range of 0.00025 - 0.00027

Guys, if you want ITO to succeed - DO NOT sell even one BLOCK until bittrex refunding buy-wall is away.
Just STOP SELLING. AT any price !!!

You will see much better prices in a short time. Just HOLD those 2 days!

Exactly as well you do not take into consideration that they still have a lot of time they can wait till the end of the two days and accumulate blocks this into will maybe be on the verge of success by 20 10 5 or even 1 btc when they see that the buy wall is close enough they can just sell less bloks for a much less loss.

Trading should not be allowed at this time of the into since it is really easy to trick the system to make the into fail even with few bitcoins.....imagine if you are a whale 20 btcs is nothing

4theLOVEofCrypto

sr. member

Activity: 387

Merit: 250

Quote from: ruleland on November 06, 2014, 11:16:18 AM

Quote from: dan7777777 on November 06, 2014, 10:59:11 AM

48 already?! Thats not good. How dissapointing. This project could have been great but looks like its about to be ruined by some f***ing idiot fudders.

Actually most people who want a refund probably already refunded (some time zones might still have to wake up). It would be logical to assume refunding will slow down at an exponential rate.

So speculating it is actually looking good. But it is still, of course, speculation and anything can happen.

I hate the fact that we even have the potential of this falling through. This should be a no-brainer if you are looking for a long-term crypto investment. Probably not for you if you are a day-trader.

onealfa

full member

Activity: 235

Merit: 100

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 09:10:21 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 09:04:33 AM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 09:01:53 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 08:57:44 AM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on November 06, 2014, 08:49:36 AM

Quote from: cryptico on November 06, 2014, 08:24:55 AM

Question:
What stops people on bitrrex that sell for the refund to sell on the wall, buy a bit higher and sell again on the wall if they want to ruin the project?

Pure genius! Why didn't I think of that? Roll Eyes

What do you think people will not hurt this project on a small loss after all the smear campaign arganised here?

First, assuming someone is willing to lose money, why do you think that will hurt the project? They will buy Blocknet then sell to people that are looking to buy it cheap. I don't see how that will hurt anything.

Because the buy wall will be reduced to the point the project will not meet anymore the minimum

Someone would have to be willing to lose a lot of Bitcoin. This conversation is moot because it's not going to happen.

A lot??? Dont' be so sure
My calculations show, that to make a 200 BTC worth of BLOCK's "refunds" back into bittrex buy-wall, all is needed is to sacrifice only about 15-20 BTC.
That is $5-7K only. A lot on money for a a TEAM of SDC bagholders???

If someone wants (& I'm sure we have more then one such person) to make this ITO fail, all is needed is buy all BLOCKS at higher sell prices, in value about 220 BTC total , and dump all these BLOCKs back into bittrexs wall at 0.00025
At cost of 20BTC lost - this ITO can be ruined. I'm not joking, this is serious danger.

Too bad - we see so many BLOCK sellers in the price range of 0.00025001 - 0.00030

Guys, if you want ITO to succeed - DO NOT sell even one BLOCK until bittrex refunding buy-wall is away.
Just STOP SELLING. AT any price !!!

You will see much better prices in a short time. Just HOLD those 2 days!

P.S.
I was stupid enough to put some sell orders at 27K-29K. Have removed them all now.
Think about it, and do likewise

GCab

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

Quote from: dan7777777 on November 06, 2014, 10:59:11 AM

Quote from: 4theLOVEofCrypto on November 06, 2014, 10:50:14 AM

Quote from: Specialkey on November 06, 2014, 10:40:26 AM

it is not easy to calculate on bittrex cause some fellas set buy orders for 25k satoshi.

That nerves. Huh

Are they stupid or is that tactical?

I guess about 50- 55 BTC refunded on Trex.

From reading previous posts, Bittrex put up a 420 BTC buy wall. Right now 372 BTC remains, meaning that 48 BTC worth of BLOCK has been refunded.

I'm keeping mine, and will not be taking a refund. Just waiting on the 48 hours to finish, so I can transfer out of the exchange and add to my wallet.

48 already?! Thats not good. How dissapointing. This project could have been great but looks like its about to be ruined by some f***ing idiot fudders.

The sad thing is that the refund at Bittrex hasn't been set up because of the fud, but because the other exchanges did not enforce the ito rules. But now everybody who changed his mind uses the opportunity to leave.

ruleland

member

Activity: 81

Merit: 10

Quote from: dan7777777 on November 06, 2014, 10:59:11 AM

48 already?! Thats not good. How dissapointing. This project could have been great but looks like its about to be ruined by some f***ing idiot fudders.

Actually most people who want a refund probably already refunded (some time zones might still have to wake up). It would be logical to assume refunding will slow down at an exponential rate.

So speculating it is actually looking good. But it is still, of course, speculation and anything can happen.

4theLOVEofCrypto

sr. member

Activity: 387

Merit: 250

Quote from: Specialkey on November 06, 2014, 11:02:50 AM

Quote from: dan7777777 on November 06, 2014, 10:59:11 AM

Quote from: 4theLOVEofCrypto on November 06, 2014, 10:50:14 AM

Quote from: Specialkey on November 06, 2014, 10:40:26 AM

it is not easy to calculate on bittrex cause some fellas set buy orders for 25k satoshi.

That nerves. Huh

Are they stupid or is that tactical?

I guess about 50- 55 BTC refunded on Trex.

From reading previous posts, Bittrex put up a 420 BTC buy wall. Right now 372 BTC remains, meaning that 48 BTC worth of BLOCK has been refunded.

I'm keeping mine, and will not be taking a refund. Just waiting on the 48 hours to finish, so I can transfer out of the exchange and add to my wallet.

48 already?! Thats not good. How dissapointing. This project could have been great but looks like its about to be ruined by some f***ing idiot fudders.

no it is allready more, cause some stupid idiots are although making buy orders for 25 k satsoshi.

I watch permantly.

If that's the case, then I'm not sure how much has been returned. That would mask the numbers a bit.

We will just have to wait and see. Oh the suspense is killing me!

AngusCanine

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1001

To weird to live To rare to die

Quote from: Specialkey on November 06, 2014, 10:40:26 AM

it is not easy to calculate on bittrex cause some fellas set buy orders for 25k satoshi.

That nerves. Huh

Are they stupid or is that tactical?

I guess about 50- 55 BTC refunded on Trex.

Bittrex would sell their orders first?

4theLOVEofCrypto

sr. member

Activity: 387

Merit: 250

Quote from: dan7777777 on November 06, 2014, 10:59:11 AM

Quote from: 4theLOVEofCrypto on November 06, 2014, 10:50:14 AM

Quote from: Specialkey on November 06, 2014, 10:40:26 AM

it is not easy to calculate on bittrex cause some fellas set buy orders for 25k satoshi.

That nerves. Huh

Are they stupid or is that tactical?

I guess about 50- 55 BTC refunded on Trex.

From reading previous posts, Bittrex put up a 420 BTC buy wall. Right now 372 BTC remains, meaning that 48 BTC worth of BLOCK has been refunded.

I'm keeping mine, and will not be taking a refund. Just waiting on the 48 hours to finish, so I can transfer out of the exchange and add to my wallet.

48 already?! Thats not good. How dissapointing. This project could have been great but looks like its about to be ruined by some f***ing idiot fudders.

I don't know. From my calculations yesterday, when there was only 300 BTC in Bittrex sales things aren't looking so bad.

Quote from: 4theLOVEofCrypto on November 05, 2014, 01:13:42 PM

So with that big 87 BTC worth of BLOCK purchased on Bter, that pushes BLOCK sales to 1023 BTC. 300 of that was on Bittrex.

Based on those numbers, 41% or 123 BTC worth of BLOCK needs to be held by us if we want it to succeed. In other words anything over 173 BTC in refunds and the project fails.

Keep buying people and HODL!

So after this, there was another 120 BTC purchased as the ITO was ending. This puts the total sales at around 1143 BTC. Plus another 50-60 BTC worth taken in by Coingateway is close to 1200 BTC. Buy wall was 420 BTC. As long as the returns are no more than 350 BTC (leaving at least 80 BTC left over in the buy wall) we should be good. Math might be slightly off with additional sales on BTER or just something I missed, but that's the best I have on an estimate.

Specialkey

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: dan7777777 on November 06, 2014, 10:59:11 AM

Quote from: 4theLOVEofCrypto on November 06, 2014, 10:50:14 AM

Quote from: Specialkey on November 06, 2014, 10:40:26 AM

it is not easy to calculate on bittrex cause some fellas set buy orders for 25k satoshi.

That nerves. Huh

Are they stupid or is that tactical?

I guess about 50- 55 BTC refunded on Trex.

From reading previous posts, Bittrex put up a 420 BTC buy wall. Right now 372 BTC remains, meaning that 48 BTC worth of BLOCK has been refunded.

I'm keeping mine, and will not be taking a refund. Just waiting on the 48 hours to finish, so I can transfer out of the exchange and add to my wallet.

48 already?! Thats not good. How dissapointing. This project could have been great but looks like its about to be ruined by some f***ing idiot fudders.

no it is allready more, cause some stupid idiots are although making buy orders for 25 k satsoshi.

I watch permantly.

dan7777777

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: 4theLOVEofCrypto on November 06, 2014, 10:50:14 AM

Quote from: Specialkey on November 06, 2014, 10:40:26 AM

it is not easy to calculate on bittrex cause some fellas set buy orders for 25k satoshi.

That nerves. Huh

Are they stupid or is that tactical?

I guess about 50- 55 BTC refunded on Trex.

From reading previous posts, Bittrex put up a 420 BTC buy wall. Right now 372 BTC remains, meaning that 48 BTC worth of BLOCK has been refunded.

I'm keeping mine, and will not be taking a refund. Just waiting on the 48 hours to finish, so I can transfer out of the exchange and add to my wallet.

48 already?! Thats not good. How dissapointing. This project could have been great but looks like its about to be ruined by some f***ing idiot fudders.

illodin

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 1003

Quote from: synechist on November 06, 2014, 08:19:58 AM

Quote from: illodin on November 06, 2014, 08:09:35 AM

Quote from: mig5000 on November 06, 2014, 07:59:00 AM

If this launches

Mitigating the huge obstacle that is slippage trustlessly without exploits and without decreasing anonymity set will be a challenge, many orders of magnitude more complex than say a chat feature.

Hey Illodin

You should quote the conversation we had earlier about slippage. There were some relevant remarks. I don't think it presents an issue.

Anonymity sets: in some cases I agree that this will be a challenge. But since the XBridge is end-to-end encrypted and because inter-blockchain communication either isn't stored on a blockchain or, if it is, it can itself be anonymised, I don't see a general or a significant issue here either.

But of course the details are what count. Are you a dev? Would you consider getting involved?

I found the previous conversation, and you stated that the services will have to deal with it, not blocknet. Apologies I had forgotten that part.

I'm a dev IRL, but deal with C#/.NET only, haven't touched C/C++ for 10 years so I can't code crypto.

And if I had the energy and my C++ skills were sharp(!) and Qt didn't make me wanna puke I would launch my own coin with hefty premine or ITO instead. Tongue

4theLOVEofCrypto

sr. member

Activity: 387

Merit: 250

Quote from: Specialkey on November 06, 2014, 10:40:26 AM

it is not easy to calculate on bittrex cause some fellas set buy orders for 25k satoshi.

That nerves. Huh

Are they stupid or is that tactical?

I guess about 50- 55 BTC refunded on Trex.

From reading previous posts, Bittrex put up a 420 BTC buy wall. Right now 372 BTC remains, meaning that 48 BTC worth of BLOCK has been refunded.

I'm keeping mine, and will not be taking a refund. Just waiting on the 48 hours to finish, so I can transfer out of the exchange and add to my wallet.

Specialkey

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

it is not easy to calculate on bittrex cause some fellas set buy orders for 25k satoshi.

That nerves. Huh

Are they stupid or is that tactical?

I guess about 50- 55 BTC refunded on Trex.

Topic: [ANN][Blocknet] truly decentralized exchange | token ecosystem infrastructure - page 285. (Read 1103311 times)