Topic: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly" - page 48. (Read 108641 times)

 Guarenteed half the Bitcoin income the day after vs. the day before, give or take difficulty adjustment.
 100% guarenttee, no question about IF on that part.

 I grant there is a significant probability that the price of Bitcoin will climb quite a bit a month or two before the halfing - but with the way difficulty increases have been going since the introduction of the S7, anything older is going to be LOSING money long before the halfing if you have to pay more than 1-2 cents/KWH and afterwards it looks like the S7 (and Avalon 6 and probably the B-Eleven) will be unprofitable as well at that point.


 No, it's not CERTAIN - but that's the way the trend is looking and the way it HAS been looking for months now.


 I strongly suspect that the only PROFITABLE miners after the halfing will be the 14/16nm generation - though I also suspect if that's the case, that hashrate will dip quite a bit for a short while, *MAYBE* giving the one-previous generation a short "last gasp" of profitablility if you have VERY VERY cheap electric.

you got a point there...maybe that release was prepared not by them, but by a pr agency (in russian), then translated.
who knows...i can hardly imagine nano-size "engineers" moving transistors "by hand" on a chip, but could imagine normal size engineers doing it on a computer screen to optimize.

But VV and Niko are both more than proficient in English, so why would it be translated?

Oh, thanks, this is just bad translation. They probably meant that they tinkered with design and optimized every transistor position manually (bad reverse translation from the russian word that in this particular case likely means non-automatic a.k.a with nonzero input from the engineer).

no one knows yet unless you have a mill and then you can find out but your under NDA.  

According to what others have said .

my bad
You can find some thing out without a mill


I trust sidehack a lot !!!.


so well see .

 


Every time i see something about the halfing and how bad it will be. I LMAO . then think how does anyone know for sure. The answer is you don't unless your god, i don't see how it going to bad other then 12.5 less coins and the chip makers will adjust and in four more years it happen again, if bitcoins are still here.

I try my best not to comment on anything i see that looks negative but from time to time you can't .

what about the asics price?

http://bitfury.com/products#16nm-asic

Under the heading "Groundbreaking full-custom design".

I searched CEO blog post (keep calm and ...) with "by hand"-no results.
Care to give a link? Thanks
BTW, V. Vavilov is CEO, Punin is CTO

They probably meant the surrounding transistors, around the chip. 

It was mentioned in the CEO's blog that all transistors were laid out by hand.

not sure what you guys are talking about, but PR simply states "full custom design"

interestingly, for "all thumbs" in Russian good translation would be a literal equivalent of "without hands (бeзpyкий)" or "curly/bent/not straight hands (кpивopyкий)".
Google translate cannot handle the last one without some funny confusion.

 Hint.

 *I* was born quite a bit before the 1970s - in fact, I was already in the Navy by the "late 1970s".

 Gratuitous insults with zero factual basis just make YOU look stupid and make people tend to ignore anything else you have to say.


 
 You might want to keep "lead time" in mind - Bitmain certainly is, since they announced that they were already working on a 14/16nm design in the SAME ANNOUNCEMENT where they originally announced the S7.
 Doesn't mean they won't keep selling as many of their current design as they can while it's still profitable to do so, but if they were to wait to start designing the next generation like Avalon has already said they plan to do, Bitmain wouldn't have anything to compete for a long time.



 BTW - you STILL haven't addressed my question about how Bitmain (or whoever) is supposed to be competative to the 14/16nm gear after the halfing kills the profitability on anything less efficient.

 It's more about being able to move ENOUGH air to keep the radiators cool enough to dissapate the heat - we're not looking at direct air cooking which tends to need a LOT more airflow to work.

 Radiator on many common trucks or mid-to-high-power cars is designed to dissipate over 150KW out of about a 2 foot square area, for example - though that's when hauling a large load or accellerating hard or travelling at fairly high speed. Most of the time, the thing is loafing with the thermostat part-closed....

I, on the other hand, would put this to a combination of "figure of speech" and "language difference".

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C

One way of translating English "director" to Russian would be "pyкoвoдитeль", which in turn translated literally back to English would mean "the one that leads by the hand". In many Slavic languages the equivalents of English "by hand" and "manually" have much wider, figurative use. For example the title of this old thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/algorithmically-placed-fpga-miner-255mhschip-supports-all-known-boards-49971 "Algorithmically placed FPGA miner" could be translated to Russian and back to English as "Hand tailored (or Hand cut) FPGA miner". Somewhat more humorously, some not-that-well translated software documentation uses the above Russian word for the "device driver".

Even native English speaker constantly communicating with bilingual or multilingual people will subconsciously pick up their speech patterns and figures. My favorite example is: the equivalent of English "all thumbs" in several other European languages is "two left hands". Both of those phrases aren't meant to be literal, they are just figures of speech describing a person lacking in manual dexterity.

So my guess is that the PR blurb-writer picked up this hyperbole from the native speakers of Slavic languages who only know English as their 2nd language.

Edit: I've forgotten to add that the in my favorite example to cognitive adaptation is not only linguistic but also involves the associated hand gestures. The "all thumbs" is gestured by curling 8 non-thumb fingers at the knuckles to match the length of the thumbs. The "two left hands" is gestured with showing both hands with thumbs pointing to the left.

If you only use 25% of the chips, and sell off the rest, your NRE didn't change the cost at all. But your fourth of the chips are up and running before the other three fourths, so you get an edge on the diff rise caused by your chips. And if your markup on chips is at least 33%, you basically paid for your fourth of the chips from the profit of selling off the other three fourths, which means you recoup the whole investment up front and still get to mine on your fourth for just the cost of miner assembly and power. You do earn less and less as the rest of your chips (and everyone else's) come online, but your machines are already paid off and profiting by then.

And now your NRE costs make your chips 'cost' 3-4x more.


Which it isn't because you aren't the only source of chips, progress or miners, meanwhile you earn less and less of the network while the rest of your chips devalue for absolutely no reason.

 you actually trust that go for it ..   time will tell if we get any i hope to eat these words well see. . as i said I heard off till now when they came with that big container and no word on home miners etc. it just seems like they only want the big bucks. screw the rest.


don't try to show me different they have to. I did say that's how it's suppose to work and agree that is the way to do it, go slow we have time , but don't Agree  with how to go  slow  . but what right to sell those earning to some one. nothing is anyone's right to that extent,  right now im saving for one or two of these if they happen, not the container i have no place for it nor want one or could ever afford it and if i could afford one, I'm not so sure i would want one it might hurt the network, i do care more then about how much it makes.


cya  

Suppose you have a million of these ASIC chips.

You can build a thousand different miners using all million chips on your own but you will double/triple the entire network hashrate and make 1/3 of what you are making now.

However if you only use 25% of the chips, and slowly and slowly turn your hardware online, you are making 3x as much with 25% of the chips, and you can sell the other 75%. And since the difficulty is still low, you sell it at a high premium.

I am sure they did the math and realized it would be more profitable to sell some to the public then mine on your own solo.

yea if that's true , which it is, and that's how it's suppose to work but do you really think they will keep it up after they get what they want ? or even gonna do it ? or it's all BS there feeding us . The fact they stopped selling to the public at all is kind of question able after they got what they wanted then.  but what rights 100% of the theoretical mining earnings by selling the rights to those earnings . explain how they have that right if bitcoin are meant to be free and for everyone ,by free I mean not under one groups control,  i understand they have to make back what they put in to it but what rights. you either sell it or you don't, there is no in between in this case . and you can bet they were backed by paper money not bitcoins at some point and will be mostly from banks etc or they are Polly hoping to .

KNC, all over again. but this time with bitfury, I guess the good thing bitfury at least backs what they sell so far . why i don't believe them is a blog some one @ bitfury made about things that happen to his family years ago. if he really meant it then sell to everyone no one is asking for a free ride that i see here just a peace of the pie and are willing to pay a reason able price. he didn't and they will do what ever suits them and hurt the miners .  as a  few others said bitmain could have sold there S7 for 600 or even less and polly sold more and made more if they could have kept up with the supply and demand at a lower price but as it stands it seems they hard a enough time even at the beginning s7 price.and if bitmain buys into this crap, were done .

Sorry, i  just can''t resist saying what i think about bitfury any more to much stuff seems like lies at this point .

 Anyway, i can go on on bottom line is we will be very lucky to see any of it, if your not rich. for the rich it won't mater to much they just get richer .I knew a rich person once before he died my mom was dating it was nothing to him to lose 10 k or more,  he called it a inconvenience, left some of it to my mom, but his sister got control over it all, we got nothing, she got it all . not that we needed it .he had a few mill in assets .
 
CYA