Topic: ASICMINER Speculation Thread - page 30. (Read 808757 times)

So by having an air cooled DC with PUE 1.3 in the same WA state where the immersion cooled Datatank is located I get this numbers (I'm not sure why you multiplied with 5000kwh):

150kW needed to cool 500kW * 0.025$/kwh = 3000$ for cooling costs per month to cool 500kW. Please correct me if I am wrong.

No idea why are you comparing an immersion cooled setup at 0.025$/kwh with air cooling setup at 0.15$/kwh. Disinformation and misguiding at it's best.

Having a DC with PUE 1.5 show exactly how bad FC planned for the future of it's mining operation.

No, miners can have a performance boost in immersion cooling as you can see with the datatank somehow managing 0.6w/gh at the wall with BE200 compared to the most efficient air cooled system I've seen (open source BE) is only ~0.9w/gh.

PUE in hong kong is 1.5 average so a 500kw system would use 250kw for cooling. In reality the savings are even more than that because of the performance boost.

Aren't the all miners requiring the same power to function no matter if they are in immersion cooling or air cooled? Where are the savings coming from? From the difference of cooling with air versus immersion cooling.

Where is the 250kw from? That's the air cooling for 500kw?

Immersion cooling costs nowhere near $1-2/w. The datatank prospectus says about $0.45/w. Keep in mind that this was built in allied controls building so there are some cost savings. There would be another ~$0.1/w savings from not needing heatsinks/fans/cases. (There is also the savings from not needing to buy an AC but ill leave that out)

500kw * $0.35/w = $175,000 (I suspect it was less)

Electricity savings: 250kw *$0.15/kwh * 5000kwh = $187,500

Not sure why the immersion dc has not been filled with gen3 chips but I really doubt FC is simply choosing to wait.

From cooling electricity saving you mean. Please show me the math behind it. How much did the immersion cooling setup cost? Is it safe to say that it was around 500k$ and 1M$? If yes then you really saved that amount of money from the cooling in just a few months of use?

FC has gen3 chips in hand for over 2 months and he is unable to use the chips in the immersion cooled setup. Right now the setup is doing nothing right? Why? Can't FC use gen3 chips at that electricity cost?

You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

The immersion DC has likely already payed itself off in electricity savings alone.

Btw if there is zero vision for the future at $0.15/kwh what does that mean for all of your customers who will be forced to pay that much or more?

Nice. Wasted money on the immersion cooling setup which isn't being used for the moment. Absolutely no preparing for the gen3 immersion cooled setup and 0 vision of the future since FC build his immersion cooling in a place where power is $0.15/kwh. Let's see on what else will FC waste shareholders money...

I wish it was 500MW. It's 500kw and not yet converted to gen3 hardware. (As far as I know)

It was turned off last month because electricity costs were more than earnings. At $0.15/kwh I don't really see the 2 current AM DCs being viable for long.

Don't they have a 500MW (or KW?) immersion cooled setup ready? Actually it is filled with gen1 chips, but no idea why aren't they using with their gen3 chips..

lol try again.

Bitmain's new chips: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-bitmain-has-tested-its-28nm-bitcoin-mining-chip-bm1382-656461

Thinking AM prices about to tank more...Who would buy the AM chips now?!?!

There are a few reliable investments IMO. Take a look at RentalStarter for instance. A downside to this is that it's assets are valued in USD and not BTC.

Ontopic... I remember seeing a chart which showed AM's USD value, and it's been pretty level. It definitely has room to grow on the USD side of things, as AM doesn't have a monopoly on Chip Sales anymore (never had a monopoly, I know, but they were a market leader).

This is a fair point. The entire lack of other reliable BTC security investments is astonishing, mining related or not. Once AM starts driving revenue down through to the shareholders (of which AM/Bitfountain are majority owners), we could see another rapid increase in the share price. Given how long the wait has been for shareholders and how far the price has fallen, it may not be a bubble however a period of over-valuation is likely to transpire. Hard to imagine that a year since Gen1 and ASIC MINER still appears to be the only blue chip investment available to the public.

I am of the strong opinion that anyone selling at 0.2 BTC/share is going to be burned, very badly and very soon.

Its not about bubble. Its about business. AM is a company. Not some store of value or new technology like bitcoin.
Enough with that noobish attitude, making a first investment in bitcoin and assuming its all the same.
Its risky as well, but at this point, so are every assets listed on common stock exchanges.

That group of new forum members came in January, which there has been over 100k new members since the start of 2014. So yeah, the bubble will happen. The question is, what side will you be on when it starts moving?

Why do people think that there will be another AM bubble? It's posts like this that confirm there will be:

no, i really don't want to burn someone else. as stated before i lost around 9 btc with sinking sharevalue until now and what can I say...I will never get these back via div payout or selling shares but at least i managed to partly compensate the loss with trading the november bubble.
when i think of how easy and to a part predictable the trading game was i struggle to invest once again in AM just to eventually realize after another year of holding shares that i could have earned much more than the divs within a shorter timespan trading same amount of coins on the exchanges.

originally i also am in bitcoin with the intention of longterm investment but given the extra risk AM still has more the taste of " a golden ticket" and "all or nothing" for me instead of a reasonable investment worth the monthly divs.
sure, it could become one of the biggest players in the endgame but at the same time if btc thrives that far it will perhaps already have reached a value that easily outperforms any possible growth in company value.

these are just personal mindgames here and i admit i lack the economic knowledge to grasp the whole situation.
perhaps i'd also have other sentiments if i'd have got burned at trading in the past, but so far I'm doing quite well in that regard.

my only conclusion on this subject: the less volatile btc gets the more favourable investments in AM appear.

Yah I want one as well but they said in their question list that it made sense to sell chips then get miners to purchase it to create a bigger marketplace than going the otherway.

That and their energy ratios are efficient and would only be better with the new chips but the first part needs to occur first.
Still it would be nice for AM to mine scare away some of that 50% concern with Ghash

You're referring to future dividends, right?  I agree that future dividends aren't going to lead to ROI anytime soon, if ever, for the shares that sold at 4 or 5 BTC.  That's why I don't think the price will reach that high again.  Four or five years seems to be the most that AM shareholders are willing to wait for an ROI, which would equate to a dividend yield of 25% or 20%.  I think the people that were buying at those prices thought the dividends would just steadily keep getting paid at close to last summer's level until the block reward halved.  I certainly didn't expect to see dividends slow down to a trickle and then disappear completely.


This will also be the case if I buy a share now for .2 BTC and then .4 BTC are paid in dividends over the course of the next year.


I'm not sure how long it will take to reach ROI via dividends at current share price.  All I can do is speculate like everyone else.  Once dividends start getting paid again and we hear more from friedcat, we should have a better idea of what to expect.


If we have another phase of disappearing dividends and shrinking share price, I'll consider reinvesting more dividends and picking up cheap shares.  He's said that he plans to produce Gen4 and Gen5 chips, so it sounds like he's going to keep at this for a few more years at least.


So, it's time to burn someone else, huh?  Just waiting for another bubble and another sucker to come along and dump those overvalued shares in his lap?  I don't know if that opportunity is going to arise, but if it does I'll sell some shares too.  I think there's going to be a lot of selling pressure in the future from people in your shoes that are trying to recover their losses.  We'll just have to wait and see.


Different strokes for different folks.  I'm not a trader.  I prefer to invest for the long term, but would sell some of the shares that I've held for over a year if another bubble forms, but I'm not holding my breath.  (I pay a lower tax rate on long-term capital gains--shares that are held for over a year.)

This is why I hope they set up at least one behemoth 20MW datacenter with cheap electricity so that we can have steady divs until gen4.