Topic: BetcoinPoker.com Betcoin.ag-Big Tourneys-BONUS-Freerolls, Ring Games, Real Poker - page 66. (Read 367790 times)

I had to come share my experience with Betcoin Poker. There is no better place to play online and their VIP program is the best. I absolutely love it there. I spend alot of time and hard earned money here. Even though i was a naysayer at first, now i fully support the site and its workers as I know they will take care of us in every possible way. All you have to do is be patient with them and they will keep it real. Good work Support Crew!

Ftwbtc, who are you?

Like Betcoin Andrew - you question why I'm still playing at betcoin.ag and suggest playing somewhere else. 

This confuses me because I've made it pretty clear I do play on several other sites.  It's been over a month since my last session included Betcoin.  They have also banned my account and IP.



I explain in detail that I have been underpaid rakeback and went through hell trying to get it fixed.

Your response:



When I go to look at your post history, I see you've signed up for account in June 2014 and made 41 posts since.

Your first post was not endorsing Betcoin, but was a response to qualify for a Betcoin promotion.

Every other post you've made since June 2014 has been to compliment Betcoin, or defend them against criticism. 

Would you mind disclosing the motivation behind all these posts?  Have you received anything for making them?  If so how much?

Regarding your status pts not getting updated, I don't know what to tell you other than yeah, there is prolly something wrong since since it appears I've gotten my points credited. Not sure if that's any help, but yeah...

As far as live chat not being helpful for you, that is definitely different from my live chat experience. When I had an issue with points, the agent went and looked into my account while in chat with me and did find that I was owed points which were subsequently credited. Not right then and there, but she referred it to someone else, idk who exactly, but it got taken care of.

Anyway, I guess I lose the bet. I owe you an ice cream sandwich.  

Seriously though, I do hope you get your issue resolved happily.

Interesting post (all of it!), and it rings true with what I've seen of how they operate.

From DarkDays' post, it seems like the simple answer is that they pay you rakeback only on the share of the rake that they receive, and with the network games that's not the same as the amount you pay.

The obvious solution to this is to make that information public. Currently the VIP page simply says:


It doesn't say that if you play on the network games you only get half of that amount.

I expect there's a similar unwritten rule about not getting status points if you take the table-starter bonus, which is why I didn't get paid for that session I played.

I waited. Nothing was added to my status points last night either. The points are simply not paid.


I wasn't trying them because they have told me before that they can't look at accounts and are not really support. They're more like a babysitting service.

But since you bet me, I decided to give it a try:



How much were we betting?

You should all play where you enjoy playing.  Quite frankly, looking at the time some of you spend on here if you put that into something productive you could actually provide some type of value.  I enjoy my experience on Betcoin and get nearly 150% rakeback on my play.  There is no other website online offering this for poker play right now.  I also play on ACR if there is an issue with Betcoin but the value is far less where I get about 33% rakeback.  Also, I get the same amount of rakeback from tourneys on ACR as I do on Betcoin so the value for Betcoin combined with the community and the other activities, sportsbook, dice, and casino makes it the best place for me to play.  I see hundreds of people playing at Betcoin everyday and only the same 3 people complaining.  Why not just focus your time and play somewhere else?

I've been trying to keep up with all that you've been trying to point out.  Some of it is very complicated, some of it can be contributed to the sites "growing pains," and some of it is probably just frustration.  This is what I know: when I satellite into WPN tournaments on the MAIN network skins, I do get a rakeback--even if I satellite into them via freerolls. However, here's the problem: the Winning Poker Network has a very complicated structure within in it's own network.  On their main skins, their fees are distributed differently...they spend quite a bit of their revenue sponsoring their big tournaments and promoting the network.  This is where it gets complicated: Betcoin is in the WPN hierarchy in a very different manner than the main skins.  Betcoin's players have the advantage of playing in the Winning Poker Networks pool of players, but the fees generated from those tournaments are controlled by the WPN for allowing us access to play in their pool.  So, the distribution of fees and the way they are calculated and distributed in terms of rakeback gets convoluted.  Each new skin in the WPN negotiates its own contract, sorta speak, so there's a very confusing hierarchy among the several skins. 

I understand your frustration completely....rakeback is a big concern to any serious player in regards to calculating their ROI and managing their bankroll.  However, having the advantage of playing in a player pool which is consistently dropping huge overlays in their tournaments is worth that confusion when calculating the value of your buy ins.  It's a trade off....see.  When we pay $540 to get into a tournament that has a $200,000 overlay, we are getting an extreme bargain!

Anyway, Betcoin is very generous with the funds they receive from the fees generated from their own player pool.  Just do some quick calculations and consider the overlay that's dropped daily in Betcoin's exclusive tournaments....that's value!

Yes, you have some very valid and serious concerns.  I just think that you're not considering the complicated relationships that exists between the several different skins and the network.  The aspect that makes Betcoin unique among all the skins is that it has two distinct pools of players (advantageous to us) which complicates matters in many ways and some answers are too complicated to state simply.   Think about that some....

TIP: When you're deciding what network skin to play which specific tournament....take into account the
       complications mentioned above and play on the skin that will give you the best value.

Not paying RB on tournaments you've sattied into is horrible and 100% incorrect (obviously).

I am one of the players they mentioned as having had their RB explained.  Their explanation is "even though we never say it anywhere, we only give you half of your promised RB from WPN MTTs and SNGs".  Now, this makes sense (since they don't get 100% of the fees paid) but they never say it anywhere and treat you like garbage if you question why they are shorting you money. 

This is my main problem with Betcoin...if they just explained things upfront and didn't lie about things everything would be fine.  But since they start off being deceptive, whether intentionally or because they lack knowledge, and then compound it by being vague and lying to cover things up, it's just a rabbit hole that they can't seem to dig out of.

The way Betcoin dealt with my missing rakeback and status points was the hair that broke the camels back for me.

I opened the ticket on Sept 1st, but had a feeling I wasn't receiving the the full vip rewards for several weeks.  It's just one of those things that's too easy to put off till tomorrow...

A few days later I got first response, informing me that there were no issues and I was getting paid appropriately.


Betcoin William
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I doubt they even knew this was how their system had been working this way all along until they realized they they would have to deal with me some way other than simply ignoring me.

I still think this is a really stupid policy - but I'm going to stop myself from dwelling on how illogical it is to have such a policy without an apologetic explanation involving technical issues.


I immediately let them know that this only answered for SOME of the rake back I thought I was owed - not ALL.

I provided screen shots, I bumped ticket, I asked them about it in chat, private chat, I made threads...

Since mid October they have treated me the same way you see them treating me here in this thread - other than an occasional passive aggressive insult, they refuse to acknowledge my existence or anything I say. 

My shark scope showing the non satellite tournaments I played which were completed on 10/11

http://www.sharkscope.com/#Player-Statistics//networks/WPN/players/twitchyseal


Rakeback received early morning 10/12



Deleted thread Betcoin deleted from their forums (mostly regs discussing the fact that rake back is wrong every time they independently check it, but even when faced with math Betcoin won't budge from their "rakeback is right, you are wrong" stance):

http://snag.gy/q0PmI.jpg






After blantantly ignoring me for nearly two weeks, Andrew offers the following:



Obviously I got ignored after bumping ticket.




Just want to remind anyone who made it this far-  I didn't make this post just to prove I got screwed out of some rake back (although I wouldn't blame you for assuming so).  I made it because I want everyone to look at the way Betcoin handled this issue and compare it to some of the other issues I've brought up; like the BBJP issue, the No Collusion Freeroll  - how they handle cheaters in general, even how they have behaved in this very thread....if a casino as dishonest and  non-transparent (opaq?) as Betcoin is able to grow and succeed long term - it will lower the standards of future businesses within the industry.  Unregulated doesn't mean unaccountable. 

I'd be happy to discuss anything I've posted in any way shape or form.  It's tough trying to say everything I want to but avoid wall of text boringness that nobody will do more than glance at...

Great! the app is back to normal. now we have a lot of more game options. People are going back to betcoin again! Love the freerolls!

@Dooglus

I said I wasn't going to speculate, but looking closer at this:

My guess is that your account hasn't updated your points yet for the most recent period. Maybe wait and check again after 14 hours or so from that last time stamp.

*Addendum: why not just try live chat, what have you got to lose. I'd be willing to bet they'd be able to clear this up within a few minutes of connecting with an agent.

Hmmm... well I won't speculate on what might be going on with your account if that is the case with no change in your status points and betcoin points and just leave that to the betcoin.ag rep(s)/support.

As far as live chat support, it seems my experience is different than yours. Just this month, I've used live chat support on two seperate occasions to look into a withdrawal issue and a SP/RB issue and both times the reps went into my account looked at was going on and resolved both issues with detailed info. So yeah, idk in your situation what happened. But Good Luck in any case.

Thanks for your reply.


Right, and I am not. My status points this morning are exactly the same as they were last night. I got nothing from the overnight run. Nothing shows up in "events" around 6am (like it does every other day at around 6am) and my status point count didn't change.

I took a copy of my status last night, and again this morning:


Live chat support has previously told me that they can't look at user accounts, and that I should make a ticket. But tickets never get looked at, and posts on betcoin's own forum get deleted, so I guess this is the best place. At least here the post will be seen and not deleted.

The comp points (betcoin points) and status points you earn from your regular VIP rakeback level play are usually credited daily.

The comp points you earn from table starter bonus is credited soon after you leave that table. For me it shows up after a few refreshes of my wallet page. However, the corresponding status points that you earn from the table starter bonus will get added to/credited at the time your regular VIP rakeback is done.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that there is no "poker_table_starter" designation for the status points you earn like there is for the comp points you earn from the table starter bonus and therefore you don't see it on the event page. Your VIP status points on your events page should include your regular status points + table starter status points. Ie, they arent shown/designated seperately like they are with the comp points.

Basically what I'm saying is you do get credited the status points you earn from table starter bonus, but at a later time when your regular VIP status points are next updated. And it isn't shown seperately. At least that's what I've observed.

Now if you are missing/not getting your status points at all, then that's prolly a different issue your having. If so, it would be faster resolved with live chat support bc they will actually go in and look at your account right then and there and see what's going on exactly.


*EDIT: added bolded

Can you explain how the poker rakeback and status points works please?

Usually I get both of them paid overnight, but last night I got neither.

Yesterday I only played one session, and I qualified for the table-starter bonus on it.

I got paid the bonus about an hour after ending that session, but didn't get any status points at all.

Here's a screenshot of my 'events':



You see 6:36am 2 nights ago I got rakeback + status for my previous day's play, but there's nothing around 6am last night.

Is this a bug? Or do we not get status points if we are getting the table-starter bonus? I was expecting that the "immediate" bonus was 100% rakeback, and overnight I'd get the extra 10% rakeback plus status that I usually get, but that didn't happen.

I'd appreciate an explanation of what happened. Thanks.

Edit: SMG wanted me to confirm that I am the same 'dooglus' as on betcoin.ag. I am.

cjmoles thank you for playing with us and we appreciate your feedback anytime.  Good luck on the felt!  There is tremendous value in the Daily Coin as well!

Yes, fun tourney....I took a bad beat but I did manage to collect one of the bounties so positive ROI on the day so far!  Now I need to concentrate on qualifying for the Daily Coin.  Best valued tournament on the site!!!  And it plays every day!  Just can't lose here!  SMILE

Thanks for your support ftwbtc1.  The tournament again was a lot of fun.  We certainly plan on building out the Betcoin specific tournaments further out in the future and will certainly take your advice into account. 

This was fixed 5 hours ago:  https://www.betcoin.ag/comment/44937#comment-44937

When you first tried there was an error but that error has been fixed.  Thank you for the update!

Damnit, I just missed ITM on the BitcoinTalk tourney and just missed that bounty on Rapacious!  Fun tournament, I see the layover but you should really try to focus on building out Betcoin specific tournaments maybe with a lower GTD amount.