Topic: BetcoinPoker.com Betcoin.ag-Big Tourneys-BONUS-Freerolls, Ring Games, Real Poker - page 68. (Read 367790 times)

OK, but my point is that the BBJ pot was filled up by paying customers, and so shouldn't be distributed to freeloaders.


It feels like I'm late to the party and there's nothing but sloppy seconds left.

I think it's actually more likely that most of the jackpot pool was contributed by low-midstakes grinders.  I know of a handful that were approaching geting close to 500k hands as of mid summer.

While higher stakes players certainly pay more rake per hand, its not directly related to the stakes.  A 100NL player may be averaging 6 or 7 chips in rake/100 hands and be able to consistantly play 9-12 tables while a 1000NL player could be averaging 18-20 chips/100 hands but rarely get any action at more than 2 or 3 tables.

This is all besides the point though.

It's a breath of fresh air having you here, I was hoping you'd make it through some of my walls of text tbh, thanks for responding. 

I'm pretty new to the site, but it seems obvious to me that the bad beat jackpot pool is to be used for funding the bad beat jackpot, and nothing else. Using it to fund freerolls is just wrong. It was contributed mostly by high rollers (the site's most valuable asset) and shouldn't be given away to the hundreds of random new users that freerolls attract.


I wouldn't take it personally. I started playing at betcoin a few weeks ago, immediately found a whole load of problems with the site and made a post about them. betcoin's response was that they would like to discuss the problems, but that I should make a support ticket rather than discussing it on the forum. So now my initial list of problems and a bunch more are on a ticket, being ignored.

I don't know if they're horribly understaffed or just don't give a shit, but I've never seen such poor customer support before.

Here's the tail end of the ticket. It includes a promise of a reply "in a few hours", made 8 days ago, and an odd request to "revisit the ticket", as if it was ever visited in the first place.

Hi Jessica,

No you didn't.

But even if you did return "most" of the funds, that's not ok. 

It wasn't your money, you should of returned all of it.

Dear Betcoin.ag,

Yes you did.

I don't have time to prove all of your lies are lie, but you won't get away with too many in a row.

Please stop lying,

Twitchy


https://www.betcoin.ag/collusion-soft-play-cheating-zero-tolerance-betcoin-poker
https://www.betcoin.ag/collusion-soft-play-cheating-zero-tolerance-betcoin-poker#comment-11099

I am absolutely certain that from March 2015 till August 3rd, 2015 (perhaps someone whos been around longer could verify the timeframe) that there were no terms for the badbeat jackpot.

Support refused to address the situation publicly, and privately they told several players (including myself) that even though there was a ticker in the lobby that kept increasing, and the hand histories were showing a fee for "BBJP 0.01", they were not - in fact - collecting an extra 0.01 per hand.

(I dont have evidence of support claiming they weren't collecting a fee - if anyone does PLEASE share it.  Betcoin will likely lie, please help me hold them accountable.  You can remain anonymous if you like, pm dooglus or anyone you trust if you don't feel comfortable sending it to me)


Naturally I did the simple math and explained they were mistaken.  They ignored me. (standard) And I just kept asking them over and over - louder and louder (standard).

Here's an example hand from May. ($1 = 1 mbtc)

The final pot ends up being $81.60 pre rake and BBJP.  The rake is capped at $2 and $0.01 is deducted for BBJP

Winner received $79.59


By July I think they realized that something had to be done. Their solution:




- This 10 BTC freeroll was open to ANYONE.  

- Betcoin was claiming to fund it with the Bad Beat Jackpot - I'd estimate there are 20-30 regulars who contributed over 75% of the jackpot.  The whole time haveing a 0% chance at winning it.

- There ended up being over 1000 players in the freeroll which ended up a disaster on its own due to them having rebuys for actual chips.  (not getting into that now)

- I can't help but speculate a very large chunk of the 10 BTC prize pool ended up getting seized due to multi account abuse.  

There was 60 minutes of late registration, unless they have changed anything, I don't think you even have to verify your email to create a new account.  Fill this form out and boom, you're back in:



It's almost as if they were begging players to come and multi account this thing.

In my opinion, they really thought this freeroll would solve their BBJP problem.  They never even considered that every satoshi that had been collected DID NOT BELONG TO THEM AND THEY SHOULD RETURN IT TO THE SAME PLAYERS.



I ended up bitching even louder, and getting some attention at least.  They decided to change plans.

NEW PLAN, POST BBJP FREEROLL:

The day after the freeroll they threw up some terms on the website and acted as if they had been there all along.

How did they get away with all this?  They just ignored the hard questions - rewarded players for spreading good things about them in the forums, and eventually everyone just kind of forgot about it.  Same as all the other issues.  


Additional evidence:

official announcement:

https://www.betcoin.ag/10-btc-gtd-pre-millions-freeroll-betcoin-poker


Screen shot of part of deleted thread.  Betcoin Paul justifying the BBJP freeroll, shaming a player for complaining (zzzz who disliked his comment is also moderator) and then claiming that the whole thing was a huge success just to rub our face in it.https://i.gyazo.com/7777f5fb51a7db3861b5b94c6d0724b5.jpg

From Original announcement:



Support claiming there actually has been a way to win the jackpot- they just disappeared and didn't know what they were, but they will be back soon.  (Translation, we're just going to pretend nothing happened and there's nothing you can do about it.)



Terms for Bad Beat jackpot as of August 3rd (they don't make sense)

https://www.betcoin.ag/support/what-are-rules-bad-beat-jackpot

if anyone is not familiar with BBJPs - here's an example of what you would expect when someone who understands poker and knows how to write clear and complete terms and conditions: http://www.theborgata.com/assets/webpage/PLAY/badbeat/index.html

Missing from Betcoin BBJP Terms:

- How is the jackpot distributed?  Usually the loser gets the biggest share, the winner a little less, and either everyone else at the tabl, or everyone else currently playing on the site divides up a portion, and the final portion is used to reseed.  


- What happens when the BBJP is dealt. Contact support?  Are the funds added automatically?  Is there a waiting Period?

- What does this table mean?



- Fee is "10" for 5/10+ ?  10 what?  10%? 10 chips? Per hand?  Who gets the jackpot share?

My point is, the terms are crap and obviously thrown together at the last second.

Yes, ranlo absolutely and we worked with all involved individually and collectively and improved from there.  Again, this was many months ago and nearly all of those players involved still play today and continue to bring in new players.  We remain extremely vigilant in combating collusion, abuse and any type of nefarious play at all times.

Thank you for your support!

Jessica

Ahhh, I remember that situation. That was, in fact, a long time ago. I remember a lot of community backlash both on the forums and on the site as a result, and Betcoin apologizing for the wrong action taken IIRC.

Official thread:  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/27122015-finale-bitcointalk-6-seat-no-limit-showdown-series-at-betcoinag-1243125

Hi Dooglus, it's because we did return most of the btc and we still ran a 10 btc freeroll to thank players for their support on top of returning funds.  This was many months ago and was handled expediently.  Ironically, most of the players were from a prop program which we no longer have, yet most of the players still play in. 

No we did not allow those players to play in the tournament but as you may know a bitcoin gaming website creates some unique challenges which we embrace. 

We have addressed all of this before and will happily address it again as we continue to move forward. 

Thanks guys!

Jessica

This is somewhat concerning to me as well. If someone is cheating, funds should be returned to those they were stolen from, rather than be thrown out in a blanket promo. And cheaters should be permanently banned -- if someone cheats and gets caught, they will simply be sneakier the next time around.

Here was the promotion in case you were wondering: https://www.betcoin.ag/10-btc-anti-collusion-freeroll-february-15-2015-password-inside

When you raise a decent question, you should expect Betcoin to ignore it and instead bump some very long 'promo' (as they've been doing with the 10mb tournament this weekend) to try to bury the question so people don't see it. 

It's a little concerning that you don't appear to have replied to any of his posts here. He seems to be raising valid concerns, but you leave them unanswered.

Did you really use 10 BTC confiscated from cheating players to fund a promotion instead of giving them back to the players they were stolen from? If so, how do you justify that?

Did you really allow those same cheating players to them play in the freeroll funded with the money they stole, after claiming to have zero tolerance for cheating? That sounds pretty crazy if it's true.

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