Topic: Ballon d'Or discussion and odds - page 2. (Read 2827 times)

Cristiano Ronaldo for the very first time had a terrible season with his return to Manchester United ( Second Season ) He had a bad season and it didn't just end there, it extended to the FIFA World Cup Competition.
Some Portuguese players refused playing the ball to him and same as the coach, it not a one man game I know, but a player like Cristiano Ronaldo shouldn't have been treated that way.

Ballon d'or or whoever is in control did the right thing. Ronaldo never came close to even being nominated. He won five times and that's enough for him.
Shout out to Lionel Messi for he really merits that Ballon d'or.

the guy played for a shitty team, he doesn't have superpowers to give skills to the other players on that team, so what he did was play well as he always did, but even so it would be impossible for him alone on the field to beat the other good ones teams in that league. If Messi continued playing in Europe and in a great team it would easily be visible how he is a great player and deserves this award. When people look at Messi winning this award, they often make comparisons with Ronaldo or Haaland, but I think they shouldn't be making those comparisons. because I believe that the juries took into account the past and current context in which all these players find themselves and how they are influencing where they play and what kind of results they have brought

Messi when he arrived at PSG he visibly contributed a lot to the team, the quality of his passes and how well he can move around the field was visible. He is the type of player who, when he gets the ball, can do wonders on the field, he is not just a player who scores goals like Ronaldo and Haaland, Messi's style of play is like Ronaldinho. Both players have enormous talent on the field and were able to make their teammates receive passes well and move well on the field when these two players picked up the ball. Haaland and Ronaldo have great talent when it comes to scoring goals and I am of the opinion that this year the Ballon d'Or should have gone to Haaland and not Messi

Ronaldo itself wasn't include in Ballon d'Or nomination when he play very good in Manchester United and Al Nassr, but FIFA choose Messi over Haaland, so it's really clear FIFA like Messi and hate Ronaldo.

Well this is not really about if Haaland won it would end Messi and Ronaldo debate, Messi fans will keep saying Messi is better since he own 7 Ballon d'Or while Ronaldo only own 5 or Haaland is only own 1.

This is where you mixed it up;
You mentioned different years, but was talking about the exact same year.

The rest of your argument is just you sharing your personal opinion and trolling, so no need pursuing the argument with someone who is not objective.

- Jay -

With all due respect for Messi , I think Haaland should have take this one because it's been almost a decade since young players no matter what they achieve and they do on the pitch , they cannot beat Messi at all and this year even if he won WC , he had no other achievements besides that as he had a poor season in Ligue 1 and then he made a very low transfer to Miami so I think it's fair to say Haaland was twice the man for Ballon D'or than Messi was this year.  .

He should also slice that Ballon D'or in half and give the other half to Martinez because without his leg , Argentina would have clearly lost the final.

Its not about Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi fans but depend on the winning Balon D'Or performance last season and all his contribution for his club and national teams. No doubt with Lionel Messi achievement winning FIFA World Cup 2022 but depend in year his performance not really fantastic such as Erling Haaland won treble winner with Manchester City. Comparison Messi's achievement is too far with Erling Haaland success become top scorer not only di Premier League as most compete league and Haaland become top score in Champion League. Did you think fair with one month performance in FIFA World Cup 2022 loss opportunity with Erling Haaland have consistent performance in one season?

I think Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo will not stop debate if the winner of Ballon D'Or this year Erling Haaland

I agree with you. Unfortunately, currently the people who criticize Messi the most and feel they don't deserve to win the Ballon D'Or are Ronaldo fans. For me, when Ronaldo fans express their disapproval, it's not because they want Ronaldo to get the Ballon D'Or. They only hate Messi because Messi is Ronaldo's rival. I don't like people like that. I would rather City fans or neutral people discuss this season's Ballon D'Or and not link it to Messi's previous few Ballon d'Ors.

Actually now we have to eliminate the classification of Messi or Ronaldo fans in this case because Ballon d'Or does not only refer to these two players even though they will always be associated but in this case you always think that those who do not recognize that Messi currently deserves Ballon d'Or are fans of Ronaldo. let's stop justifying it like that because in the end if it only focuses on what is always associated with these two players, then all comparisons are only to Messi and Ronaldo.

This season for the Ballon d'Or is not really liked and I am one of the people who do not like this because in my opinion the decision is not really worth it if it only makes the world cup the main benchmark. It's not that I don't like Messi and I'm a fan of Ronaldo because in the end the fact that Haaland is currently more deserving is indisputable and with Messi's re-election will obviously invite a lot of reactions for now.

You're correct but what happened to the name Angel Di Maria? He was also a vital player and of the FIFA World Cup Competition Win for Argentina. Against France, during the finals, he was the key to the first tow goal but his importance and contributions are not being talked about. I guess he was not even part of the list of players nominated for the Ballon d'or.

That said, Lionel Messi is an exceptional player, Dutch legend Hendrick Yohan Cruyff former player and manager made the prediction of how he will win the most Ballon d'ors and here he is doing as predicted even if this seems rigged or biased.
Congratulations to him once again. He deserves it!

I'm a Cristiano Ronaldo's fan but when it comes to football braggings about Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel who to me are the best two players who's ever graced the beautiful round leather, I'm always not sentimental with my opinions.
Lionel Messi helped his country lift the FIFA World Cup last year December after the fifth time of trying. He wasn't just any random member of the Argentina squad that won the WC trophy but was the best player of the tournament and that's why I think he deserves the Balon D'or award he got on Monday. As far as football is concerned I can't say there's anyone among them who's better because they're have their different football records and moments.

Stop lying, I’m not writing about one year (or tournament) when everything can be attributed to randomness. There is a whole period from 2008-2012 when Xavi and Iniesta achieved their greatest achievement - two European Champion titles in a row and a World Cup. Can you name teams that achieved the same? This is the real magic and legendary achievement and breaking of records.

At the same time, Messi failed at the World Cup and was an ordinary player at the America's Cup, you can come up with different excuses but these are simple facts.
Thus, during this period, both Xavi and Iniesta were 1000 times better than Messi, but they received zero Ballon d'Or, and he received 4  


These stories have already been discussed here: when the team won, it was Messi’s merit, when it lost, it was not Messi’s fault   Cool story.


You can write all the stories and absurdities you want, but you can’t escape the facts: Xavi and Iniesta did great without Messi and achieved a legendary achievement, but without them he first failed, and then could not be above average. I suppose now you will write anything about any other year but will you ignore 2008-2012?  


In a team sport it is very difficult to separate the team from the individual, but here is a rare case when this is possible: everyone we are talking about played in the same club, but in different national teams. And the fact is that without Xavi and Iniesta, Messi was just a gray player, did not stand out at all, while Xavi and Iniesta achieved something legendary.

And that's not all: Messi had phenomenal goal statistics in those years while playing for Barcelona, he scored something like 80% of the club's goals +- and scored almost a goal per game. Seems incredible, right? (I'm speaking as a Messi fan haha). But the most incredible thing (for Messi fans) is that he was completely replaceable.

Villa scored 5 goals in 7 games at the 2010 World Cup (first place in the list of scorers). At the 2008 European Championship, Villa scored 4 goals in 6 games (sole first place in the list of scorers). If we take the qualifying rounds for the World Cup and the European Championship, Villa has stats of 18 goals in 21 games.

Does this statistic remind you of anything?   Whose merit here do you think is greater: Xavi and Iniesta or Villa (who apparently should have received all the Ballon d'Ors in those years)?
Fanboys gives a paradoxical answer to this question: Messi  
But the facts remain facts: Messi was the player that was replaceable by almost a random player.

Messi is an exceptional player and he was really instrumental to Argentina's success in the world cup but the truth be told he did not deserved the Ballon D'or. With or without this Ballon D'or, Messi would have still gone down in the history books as one of the best footballer of all time, FIFA didn't have to cook up stats to favour their golden boy. I could beat my chest and say that out of the 8 awards he won, he did not deserved 2 of them, the one that FIFA denied Wesley Sneijder and this one.

You are confusing the exact same year, 2010. Your entire focus seems to be on the world cup so I assume that is the year you are talking about.
Stop mixing reality up to suit your agenda.
Then explain what you mean by "stronger"? I have already mentioned that reality is not what you think but what it is. So you do not simply say team A is better than B and that becomes it.

Also, did those corrupt officials score the goals and create the assists he made?
Did they break the records he broke and create the magic he did on the ball?

Totally different National team sides. Your points are really showing you to have a poor perspective of football.
Spain had a complete team at the time and had a great manager. Argentina on the other hand simply had lots of good attackers but not a complete team.
Messi is not a national team, neither was Xavi or Iniesta, and as good as any player was they need a system to function.

You are the one repetitively comparing Xavi and Iniesta to Messi and linking the glory days of Spain. If I wanted to indulge your ridiculous argument, I will say Xavi and Iniesta failed at 2014 world cup, while Messi got to the final and won the golden ball. But it still balls down to the team, Spain at that time had reached an epoch and could not go beyond it till they had a change in system.

Monstrously is a heavy word, does not fit anywhere in this conversation really.

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Answer one question honestly, Do you think personal achievements are determined more by "personal" performance or team performance?

- Jay -

Exactly! Plus Sneijder, Forlan and others who in different years were stronger than Messi, but they did not receive a prize, but he did. That's right - Messi is an ordinary player who was promoted by corrupt officials.
It’s good that you talked about reality, because it was in reality that Xavi and Iniesta won the World Cup and two European Championships in just 4 years (a legendary achievement) and Messi failed without them.


Yes, yes, you can repeat all this many times, but why can’t you explain what happened in the period 2008-2012? Xavi, Iniesta and Messi have the same achievements at the club level, and are absolutely cosmically different at the national team level. At the same time, Messi collected all the awards even though he was monstrously worse than Iniesta and Xavi.


Better yet, ask what his contribution to PSG is  PSG before Messi: semi-finals and finals of the Champions League, and with Messi, elimination in the 1/8 two years in a row. But they will tell you how many assists he made in the game with Claremont 

So, this is what Messi fans logic, when people are criticized Messi, they automatically compare or discuss about "Messi and Ronaldo" which assuming people who don't like Messi are Ronaldo fans lol.

I check Inter Miami position in MLS, currently they're in 14th position from 15 teams! what is this guy contributing to Inter Miami?

I was actually no longer interested in this event when there was more than one robbery that occurred and at that time Lewandowski was the real winner. This event can be manipulated and for some reason there are still people who believe that it is an appropriate award when there are players who deserve it more. Journalists have full power in determining the winner of the Ballon d'Or each year, it's just that their choice is a bit strange.

I think journalists who vote on the Ballon d'Or results should have their credibility questioned in making their choice and they should be competent people in their field but they can't tell who is more deserving. Anyway, I love how Messi and Ronaldo compete every year but I think their era is over and it's time for another young player to take over this award.

You need to understand that this ballon D'Or is not determined by how many goals a player scores in all competition but it is determined by the overall performance of a player while on the pitch and his attitudes and behavior during his play. If you can assess all these criteria you will understand the reason why Leo Messi won the balloon D'Or as he is a player that comports himself whenever he is on the field of play and even off the pitch so this balloon D'Or decision wasn't based on Argentina winning the world cup but it was on his personal performance as a player.

Moreover, the balloon D'Or decision involves a voting process by which every football association across the world, national team coaches and captains, football specialist journalists from each countries, so the decision is unanimous.

The main reason Erling Haaland didn't win the Ballon d'Or is because he has not won any major team trophies yet. You know the Ballon d'Or takes into account individual performance but it also heavily considers team success. Yes, Haaland was a major part of Manchester City's success last year truly but the Ballon d'Or tends to value the Champions League and world cup more highly than other domestic trophies. And again, the voting for the award took place before the end of the season, and didn't consider the Premier League, FA Cup, or League Cup wins which are the Haaland major trophies won last season. It's obvious that the Ballon d'Or is given to the player who receives the most votes from a group of journalists, coaches, and captains from national teams. So, it's a subjective award and it doesn't necessarily go to the player with the best stats.

Actually, Messi has been such a dominant player in the sport for so long and it's amazing to see how he continues to evolve and improve his game but that doesn't dispute the fact that he's a FIFA boy. He's definitely FIFA's favorite.

So did Sergio Busquets, so did Pedro, so did Pique, so did Puyol, so did David Villa (after he joined).
You are yet to explain how Xavi and Iniesta are personally better players than Messi. Football is not based on your perception, but on reality.

Messi has won 3 balon d'ors without Xavi and Iniesta and 2 without Barcelona.

- Jay -

Leo Messi winning his 8th Ballon d'Or have ended the GOAT debate and Ronaldo fans are not satisfied, some consider it as rigged awards forward to the Argentina international. I've lost interest in Ballon d'Or award long time ago, since the very day, FIFA robbing Robert Lewandowski from winning the award. It makes no sense to me, watching Leo Messi winning Ballon d'Or 8 times, whereas there are other outstanding players that did exceptionally perform really brilliant in games, I just remain mute regarding concerns about the whole instance.