Topic: ASICMINER Speculation Thread - page 29. (Read 808915 times)

But do you think those are separate AM farms (does it make sense to run them on different addresses, or do you believe one of them is AM?)
If those are franchisees, I don't think they will be doing solo mining. You have to get a continuous income in order to forward your proceeds to AM, franchisees won't solo-mine!

Great questions but if its at least 10% to 20% that is a very high hashrate
At present there are a few unknown solo mining addresses which vary from 1 to 5%
If the percentage they occupy grows larger then its already a significant amount of Bitcoins that will start coming in when the dividends restart, still its the most news we had in a while and we all know AM has a lot of chips that they can turn into mining units.

The announcement they will start building more miners as well means that the hashrate and percentage of the network will not be small.
Can check out the Dogie Guide
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5035154

Those are big words! What do you think:

- Will FC be able to keep his promise?
- What is the relative hash rate he is aiming at (2013 was a long year, and we've seen like 0%-33% hash rate by AM)

It's time to revive this thing




Documented history of AM's hashrate for the people who forget those things or weren't around back then.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkPdXsQFT-vIdHRVUjQ5Ql9BQWR6OENLMkhyUktUblE#gid=9




Wake up ^_^

Also No confirmed AM Mining address but a few unknown ID's to certain bitcoin addresses
https://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/hashrate/6m?c=m&r=week&t=a

https://blockchain.info/pools
https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs



With all the bullish sentiment included  

ok, thanks...

I should have just sold my shares at 0.8 BTC when I had the chance... Too greedy... (time after time)

There is not much information available to the public regarding the commencement of dividends for Gen3. The last update from FC on June 5th stated that it would take 1-1.5 months to sell out the current batch. It is believed that after this batch is sold the company will become cash-flow positive, a requirement for dividends to start once more.


Everything else is speculation. There is a new set of shareholder questions that were submitted to FriedCat on July 1st. When those questions get answered is anyone's guess, however that should bring clarity to your question as it is on everyone's mind currently.

i'm not following this stock closely (because my investmen,t is low). Do you guys have any prediction/ETA on dividents?

Hey folks, I hate to have to sell at an obvious bottom, but I'm kind of forced to -- so I'm auctioning off my lot of 10 direct AM shares:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/10-asicminer-direct-shares-7-day-auction-663313

There's less than 12 hours left on the auction.  Thanks

There hasn't been a dividend in months and BTCT closed a while ago so their is no drip either
At least I don't think anywhere AM is traded had drip's set up.

Guys has been a very long time I don't get anymore shares from AM100 is that normal?

There's economies of scale involved. 3M sells the fluid to several industries, including to law enforcement agencies in small quantities to recover fingerprints from extremely sensitive surfaces like facial tissue. 3M's selling price for high quantities is much lower than in small quantities. Same for everything else, including building 2-phase immersion-cooling devices in large scale. Buying a hand full of power supplies is quite different to buying thousands directly from the manufacturer for example. Metal fabricators easily charge twice or triple for low quantities, because a lot of labor is involved when setting up and programming machines or even custom create new tools for fabrication of special metal shapes.

Further, the 3M study was using copper boilers in a simulator. The capability to achieve densities of 4kW in 0.2 liters is inherently already possible right away with current setups. But there is still no hardware which has such power densities (hence only the simulation). It's like squeezing 16 of the latest 250W GPUs onto a PCB the size of two post cards. That's one of the reasons why there is the confidence that this technology can be still used for so many more hardware generations to come, while many other technologies are almost maxed out already.

Actually, I'm curious about the average PUE of 1.5 in Hong Kong. May I ask where you've got the number from?

There are some very modern DCs with PUE of 1.5-1.6, but it's not the average AFAIK. It's the very best available after Immersion-2:
https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/focus/archive/2013/09/hong-kong-stock-exchange-builds-data-center ("many in HK running at PUE 2–2.5")

The various articles/studies I'm aware of (including above one) are actually pointing towards PUE 2.2 or even higher:
https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/focus/archive/2013/04/apac-data-center-survey-reveals-high-pue-figures-across-region ("average reported PUE is 2.42")

CLP (China Light and Power as Hong Kong's major electricity provider) has released at a data center symposium the results of their own survey in late 2013 with 100+ data centers that the average PUE is 2.2.

Hong Kong is warm even at some nights with more than 30C/86F, paired with 95%+ humidity which makes it very difficult to cool efficiently. So achieving PUE of 1.01 in HKG like for Immersion-2 is extremely low by any standards. This does not add to the discussion on comparison with US data centers, but it actually supports your case in terms of saved electricity costs with Immersion-2 even more.

DYI is the wrong way to do a 1MW immersion cooled setup. Not that easy as it sounds. I would definitely let experts handle this.

I see that the DataTank guys aren't selling the DataTank separately so I don't believe that the 500k is a real price. Maybe I will e-mail Allied Control to ask them about the price, but I'm 99% that their price will be much more (at least 50% more)


Yes I was talking about SP 28nm chips. Their future plans are unknown to me, but I remember that Bicknellski wanted to try that. Will see how that goes.

Yes I think you could get a datatank for about that price and that is exactly what their IPO is offering.

Even if you can't buy your own container from allied control for that cheap you can probably make your own for that price or even less. I somewhat doubt that allied controls 3rd try is the most cost/energy efficient possible with 2-phase immersion cooling. For example 3m was able to cool 4KW with only 0.2 liters of novec. If you could match that then you would only need 50 liters or $2,500 worth of fluid per MW.


I'm not sure how 0.6w/gh at the wall transformer for a datacenter is too much power.

I am assuming you mean using SP 28nm chips you could get 2.5PH and you would probably be about right. Question is why are they not taking advantage of this technology?

So if I get in touch with DataTank guys they will sell me a 1.2MW DataTank for 540k? That's a good price, but I really don't think it's possible for everyone.

Last numbers are closer to the reality finally.

Too bad AM chips need too much power for this difficulty. If we ignore hardware costs, then a 200k$ air cooled DC would beat AM chips in the DataTank. If I had the money I could easily fit 2.5PH in a 1MW immersion cooled setup at 0.4w/gh.

That is the average in HK. There are plenty of 1.5 PUE DC's in washington. It costs extra money if you want 1.3 PUE but just for fun let's imagine it wouldn't:

Air cooled: $200k(base cost) + $18,000/month

960TH * 0.8w/gh * 1.3PUE = 1MW

Immersion cooled: $350k + $18,000/month

1.66TH * 0.6w/gh * 1.01PUE = 1MW

Or

Air cooling

$0.21/gh at 1.04w/gh

Immersion cooling

$0.21/GH at 0.6w/gh



1.2w/gh is including cooling. (0.8 * 1.5 = 1.2 or 0.8 * 1.3 = 1.04)


It costs about $450k per MW and as I said earlier you are saving ~$100k on fans/heatsinks/cases/etc..

It's too much disinformation in your post. It makes me puke!

I thought 1.5 PUE is in HK, not in WA state. Misleading again!

You also compare air cooling for miners with 1.2W/GH with immersion cooling for miners at 0.6w/gh even if in your example you have 0.8w/gh miners for air cooling. What the fuck?

Also I just don't think that the immersion cooling is only 350k for 1MW. That's not possible unless a very big subsidize from somebody else. Nice misleading again!

Your calculations are not including the savings from performance boost.

Here are my calculations for a 1MW WA DC at 0.025$/kwh:

Air cooled: $200k(base cost) + $18,000/month

830TH * 0.8w/gh * 1.5PUE = 1MW

Immersion cooled: $350k + $18,000/month

1.66TH * 0.6w/gh * 1.01PUE = 1MW

Or

Air cooling

$24/gh at 1.2w/gh

Immersion cooling

$0.21/GH at 0.6w/gh

We can mode the discussion to the Datatank thread if you wish.

You haven't replied where are the electricity savings coming from exactly because I still don't get it.

I'm not saying $0.15/kwh is bad. I only said that it's not fair to compare different setups and different power costs to justify a non-existent savings of 200k$.

Let's recap.

1MW WA DC at 0.025$/kwh:
- air cooled: ~18k$ for the power and another ~5.5k$ for cooling= ~23k$ total
- immersion cooled - ~18k$ for the power and another ~200$for cooling = ~18.5k$ total

A 4k$ saved with the immersion cooled setup for an investment of what? At least 500k$? Nice use of money!

Is this the datatank thread? I thought we were talking about the immersion DC in hong kong.

Of course if FC had access to a $0.025/kwh DC he would have used it.

And even at $0.025/kwh you would save ~$0.2/w per year from immersion cooling so it would pay off in less than 2 years.

Also the tanks don't depreciate in value and can be reused for next gen hardware so even more savings.

1.5 PUE is the average for hong kong. And 1.5 PUE is not even bad for an air cooled DC in a hot climate. Spongebobtechs expensive high tech cooling DC only has a PUE of 1.3 iirc and electricity costs probably not much below $0.15/kwh. (considering they are charging $0.27/kwh..)

BTW why are you now saying $0.15 is so bad when only a week ago you were saying that it is completely viable for your customers?