Topic: BETI: Bitcoin Exponential Trend Index and technical analysis - page 32. (Read 110414 times)

Thanks rpietila, for pointing that out. That is exactly my point, and that is what I wrote in my post #285, just few posts above yours. To me it is high time to revise the initial assumption of this simulation and that is why I was interested if OP could have a comment on that. I believe that just removing, say first two years, from the calculation would provide you with much more precise prediction. And, that is what I believe, is the real goal of this experiment, not to have an unrealistic expected value to goes through the roof. 

In theory, the current price should be the probability-weighted-average of future scenarios, discounted to the present with discount-rate.

In the very beginning of Bitcoin, we wonder how "nobody" realized that it could become a million times more valuable in 5 years? Why did sirius sell 5kBTC for $5?

A few answers:
- information not spread
- buying additional coins does not give a real-life edge (if you are broke and in a small probability make $20M instead of $10M not a big deal for most)
- discount rate is high, making a large payoff in the possible distant future be of little value now
- time sink/stress generator - many don't want to invest until it is big since while it is much less upside, it is also easier and safer (I refused to order a promising free energy device just because of the hassle. I can order it a few months later).

In practice, there was a time when log-linear trendline was the best fit to the data. Currently not too sure about it.

There is a diminishing return on profits when a large enough market cap is reached. But this means diminished risk of losses as well. If BTC reaches the $100 trillion cap which is required for it to dethrone fiat, the diminishing upside kicks in starting at 10,000 times higher price than current. Clearly this is still a better investment than most re:upside.

-1.5 is the next target? It's $411 now

Date:    30-Oct-2015
VWAP:    324.42
x:    1931
a:    0.00434
b:    -0.86297
Rsq:    0.82376
The day's expected price:    1843.97
Actual price / expected price:   17.59%
Log(Actual price / expected price)   -1.738
Price to break the -2.23 all-time-low   198.53
Price to break the +1.87 all-time-high   11937.60
Predicted date for today's price:    24-Sep-2014
Days ahead:    -400.28
Daily price rank:    406
   
   
(See OP for explanation)   
   
   
   
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=e+%5E+%28+0.0043410899563647++%28+number+of+days+since+jul+17%2C+2010+%2Fdays+%29+-0.862969560464771+%29   

And the analysis use straightforward extrapolation. There is a huge diminishing return on growth as you go up and reach a global market level of cap. Also there's the rule that whenever things go up, they will go back down. It might go back down to 270 or 280, or 320 if it raise to 400 but it will. A straitforward line upward is not going to happen.

At least not within such a short time. Maybe over 10-20 years.

This analysis use 1 day VWAP, so it has to be >320 on average.

Price to break the +1.87 all-time-high   11902.78

I thought -1.75 was around 320? Didn't we already break it?  Oh, and thanks for the updates! This thread is one of my faves

This chart is amazing. Thank you for uploading. If we get back to +1.5 that's close to 50k per coin? That would be a life-changing amount of money for most people on this board.

Probably this question was already asked in here back at the early days of this thread, but I will try to bring this issue into a discussion once again.
Whenever I am running simulation or an experiment, I am interested in a stationary process. Meaning the initial (warm-up) behaviour should not have been considered when talking about long-term trend. Have you tried to remove the first two years of data and redraw your charts? I am wondering if that would correct your expected values to a more reasonable levels, as for today it seems that the chart will be stuck in the -2 area even with slowly rising prices, and only a bubble-like event could bring us to -1 values, not to mention even the expected price.

You can look at a company in many ways.
What is its Balance Sheet worth (Book Value)?, most stocks trade at a slight premium to this, where stocks trade at a discount they are generally considered undervalued - or might be suffering from distress

What is the value of future profits? An equity can be considered to be the price the market will pay today for the present value of all future profits of the company.  ie the NPV of all future earnings, Companies that have low growth prospects trade on low multiples of current earnings, growth stocks tend to trade on high multiples of current or next years earnings as future earnings are expected to be growing at a large rate. In good terms P/E's and P/B's get inflated as the market expects a bright and rosey future - (prices in perfection) - in bad times the reverse.

Right now the equity and bond markets (all asset classes imo) seem to be pricing a very rosey picture in the face of severe headwinds from the global economy, but that doesn't mean a crash is going to happen imminently just that one could or may happen, and (again imo) the more it is delayed by "policy action" the worse it will be when it comes.

Given that there will be no big crash in the following 9 hours, it's very likely to break -1.75 today (30 Oct)

so basically for the average stock, the price of the stock (all the stock combined) is 35 as much as the earnings of [i assume last year] and 5 times as much as the book value (=networth) of the company?

But realistically you would expect t to be 7 times the p/e because you'd expect your investment to pay off in about 7 years, or to be roughly the same as the p/b because that's what the companies networth is (and usually if a company is doing well the networth grows, so you'll make profit anyway? But somehow the stocks are blown up beyond proportion and it would take decades for them to pay off at this rate, if not something were to happen in those decades which causes the stock to crash?

Price/Earnings and Price/Book Value

both different measures at looking at shareprice valuations

What does that even mean? P/e and p/b?

Well. I'm just a student and I don't have that kind of money.

I don't know how much you'd need to buy a house for rental or farmland, but I'd guess it's far more than my total networth, even if Bitcoin rises 10x, and I sure as hell aren't going to divest everything to put it back in the dollar economy, not even in assets.

Anything more accessable for someone who isn't already rich?

The assets you actually own (can hold/hide) never generate income, with the exception of skills.

In financial crisis, land is usually taken from those who cannot pay, so not from you who are prepared.

In war, land may be taken from you. So since this is a fear, land is cheap and war is a good time to buy land while understanding risks.

You cannot go to the crisis with income-producing assets only, because the crisis may anyway retain them unproductive. Crisis buffer should be liquid holder assets such as gold, silver and crypto.

Sell all financial assets where the "system" is the counterparty. Since there is no way for them to make good of their promises, they will probably screw you.

When there is a stock market crash and recovery, it may be a sign that the crisis has reached the turning point. But today's markets are manipulated to the core, and inflation is running rampant. average P/E= 7 or P/B = 1 are reasonable (currently both 5x higher).

Slightly off-topic but what other income generating assets do you recommend? Rental houses and farmland both fall under land property and can easily be taxed to hell and back in times of a financial crisis.

He's talking about stuff like owning rental properties in highly desirable areas. Or owning prime farmland and leasing it to farmers. These are things that are going to produce steady income every month with low risk. If you get to the point where you have so much money that earning 10% per year sounds great, then that's a great idea. (But most people on these forums are crumb-bum adrenaline junkies looking for 10x gains on their four or five digit bankroll.)

How do you start investing in those assets? Buy a real estate book or a book on farmland leases. This stuff can be pretty hands-off if you give a slice of the money to middlemen agents who manage the assets for you.

If there's a financial collapse, people still need to live somewhere and eat, right? So if you own housing, food-producing assets, some skills, and some unseizable crypto, then you're as protected as you're going to get.