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Topic: [ANN]Spectrecoin[XSPEC] TOR+OBFS4, Ring Sig, Stealth! - page 43. (Read 94854 times)

member
Activity: 164
Merit: 71
A couple quibbles...

I am staking, however I find all this "hodling" and staking attitude really selfish. I'd like to keep my eyes on the prize. The prize being real market usage. A coin is not meant to be hold but to be spent. As a derivate trader would say, "the price is backed by the cash flow".

You may characterize accumulating a position and staking it as "selfish" -- with an implied normative judgment (I prefer to frame things using the "enlightened self-interest" model myself [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest]).  Something to consider too is that hoarding (or maintaining a reserve) also reduces the supply and increases the buying power for those looking to spend it.

However, consider that it's an individual's right to hold or spend as he or she chooses (as with any other form of private property that extends beyond simple habeas corpus [traditions justified and articulated at least as far back as John Locke -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_property#History -- with fundamental property-rights also evident in earlier legal codes such as the Code of Hammurabi, Roman Law, and Old Norse legal proceedings http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/society/text/laws.htm ]).

Your "prize" doesn't necessarily need to enter into the picture for everyone... the classical definitions of money include the three aspects of: store of value, unit of account, and means of exchange.  People are or should be free to keep some portion of XSPEC with the first mode even if the second and third is most meaningful to you (the second view in that list deals with the pricing mechanism between the monetary base [XSPEC or any other] and any other thing that can be voluntarily exchanged).

Also you misstated/oversimplified things in your derivatives example; something is a derivative based on an underlying object (you are actually referring to a second-order derivative [a derivative of a derivative]).  A stock option or a warrant, for instance, is based on the underlying stock price (although the option's price is usually determined from the more complicated Black-Scholes Equation).  The stock price itself is said to in the long run parallel the cash-flow of the underlying business (but take, for instance, Tesla's chart [or say a call-option on that stock]. Both the stock chart and a call-option on it during upswings have had phenomenal runs in recent years although there is no free cash flow from that business -- see the bottom line of the chart here: http://financials.morningstar.com/cash-flow/cf.html?t=TSLA®ion=usa&culture=en-US ). Amazon would have been a similar example for many years, as would many of the Nasdaq tech-stocks in the late 90s, or many biotech stocks a few years ago.   Price, in fact, is the aggregate of all the individual estimations of value of the given thing (sometimes based on cash flow -- if it's a business being referred to -- but, even then, not always).  Moreover, the distortion of prices through the fiat/credit system misprices things significantly in both the boom and the bust that this system induces.  (The theory is described more fully in the writings of economists such as Ludwig von Mises, Jesus Huerta de Soto, and Claude Frederic Bastiat.)
hero member
Activity: 614
Merit: 506
Applications

Then why do you think Satoshi created Bitcoin? Just for fun? Did he do any marketing? Did he contact BTC/USD exchanges? None of that, it was not his job. He created a ground-breaking technology that was open for everyone to use. If it is useful, then it will be used - simple as that. The community is what drives adoption. We are the community. So what?  Smiley Let's start doing it!

in an ideal world yes. The current world however is very different then the one where Satoshi developed bitcoin. First of all he had no competition and the initial bitcoin users were either developers or very tech savy people. It took him 7 years to get recognition from the general population.

Today we are in a world of get rich craze where everybody starting with the shoeshine boys are investing in crypto. These people don't understand much and have 1000 coins to chose from and they will chose those whose marketing screams louder. There is a very real risk of falling into obscurity even with the best tech. XSPEC might die and another coin may simply take over the code base and re-use the excellent ideas of this team.

 Tongue
 //:cBTC
member
Activity: 252
Merit: 11

Then why do you think Satoshi created Bitcoin? Just for fun? Did he do any marketing? Did he contact BTC/USD exchanges? None of that, it was not his job. He created a ground-breaking technology that was open for everyone to use. If it is useful, then it will be used - simple as that. The community is what drives adoption. We are the community. So what?  Smiley Let's start doing it!

in an ideal world yes. The current world however is very different then the one where Satoshi developed bitcoin. First of all he had no competition and the initial bitcoin users were either developers or very tech savy people. It took him 7 years to get recognition from the general population.

Today we are in a world of get rich craze where everybody starting with the shoeshine boys are investing in crypto. These people don't understand much and have 1000 coins to chose from and they will chose those whose marketing screams louder. There is a very real risk of falling into obscurity even with the best tech. XSPEC might die and another coin may simply take over the code base and re-use the excellent ideas of this team.
newbie
Activity: 85
Merit: 0
newbie
Activity: 85
Merit: 0
Agreed. I was curious about the business side of things ie marketing, adoption, etc, could a senior team member perhaps elaborate on the roadmap there?  Not much info on that on the website.

You mean the roadmap regarding marketing and adoption? That's because there is really no roadmap on these things. We don't have anyone who would "lead" this stuff. Jbg and Bryce are focusing on their core competence, which is development. Marketing and adoption are within the responsibility of the community, which is us!

You have to understand that SpectreCoin is not a company, like some other ICOs nowadays, that is targeting maximum profit and where you are buying "shares" when purchasing coins. That's not how this works. This is a community-driven project - the devs are paid by donations for their work. Of course they are morally attached to the project as well, but it's not really their job to make this a profitable business.

I don't think that this is inherently a bad thing... not all users want to be capitalized on by deciding to use a certain currency. We are developing a private payment method that is open for everyone to use. That's the purpose of this project - if you want to make the price go up or increase adoption, then maybe you should start some marketing on your own! We also have a Discord that is dedicated to exactly this purpose - consisting 100% of community members! You can join that group and try to develop a marketing and adoption strategy. You can find the invite link on the wiki page here: https://altcoinwiki.org/en/SpectreCoin#Project_links


i can only partially agree on this one.... as i mentioned before, the purpose of creating a coin can never be for the purpose of creation only :/ sounds really silly, don't you think ?
If true (this is just someones hobby and therefore) it should be removed from all exchanges so the creators can continue creating untill they get bored and trade the coins between their friends in the pub and keep it there... so why donating the devs ? to pay them a salary for their hobby ? don't they get coins for free ? are no coins reserved for them ? or are the investors just here to pay (donating) for their hobby ?

Opening an ANN page on bitcointalk, providing updates, applying for new exchanges, and still only for the purpose of creation ? (a.k.a a hobby ?)
When you start something, there are many more tasks to be fullfilled, and one needs a strong figure to lead the process, which means not only focussing on the fun and known tasks, but also working on things that needs to be done.. advising investors to go in and do their own marketing is like asking a stranger to walk your dog.
@Snowboard@  absolutely exactly said, I think 90% of investors fully agree with this opinion
full member
Activity: 230
Merit: 100
Thanks for reply! we can have different opinions on how to execute things thats all fine and oke. Speaking about the community.

We are the community, and not the end users (we are investors!) i think the most concern is adoption of the project without marketing. we are a community into trading/developing/buying/selling/ etc.. end goal in my vieuw => adoption  <= how to get there = almost as important as the product itself

My thoughts exactly. Let the devs do their thing and we investors will reward them.

But we need to do our part on the marketing side. Who wants to take the lead here? I lack the experience.
member
Activity: 158
Merit: 20
Thanks for reply! we can have different opinions on how to execute things thats all fine and oke. Speaking about the community.

We are the community, and not the end users (we are investors!) i think the most concern is adoption of the project without marketing. we are a community into trading/developing/buying/selling/ etc.. end goal in my vieuw => adoption  <= how to get there = almost as important as the product itself
hero member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 515
Coin Mage
i can only partially agree on this one.... as i mentioned before, the purpose of creating a coin can never be for the purpose of creation only :/ sounds really silly, don't you think ?
If true (this is just someones hobby and therefore) it should be removed from all exchanges so the creators can continue creating untill they get bored and trade the coins between their friends in the pub and keep it there... so why donating the devs ? to pay them a salary for their hobby ? don't they get coins for free ? are no coins reserved for them ? or are the investors just here to pay (donating) for their hobby ?

Opening an ANN page on bitcointalk, providing updates, applying for new exchanges, and still only for the purpose of creation ? (a.k.a a hobby ?)
When you start something, there are many more tasks to be fullfilled, and one needs a strong figure to lead the process, which means not only focussing on the fun and known tasks, but also working on things that needs to be done.. advising investors to go in and do their own marketing is like asking a stranger to walk your dog.

Then why do you think Satoshi created Bitcoin? Just for fun? Did he do any marketing? Did he contact BTC/USD exchanges? None of that, it was not his job. He created a ground-breaking technology that was open for everyone to use. If it is useful, then it will be used - simple as that. The community is what drives adoption. We are the community. So what?  Smiley Let's start doing it!


I only partialy agree with the bolded statement. Why? I can't approach a website to use XSPEC as payment provider without having sdks, documentation and ready made plugins to easily integrate in their software. Nobody is going to invest a lot in development for a "maybe". A little investment to integrate something ready-made yes. After we have these we can talk to merchants.

I surely agree on the technical side here. But I'm not sure if Jbg should focus on these things right now, rather than finishing wallet version 1.4 or implementing stealth staking, for example. These things are much more important. I'm sure he will be willing to help anyone who is trying to build a website plugin for it. Actually, the RPC interface is not much different from Bitcoin, so it should not be that much of a difficulty for someone who is writing web plugins. After all, as I said, it's an open project - the Github is public, you can make pull requests etc.. If there is some web developer in the community who wants to make a plugin for SpectreCoin, he should just join Discord, try doing it and ask for help if necessary.
member
Activity: 252
Merit: 47
Agreed. I was curious about the business side of things ie marketing, adoption, etc, could a senior team member perhaps elaborate on the roadmap there?  Not much info on that on the website.

You mean the roadmap regarding marketing and adoption? That's because there is really no roadmap on these things. We don't have anyone who would "lead" this stuff. Jbg and Bryce are focusing on their core competence, which is development. Marketing and adoption are within the responsibility of the community, which is us!

You have to understand that SpectreCoin is not a company, like some other ICOs nowadays, that is targeting maximum profit and where you are buying "shares" when purchasing coins. That's not how this works. This is a community-driven project - the devs are paid by donations for their work. Of course they are morally attached to the project as well, but it's not really their job to make this a profitable business.

I don't think that this is inherently a bad thing... not all users want to be capitalized on by deciding to use a certain currency. We are developing a private payment method that is open for everyone to use. That's the purpose of this project - if you want to make the price go up or increase adoption, then maybe you should start some marketing on your own! We also have a Discord that is dedicated to exactly this purpose - consisting 100% of community members! You can join that group and try to develop a marketing and adoption strategy. You can find the invite link on the wiki page here: https://altcoinwiki.org/en/SpectreCoin#Project_links


i can only partially agree on this one.... as i mentioned before, the purpose of creating a coin can never be for the purpose of creation only :/ sounds really silly, don't you think ?
If true (this is just someones hobby and therefore) it should be removed from all exchanges so the creators can continue creating untill they get bored and trade the coins between their friends in the pub and keep it there... so why donating the devs ? to pay them a salary for their hobby ? don't they get coins for free ? are no coins reserved for them ? or are the investors just here to pay (donating) for their hobby ?

Opening an ANN page on bitcointalk, providing updates, applying for new exchanges, and still only for the purpose of creation ? (a.k.a a hobby ?)
When you start something, there are many more tasks to be fullfilled, and one needs a strong figure to lead the process, which means not only focussing on the fun and known tasks, but also working on things that needs to be done.. advising investors to go in and do their own marketing is like asking a stranger to walk your dog.

Whereas I don't agree with Gandalf86 on some of the things (in particular: even if monetary rewards would not be the primary driver, at least adoption needs to be. Otherwise this will just become an intellectual excersize) I also believe your comparisons are misleading.

Instead, a better comparison would be : if for instance Monero is Windows, then XSPEC is Linux.

And this also means, that aside from the development  (which includes enabling an ecosystem for XSPEC, e.g. sdk as suggested), all other efforts need to emerge from the community itself in a decentralized fashion. I don't mind this approach at all, except that the "central team" would need to focus more on ensuring that such efforts remain aligned with the development, and be available to provide guidance rather than to steer (or block) community efforts.
member
Activity: 252
Merit: 11
Agreed. I was curious about the business side of things ie marketing, adoption, etc, could a senior team member perhaps elaborate on the roadmap there?  Not much info on that on the website.

You mean the roadmap regarding marketing and adoption? That's because there is really no roadmap on these things. We don't have anyone who would "lead" this stuff. Jbg and Bryce are focusing on their core competence, which is development. Marketing and adoption are within the responsibility of the community, which is us!

You have to understand that SpectreCoin is not a company, like some other ICOs nowadays, that is targeting maximum profit and where you are buying "shares" when purchasing coins. That's not how this works. This is a community-driven project - the devs are paid by donations for their work. Of course they are morally attached to the project as well, but it's not really their job to make this a profitable business.

I don't think that this is inherently a bad thing... not all users want to be capitalized on by deciding to use a certain currency. We are developing a private payment method that is open for everyone to use. That's the purpose of this project - if you want to make the price go up or increase adoption, then maybe you should start some marketing on your own! We also have a Discord that is dedicated to exactly this purpose - consisting 100% of community members! You can join that group and try to develop a marketing and adoption strategy. You can find the invite link on the wiki page here: https://altcoinwiki.org/en/SpectreCoin#Project_links

I only partialy agree with the bolded statement. Why? I can't approach a website to use XSPEC as payment provider without having sdks, documentation and ready made plugins to easily integrate in their software. Nobody is going to invest a lot in development for a "maybe". A little investment to integrate something ready-made yes. After we have these we can talk to merchants.
member
Activity: 158
Merit: 20
Agreed. I was curious about the business side of things ie marketing, adoption, etc, could a senior team member perhaps elaborate on the roadmap there?  Not much info on that on the website.

You mean the roadmap regarding marketing and adoption? That's because there is really no roadmap on these things. We don't have anyone who would "lead" this stuff. Jbg and Bryce are focusing on their core competence, which is development. Marketing and adoption are within the responsibility of the community, which is us!

You have to understand that SpectreCoin is not a company, like some other ICOs nowadays, that is targeting maximum profit and where you are buying "shares" when purchasing coins. That's not how this works. This is a community-driven project - the devs are paid by donations for their work. Of course they are morally attached to the project as well, but it's not really their job to make this a profitable business.

I don't think that this is inherently a bad thing... not all users want to be capitalized on by deciding to use a certain currency. We are developing a private payment method that is open for everyone to use. That's the purpose of this project - if you want to make the price go up or increase adoption, then maybe you should start some marketing on your own! We also have a Discord that is dedicated to exactly this purpose - consisting 100% of community members! You can join that group and try to develop a marketing and adoption strategy. You can find the invite link on the wiki page here: https://altcoinwiki.org/en/SpectreCoin#Project_links


i can only partially agree on this one.... as i mentioned before, the purpose of creating a coin can never be for the purpose of creation only :/ sounds really silly, don't you think ?
If true (this is just someones hobby and therefore) it should be removed from all exchanges so the creators can continue creating untill they get bored and trade the coins between their friends in the pub and keep it there... so why donating the devs ? to pay them a salary for their hobby ? don't they get coins for free ? are no coins reserved for them ? or are the investors just here to pay (donating) for their hobby ?

Opening an ANN page on bitcointalk, providing updates, applying for new exchanges, and still only for the purpose of creation ? (a.k.a a hobby ?)
When you start something, there are many more tasks to be fullfilled, and one needs a strong figure to lead the process, which means not only focussing on the fun and known tasks, but also working on things that needs to be done.. advising investors to go in and do their own marketing is like asking a stranger to walk your dog.
hero member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 515
Coin Mage
Agreed. I was curious about the business side of things ie marketing, adoption, etc, could a senior team member perhaps elaborate on the roadmap there?  Not much info on that on the website.

You mean the roadmap regarding marketing and adoption? That's because there is really no roadmap on these things. We don't have anyone who would "lead" this stuff. Jbg and Bryce are focusing on their core competence, which is development. Marketing and adoption are within the responsibility of the community, which is us!

You have to understand that SpectreCoin is not a company, like some other ICOs nowadays, that is targeting maximum profit and where you are buying "shares" when purchasing coins. That's not how this works. This is a community-driven project - the devs are paid by donations for their work. Of course they are morally attached to the project as well, but it's not really their job to make this a profitable business.

I don't think that this is inherently a bad thing... not all users want to be capitalized on by deciding to use a certain currency. We are developing a private payment method that is open for everyone to use. That's the purpose of this project - if you want to make the price go up or increase adoption, then maybe you should start some marketing on your own! We also have a Discord that is dedicated to exactly this purpose - consisting 100% of community members! You can join that group and try to develop a marketing and adoption strategy. You can find the invite link on the wiki page here: https://altcoinwiki.org/en/SpectreCoin#Project_links
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
i would soon like to invest in XSPEC and there would still be a question about pos.
how many coins do i need to stake and how high is the roi?

I have just earlier today started staking my XSPEC coins.
I should receive my reward in about 7 days. My question is, is it safe to restart my computer during this time or will it reset back to 8 days if I restart?

Both of you should take a look at this little FAQ that I wrote: https://github.com/bitcoinx2/crypto-intro-guide/wiki/Proof-of-Stake

The reward is 5% p.a.

Thanks, so just to confirm, my 541 coins would be about 1,55 per day?
541 * 1.05 / 365 = 1,55 XSPEC


541 * 0.05 / 365 = 0,074 XSPEC

That math correct? Because if it's so low I'm ditching staking because it's not worth it.

1. examine the FAQ Gandalf.
2. at this rate You will be charged 0.2 coins per day because of transaction 2.14 coins respectively, at 10 days You will receive dividends.
3. running a wallet on your computer consumes very little energy, but each new purse adds more stability to the system.
4. And if next year xspec will cost$1000? Are you sure you want to lose a potentially good income?.

$1000? I doubt that will happen. I don't think even $100 will happen.

$1000 is very, very, very ambitious to say the least. 100$ is doable imho, it would mean a marketcap of 2 bln. There are a LOT of coins in the top 30 which do not have the tech Xspec has, so I would say its certainly possible. Anything up to 200$ is possible, even this year, especially once stealth staking is out and Xspec will get massive attention.
member
Activity: 252
Merit: 47
Tho obviously not all xspec are staking, so you receive quite more than 5% atm.

Currently you can expect anything between 10 and 20%
member
Activity: 252
Merit: 47
when are we going to see some merchants accepting XSPEC? None of the biggest market places like dream market, tochka or wallstreet are accepting XSPEC. I like the coin and I trust it. I thin k it's time we put it to some use and break the monero monopoly.

Is there a list of places where I can spend my XSPEC?

Dude, why so impatient?

If we like to do ourselves a favour, stake 100% for the team! Worth it!

I am staking, however I find all this "hodling" and staking attitude really selfish. I'd like to keep my eyes on the prize. The prize being real market usage. A coin is not meant to be hold but to be spent. As a derivate trader would say, "the price is backed by the cash flow".

XSPEC is a functioning product as much as monero is, yet I have not seen a single store where it can be used. In fact we still don't have an sdk or e-commerce plugins for popular software to easily integrate xspec as payment provider., so there is little suprize that we are ignored.

Agreed. I was curious about the business side of things ie marketing, adoption, etc, could a senior team member perhaps elaborate on the roadmap there?  Not much info on that on the website.

Yeah, this is the the only grind I have with XSPEC. It's run in a very idealistic manner, letting the tech "speak" for itself, but not paying much attention to the business side of of things, of which marketing is one part of.

I still hope that with the staking donations, and the availability of vesion 2.0 (stealth staking in particular) the attitude / focus will shift or become more level.
full member
Activity: 230
Merit: 100
when are we going to see some merchants accepting XSPEC? None of the biggest market places like dream market, tochka or wallstreet are accepting XSPEC. I like the coin and I trust it. I thin k it's time we put it to some use and break the monero monopoly.

Is there a list of places where I can spend my XSPEC?

Dude, why so impatient?

If we like to do ourselves a favour, stake 100% for the team! Worth it!

I am staking, however I find all this "hodling" and staking attitude really selfish. I'd like to keep my eyes on the prize. The prize being real market usage. A coin is not meant to be hold but to be spent. As a derivate trader would say, "the price is backed by the cash flow".

XSPEC is a functioning product as much as monero is, yet I have not seen a single store where it can be used. In fact we still don't have an sdk or e-commerce plugins for popular software to easily integrate xspec as payment provider., so there is little suprize that we are ignored.

Agreed. I was curious about the business side of things ie marketing, adoption, etc, could a senior team member perhaps elaborate on the roadmap there?  Not much info on that on the website.
member
Activity: 252
Merit: 11
when are we going to see some merchants accepting XSPEC? None of the biggest market places like dream market, tochka or wallstreet are accepting XSPEC. I like the coin and I trust it. I thin k it's time we put it to some use and break the monero monopoly.

Is there a list of places where I can spend my XSPEC?

Dude, why so impatient?

If we like to do ourselves a favour, stake 100% for the team! Worth it!

I am staking, however I find all this "hodling" and staking attitude really selfish. I'd like to keep my eyes on the prize. The prize being real market usage. A coin is not meant to be hold but to be spent. As a derivate trader would say, "the price is backed by the cash flow".

XSPEC is a functioning product as much as monero is, yet I have not seen a single store where it can be used. In fact we still don't have an sdk or e-commerce plugins for popular software to easily integrate xspec as payment provider., so there is little suprize that we are ignored.
jr. member
Activity: 64
Merit: 3
Tho obviously not all xspec are staking, so you receive quite more than 5% atm.
hero member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 515
Coin Mage
Hi guys, I would like to join this community. Is there a discord channel to which I can join?

Yes, the Discord invite link can be found in the ANN.


i downloaded the wallet today (my first wallet ever and its totally synced, i normally leave the coins on the exchange)
Can someone please provide me the answers to the following questions to help me further.

1 - the wallet is not staking because coins are immature. How long (on average) does it take to become mature ? (hours/ days / weeks / months ?)
2 - I can't find the location of the map/program on my pc where it's downloaded. if i buy a new laptop, how to transfer the wallet incl. coins to the new laptop ? (just copy paste the whole map?
3 - if its possible to transfer the program to another laptop, will the public key / private key / password for unlocking be the same ?

kindest regards,
snowboard

1: Maturity time is 288 blocks, as can be found here: https://altcoinwiki.org/en/SpectreCoin#Specifications
2: You could just send the coins to your new address on the new laptop.
3: If you want to copy wallet data directly, you have to copy the file called wallet.dat in the data directory. https://altcoinwiki.org/en/SpectreCoin#Data_directory


541 * 0.05 / 365 = 0,074 XSPEC

That math correct? Because if it's so low I'm ditching staking because it's not worth it.

Yes, that's how it is. 5% per year. That means you will get roughly 27 XSPEC during the year.


member
Activity: 158
Merit: 20
when are we going to see some merchants accepting XSPEC? None of the biggest market places like dream market, tochka or wallstreet are accepting XSPEC. I like the coin and I trust it. I thin k it's time we put it to some use and break the monero monopoly.

Is there a list of places where I can spend my XSPEC?

Dude, why so impatient?

If we like to do ourselves a favour, stake 100% for the team! Worth it!

yes, i think downloading the wallet and stake, and donate the earning to the team for marketing and promotion goals will defenitely be more beneficial for the price then staking and holding the coins for yourself...
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